Does Daniels Make Raji Expendable?

Bagadeez04

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Please don't overreact to this thread title...it's just a question.

Is Mike Daniels considered a player that can be on the field and be effective against the run? Or he just a guy to put in on sub-packages? If he continues to develop well, does he allow the Packers to think twice about giving Raji a blockbuster deal? I say this not because I think it's OK to let Raji walk, but because it seems there are so many players who will be UFAs after this season. They will be looking for areas with depth to cut guys loose (I would think).
 

JBlood

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I'd be surprised if Raji gets a "blockbuster" deal. He's playing solid, but not spectacular.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Don't think Daniels is really a running down guy but I think the combo of Daniels and a guy like Wilson/Jolly are better than Raji (cheaper too).
 

Shawnsta3

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I'm one of the biggest supporters of Daniels here. His pass rush skill was evident in training camp that first summer.

With that being said, he's not the same player as Raji. I believe a tandem of players could fill in for Raji if his asking price is too high as SunshinePacker said. (Jolly, Daniels, Boyd)

It looks right now as if Raji will be leaving us unless the market sours on him ala James Jones and Pickett is getting up there in age even if we do decide to keep him around. TT has a decision to make when it comes to DT/NT and I wouldn't be surprised to see a player currently not on this team starting there within the next two years.
 

TJV

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I love the way Daniels has progressed. He needed to add strength over the off season and that’s exactly what he did. Plus the harness he had to wear last season restricted him – along with the injury itself – and now that his shoulder is 100% we’re seeing the combination of his quickness and added strength.

If Raji leaves and a new “fat guy” isn’t added, someone will obviously line up for the snaps he was getting. But Daniels shouldn’t be asked to eat up blockers like Raji, Pickett, and Jolly are. They are a different type of DL. But the Packers play sub packages more than they play base (except against teams like the 49ers) so the better Daniels gets, the more snaps he’ll earn and he’ll be a “starter” (getting a lot of snaps) even if he isn’t on the field on the opponent’s initial offensive play. IOW, Daniels doesn’t have to make Raji expendable to be more important to the D.
 

HyponGrey

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SMH at the entire concept of this thread. Raji has transformed as a player, and is no longer a pass rusher He's disruptive and young, and will only get better at his CURRENT game. Pickett only has a few years left at NT, Jolly Wilson Boyd and possibly Worthy would be the ones making Raji expendable if anybody. Daniels, while he can play RE in base, will continue to be one of our Nickel rushers, where HE can excel. We're talking two completely different games/roles. It's obvious the staff want's to see Raji back, and however little the opinion of him is on this forum, Raji will likely garner a nice comp pick should we fail to reup him. I see little downside either way, save that purple is not a flattering color on large fellows.
 

B-ri

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Packers 2014 Unrestricted Free Agents:

B.J. Raji
Mike Neal
C.J. Wilson
Johnny Jolly
Ryan Pickett
Sam Shields
Jermichael Finley
James Jones
John Kuhn
Evan Dietrich-Smith
Marshall Newhouse
Andrew Quarless
Seneca Wallace
James Starks
Rob Francois

Some tough decisions will have to be made. The entire concept of this thread isn't something to shake your head at. Good players are going to be let go. There is a reason Raji wasn't resigned last offseason.

Now I agree that Daniels alone doesn't make Raji expendable, but a combo of two or three guys at a much lower price can do the trick. At the same time, that's also extra roster spots taken up, which TT values highly.
 

BorderRivals.com

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Raji gets no respect from people in this forum b/c he doesn't have the flashy stats. But, he has been instrumental to our success this season. His play in the middle is a big reason why we have a top ranked rush defense and why Hawk/Lattimore have had space to make plays. He eats up blockers, keeps contain, and able to make plays at the same time. It's an under-appreciated role, but a vital one to our team's success. I think he'll get paid well this off-season. And I think the Packers would be foolish to let him go. If we don't sign him long-term, I hope we franchise him.

And the posts about Daniels are dead on. He's a great sub-package pass threat. Let him thrive in that role.
 
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If there's several 330 + pound Nose-tackles out there that we can pick up to take over for Raji and Pickett after this year - and they're better players than these two, then sure - let 'em go.

PS - Mike Daniels is the MAN!
 

Southpaw

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As far as defensive lineman. Johnny Jolly is a guy we absolutely need to keep on our roster. He's been absolutely instrumental in our ability to stop the run this season. Everytime I watch him play I just shake my head in amazement. Out of the league for 3 years, hooked on the sizzurp, comes back and is basically the best lineman we have.

I also agree with one of the above posts. Raji doesn't get stats which makes people think he's not doing anything. Nose Tackles have a rather thankless job. It's a very non-glamorous position. If you look at other great Nose Tackles like Vince Wilfork and Kris Jenkins just to name two, they don't really have much more flash or stats than Raji. (For as long as he's been playing anyway.
 
