Does anyone think Gute will pull off a big trade?

[Mondio]

I've assumed he was going to be pretty involved in all things draft and evaluation, but why would him Not being at something he he always been at indicate his duties are deeper than that?

 

[ExpatPacker]

I am most certainly in my right mind and I could easily see 2 out of 3. But nobody in this organization has the balls to dump the underperforming cap represented by those 3 players.

Then there's Bulaga whose legs have been through the ringer.

Anybody for four?

I actually think Bulaga has more of a chance of being let go than some of the others. Too many injuries. It's time for him to hang up the cletes unless some team gets him at a bargain, which they probably will if he gets cut. My hope is that Matthews and Nelson are willing to take a pay cut, and then Bulaga and Cobb can walk. That would mean however that the Packers better draft a RT early on. Relying on Spriggs and the other what's'-his-name is too scary. And what's-his-name on the practice squad is still a TT "project".

I'd hate to see Cobb go, but 10 mill is a lot of cash when Jordy and Montgomery, yes Montgomery, can play the slot. Why they insist on keeping the latter at RB I do not know. He seemed to do well as a slot receiver in his first year, well...the few times that he actually did play.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I seem to recall a few years back it was mentioned that something like this was not legal. Not a sign and trade perhaps as I think it had something to do with free agency and the tags but it was said that even though it is technically illegal it does happen occasionally and no one says anything. The Packers actually did it with one of their players I think.

I think you are right about the acquiring club can't negotiate unless the trading team says its OK. The Dolphins have given Landry permission to seek a trade so I think that would involve negotiating a new contract with the potential trading partner. If permission is not given the acquiring club would have to either accept the terms agreed to or they would have to let the trading team know their demands and negotiate through them. IMO this would be deceptive and shouldn't be allowed. Example I'm Randall Cobb and unbeknownst to me the packers have approached Cleveland (or vice versa) with a trade proposal involving me. Cleveland says OK but only if you can get him to sign a 4 year extension for 20 million dollars. The Packers approach me and make the offer and I, being the good guy I am and wanting to stay in Green Bay, agree to it. I sign and two days or two weeks or whatever it's announced I have been traded to Cleveland. Now it would be difficult to prove but in a case like that I think its obvious the new contract terms were set by Cleveland and I may not have accepted those terms with them. That's the sort of thing I would think is deceptive and should not be allowed.

Of course like you said for the Packers to make this deal they would be smart not to include a signing bonus so if such a deal would be proposed without one it would immediately raise a red flag.

A team acquiring a player in a trade might negotiate with him under certain circumstances but they aren't allowed to sign him to a new deal before the move is completed. I don't believe the team trading away a guy has any interest of agreeing to a restructured contract based on numbers set by a club in talks about acquiring him.

I'm still suspicious about his Gute's role; and here is more evidence; "Murphy said Thompson was back in Green Bay breaking down film and writing reports for Gutekunst, who earlier in the offseason indicated that Thompson would travel to Indianapolis this week." http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-...wn-here-ted-thompsons-absence-felt-at-combine So TT still has his hands quite deeply in the pie.

It seems Thompson is working as a scout, something that is close to his heart and he's excellent at. Gutekunst should definitely benefit because of it.

My hope is that Matthews and Nelson are willing to take a pay cut, and then Bulaga and Cobb can walk.

That would result in the Packers having to address another two positions on the roster. In addition I don't believe it would be necessary to release either Bulaga and/or Cobb if Matthews and Nelson agree to restructure their deals.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm still suspicious about his Gute's role; and here is more evidence; "Murphy said Thompson was back in Green Bay breaking down film and writing reports for Gutekunst, who earlier in the offseason indicated that Thompson would travel to Indianapolis this week." http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-...wn-here-ted-thompsons-absence-felt-at-combine So TT still has his hands quite deeply in the pie.

The point of the article is that Thompson is not at the Combine which brought Schneider to tears.

It is evident that Murphy is more focused on the football operation and less on negotiating for gas stations and hotels to tear down. The fact Gutekunst, McCarthy and Ball are all reporting to Murphy indicates Gutekunst's authority, at least for the time being in Gutekunst's rookie season, is more diluted than that of Ted "I'm the decider" Thompson.

Some are concerned that this will devolve into the situation seen years ago where members of the board saw fit to meddle in football decisions. I don't worry about that. Murphy is the Chairman, and I don't think the relevant message from his executive committee goes beyond "doing the same thing over and over is not working" or, in a phrase, "go fix it". It would be impossible for Murphy to have disagreed. However, I don't think Murphy is taking private meetings with Larry McCarron, for example, or some other board member for an opinion on a personnel decision.

With four men in the room, you do have a kind of "decision by committee" situation. On lower level matters, I would expect Gutekunst to have the deciding vote while considering more input from McCarthy than perhaps Thompson would allow in terms of the coach's perception of need. On high level matters, such as the timing, structure and amounts associated with Rodgers extension is a matter of acute interest on the part of Murphy surely in consultation with Ball. Murphy may be the point man on this matter dealing directly Rodgers agent. In matters of come consequence where consensus is not reached, I would expect Murphy to be the guy weighing scouting, coaching and cap input and making the call.

Clearly, there is a perception of dysfunction in the Thompson organization. Thompson kicked upstairs or sideways or down, depending how you see it. The "legendary" DC has bee replaced. Top personnel guys having a bad taste in their mouths, having defected in lateral moves where eventual promotion to DC is no more likely than in Green Bay. Highsmith went out the door saying, in effect, he wasn't being heard. Van Pelt may have been the "Rodgers whisper", but his most important job would have been preparing Hundley and that failure fell to him. Philbin is back. Run game and pass game coordinator jobs have been created on both sides of the ball to get position groups working in concert.

I doubt the the key causes of dysfunction, whether it's more a matter of personnel selection or coaching, is all that clearly known internally. I've seen this movie before where the senior management wants solutions, and the top dog is charged with digging in and getting his hands dirty to figure it out. Given the breadth and depth of changes, Murphy, et. al., have gone with "all of the above".

It's Murphy's job now to make this arrangement work. Committee decision making is not inherently bad. It comes down to whether (1) the members know what the h*ll they are doing (2) there is mutual respect in a collegial arrangement where several heads are better than one without infighting and jockeying for authority. Having one "decider" makes for cleaner and clearer decisions, but what if that decider is heading off in the wrong direction with nobody stopping him?

We'll see how it works out. The fact McCarthy is under contract through 2020 would indicate it's a two year plan to get clarity on whether that aspect of the organization needs a shakeup as well.

 

[Croak]

The point of the article is that Thompson is not at the Combine which brought Schneider to tears.

It is evident that Murphy is more focused on the football operation and less on negotiating for gas stations and hotels to tear down. The fact Gutekunst, McCarthy and Ball are all reporting to Murphy indicates Gutekunst's authority, at least for the time being in Gutekunst's rookie season, is more diluted than that of Ted "I'm the decider" Thompson.

Some are concerned that this will devolve into the situation seen years ago where members of the board saw fit to meddle in football decisions. I don't worry about that. Murphy is the Chairman, and I don't think the relevant message from his executive committee goes beyond "doing the same thing over and over is not working" or, in a phrase, "go fix it". It would be impossible for Murphy to have disagreed. However, I don't think Murphy is taking private meetings with Larry McCarron, for example, or some other board member for an opinion on a personnel decision.

With four men in the room, you do have a kind of "decision by committee" situation. On lower level matters, I would expect Gutekunst to have the deciding vote while considering more input from McCarthy than perhaps Thompson would allow in terms of the coach's perception of need. On high level matters, such as the timing, structure and amounts associated with Rodgers extension is a matter of acute interest on the part of Murphy surely in consultation with Ball. Murphy may be the point man on this matter dealing directly Rodgers agent. In matters of come consequence where consensus is not reached, I would expect Murphy to be the guy weighing scouting, coaching and cap input and making the call.