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Bagadeez04

Bagadeez04

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Packers 2014 Unrestricted Free Agents:

B.J. Raji
Mike Neal
C.J. Wilson
Johnny Jolly
Ryan Pickett
Sam Shields
Jermichael Finley
James Jones
John Kuhn
Evan Dietrich-Smith
Marshall Newhouse
Andrew Quarless
Seneca Wallace
James Starks
Rob Francois

Some tough decisions will have to be made. The entire concept of this thread isn't something to shake your head at. Good players are going to be let go. There is a reason Raji wasn't resigned last offseason.

Now I agree that Daniels alone doesn't make Raji expendable, but a combo of two or three guys at a much lower price can do the trick. At the same time, that's also extra roster spots taken up, which TT values highly.

Thank you. That is a ton of talent to have to keep in free agency. No where did I suggest I want Raji to go, but a lot of those UFAs are going to have to. The question is which ones?
 

NelsonsLongCatch

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No, for the simple reason that Raji and Daniels do not do the same thing. Raji is a three down defensive lineman who is very good at stopping the run. Daniels is more of a pass rusher. He's shorter and lighter than Raji.
 

NelsonsLongCatch

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Raji gets no respect from people in this forum b/c he doesn't have the flashy stats. But, he has been instrumental to our success this season. His play in the middle is a big reason why we have a top ranked rush defense and why Hawk/Lattimore have had space to make plays. He eats up blockers, keeps contain, and able to make plays at the same time. It's an under-appreciated role, but a vital one to our team's success. I think he'll get paid well this off-season. And I think the Packers would be foolish to let him go. If we don't sign him long-term, I hope we franchise him.

And the posts about Daniels are dead on. He's a great sub-package pass threat. Let him thrive in that role.

Couldn't agree more. Nose Tackles don't have great stats. They do the dirty work that makes the defense work.
 

DevilDon

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Packers 2014 Unrestricted Free Agents:

B.J. Raji
Mike Neal
C.J. Wilson
Johnny Jolly
Ryan Pickett
Sam Shields
Jermichael Finley
James Jones
John Kuhn
Evan Dietrich-Smith
Marshall Newhouse
Andrew Quarless
Seneca Wallace
James Starks
Rob Francois

Some tough decisions will have to be made.
Ouch, when you look at that list that way it's alot of talent to see go. But I can trim it a bit for you:
Take Wilson, Kuhn, Wallace and Francois off the list. I think Pick is gone unless he's going to play for the league minimum. Oh ok, Wallace too.
I think must-sign players are Raji, Jolly & Shields. Take your pick between Quarless and Finley.
I hardly think it's going to be a tough decision at all. I believe the market will dictate what happens with the rest.
Neal, Jones, EDS, Newhouse, Starks will all dictate their prices by how they play the rest of the year. If the Packers win the SB those players will all be premium FAs.
Would any of them take a "home-town" discount? I guess it will come down to how much of a discount. The Packers have viable backups at all of those positions except EDS. You could argue that he's also one of the more important signings.
 

ExpatPacker

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Packers 2014 Unrestricted Free Agents:

B.J. Raji
Mike Neal
C.J. Wilson
Johnny Jolly
Ryan Pickett
Sam Shields
Jermichael Finley
James Jones
John Kuhn
Evan Dietrich-Smith
Marshall Newhouse
Andrew Quarless
Seneca Wallace
James Starks
Rob Francois

Some tough decisions will have to be made. The entire concept of this thread isn't something to shake your head at. Good players are going to be let go. There is a reason Raji wasn't resigned last offseason.

Now I agree that Daniels alone doesn't make Raji expendable, but a combo of two or three guys at a much lower price can do the trick. At the same time, that's also extra roster spots taken up, which TT values highly.

Not re-signing Raji would leave a big hole at NT, and the only reason Packers should let him go is they can't afford him.

IMO the keepers from this list in order are:

Sam Shields
Johnny Jolly
<J Finley> (depending on his injury)
BJ Raji
EDS
James Jones
Ryan Pickett
James Starks
Andrew Quarless
Mike Neal

If we can sign those guys, Packers are in pretty good shape. If we lose Finley, TE might have to be the round 1 or 2 pick. Also a good OC. EDS is adequate, but only adequate. Starks provides a good complement to Lacy at RB. Together, the two of them are a potent combination. Mike Neal keeps getting moved around, but he has improved and I'd hate to give up on him at this stage.
 

HyponGrey

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Raji is probably a priority, Neal is important, Wilson is the Raji failsafe, Jolly should have already gotten his ink as our loyalty will pay off big time, Pickett is a stop gap with only a few years left, Shields had best be top priority, Finley will be interesting, Jones is important but expendable, Kuhn is gone, EDS is our own fault, Quarless is the Finley failsafe, Wallace is gone based purely on Tolzein's pay, Starks is utterly expendable, Francois is expendable but SILB depth is disastrous. Jennings will get an OR Tender, which essentially means nothing.
 

ExpatPacker

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Raji is probably a priority, Neal is important, Wilson is the Raji failsafe, Jolly should have already gotten his ink as our loyalty will pay off big time, Pickett is a stop gap with only a few years left, Shields had best be top priority, Finley will be interesting, Jones is important but expendable, Kuhn is gone, EDS is our own fault, Quarless is the Finley failsafe, Wallace is gone based purely on Tolzein's pay, Starks is utterly expendable, Francois is expendable but SILB depth is disastrous. Jennings will get an OR Tender, which essentially means nothing.

I'm not certain about Starks' utter expendability. If he can stay healthy (uhhh, ok you got me on that one), he would be valuable spelling Lacy. Getting rid of Kuhn and keeping Lacy, Starks and Franklin sounds pretty good to me.

I sincerely hope the Packers draft a top prospect at OC so we don't have to rely on EDS anymore. Alternatively, we could wait and see how Tretter's going to do, but that's a risk.

Also, news has it that the return of Sherrod and Worthy may be delayed until next year's TC because the Packers feel that they have the depth and quality at those positions. I guess that means they're comfortable with Newhouse being the #3 OT and that they have a somewhat higher opinion of him than most of us do. Inarresting.
 

B-ri

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I'm not certain about Starks' utter expendability. If he can stay healthy (uhhh, ok you got me on that one), he would be valuable spelling Lacy. Getting rid of Kuhn and keeping Lacy, Starks and Franklin sounds pretty good to me.

Let's not forget about DuJuan Harris either. The coaching staff was big on him prior to his injury.
 

easyk83

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I actually think Raji is the most important on that list. Sure his production hasn't been **** but he did put the Defense on his back in 2010 and this season he's been an early down bulwark against the run. Without him I don't see us being able to stuff the run with only 2 down linemen like we've been able to this season
 

Poppa San

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I'm not certain about Starks' utter expendability. If he can stay healthy (uhhh, ok you got me on that one), he would be valuable spelling Lacy. Getting rid of Kuhn and keeping Lacy, Starks and Franklin sounds pretty good to me.

I sincerely hope the Packers draft a top prospect at OC so we don't have to rely on EDS anymore. Alternatively, we could wait and see how Tretter's going to do, but that's a risk.

Also, news has it that the return of Sherrod and Worthy may be delayed until next year's TC because the Packers feel that they have the depth and quality at those positions. I guess that means they're comfortable with Newhouse being the #3 OT and that they have a somewhat higher opinion of him than most of us do. Inarresting.
That ain't gonna happen would be my guess.
http://www.packersnews.com/article/...d-answer-center-Dietrich-Smith?nclick_check=1
“He’s always been athletic and strong; he just wasn’t able to have the mental part of the game down four years ago or whatever it was,” left guard Josh Sitton said. “And these past two years, he’s taken over mentally and taken over the whole mental part of the thing for the offensive line. Now, when I have a question about another team, I go and ask Evan. It’s his job as a center to be right 100 percent of the time and always know what the other team is doing, and he’s done that.”
and
Coach Mike McCarthy also lauded Dietrich-Smith’s efforts in the team’s third-ranked rushing offense (141.4 yards per game), but his temperament in the huddle is what’s winning over Rodgers......
“I think we all knew that it was going to be Evan’s gig at some point,” Rodgers said. “It was fun playing with Jeff, but I’m in my middle years now and it would be fun to go on a run with a guy for five, six, seven years because that quarterback-center relationship is very important. I think you see that with Evan and I. The opportunity to play together for an extended period of time, that would be kind of a quarterback’s dream right there.”


What gives you the idea Sherrod is out until next year? That decision will be made by Wednesday.
 

DevilDon

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I sincerely hope the Packers draft a top prospect at OC so we don't have to rely on EDS anymore. Alternatively, we could wait and see how Tretter's going to do, but that's a risk.
I believe JC is the C of the future or 1st backup at C. He was drafted with that position in mind.
 

PFanCan

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I think James Jones will give GB a significant hometown discount. I mean, look what has happened to Jennings...

Jones will be back as long as the Packers want him back and are willing to offer something reasonable.
 

HyponGrey

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I believe JC is the C of the future or 1st backup at C. He was drafted with that position in mind.
Tretter has elite C potential, but as far as I know he has yet to snap a ball. The big problem with drafting a top OC prospect is that this year's C crop is really weak. EDS is a good back up, and could even be good if he wasn't a complete misfit for our system.
 

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