Clearly, there is a perception of dysfunction in the Thompson organization. Thompson kicked upstairs or sideways or down, depending how you see it. The "legendary" DC has bee replaced. Top personnel guys having a bad taste in their mouths, having defected in lateral moves where eventual promotion to DC is no more likely than in Green Bay. Highsmith went out the door saying, in effect, he wasn't being heard. Van Pelt may have been the "Rodgers whisper", but his most important job would have been preparing Hundley and that failure fell to him. Philbin is back. Run game and pass game coordinator jobs have been created on both sides of the ball to get position groups working in concert.

I doubt the the key causes of dysfunction, whether it's more a matter of personnel selection or coaching, is all that clearly known internally. I've seen this movie before where the senior management wants solutions, and the top dog is charged with digging in and getting his hands dirty to figure it out. Given the breadth and depth of changes, Murphy, et. al., have gone with "all of the above".

It's Murphy's job now to make this arrangement work. Committee decision making is not inherently bad. It comes down to whether (1) the members know what the h*ll they are doing (2) there is mutual respect in a collegial arrangement where several heads are better than one without infighting and jockeying for authority. Having one "decider" makes for cleaner and clearer decisions, but what if that decider is heading off in the wrong direction with nobody stopping him?

We'll see how it works out. The fact McCarthy is under contract through 2020 would indicate it's a two year plan to get clarity on whether that aspect of the organization needs a shakeup as well.

I like this post because it is thoughtful and I've dealt with decision making boards most of my life. So I completely understand the "small group interaction" at play on a board of directors. I guess you nailed it. Who will come out as the "designated leader" of the group? Who will come out as the "actual leader" of the group? It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Poppa San]

Does Randall for Kizer and draft slot swaps qualify as a BIG trade?

 

[PackerDNA]

Your morning rumor; the Raiders are asking the Packers about trading for Hundley.

 

[AmishMafia]

Does Randall for Kizer and draft slot swaps qualify as a BIG trade?

Yes

 

[Poppa San]

Your morning rumor; the Raiders are asking the Packers about trading for Hundley.

Trade up from #175 to #110 works for me. or whatever the exact #s are. Round 5 comp plus Brett for their fourth?

 

[AmishMafia]

Your morning rumor; the Raiders are asking the Packers about trading for Hundley.

Now if Gute can get anything for him, even a 7th, he will be back in good graces.

 

[Mondio]

anything for him at this point would be nice

 

[Sanguine camper]

Picking up a second Hundley qualifies as a fart in the wind of a trade. Kizer might make an ok 3rd string qb like Hundley but he will have no impact in turning the team around. While Kizer may have a better arm than Hundley he is lost on the field and routinely throws the ball into coverage.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I did not see that coming. I'm kinda concerned about losing Randall. Not that I have been a big fan but aren't we short on CB's? I'm glad that he improved to be traded but can't imagine what the plan is.
Had to think for a minute, who Kizer is. Glad to see that Gute is getting some competition for Hundley. FA might actually be interesting again this year.

 

[AmishMafia]

Picking up a second Hundley qualifies as a fart in the wind of a trade. Kizer might make an ok 3rd string qb like Hundley but he will have no impact in turning the team around. While Kizer may have a better arm than Hundley he is lost on the field and routinely throws the ball into coverage.

Peyton manning's rookie season wasn't much better.

Kiser has a much higher ceiling than Hundley. Will he work out? I don't know. But to discount him after a poor rookie season, when most said he was too raw, on a bad offense, with poor lame-duck coaching, is way premature.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Does Randall for Kizer and draft slot swaps qualify as a BIG trade?

Only if one of them becomes a Pro Bowler and the other doesn't.

Trade up from #175 to #110 works for me. or whatever the exact #s are. Round 5 comp plus Brett for their fourth?

Round 4: Packers go from #114 to 101
Round 5: Packers go from #150 to 138

I did not see that coming. I'm kinda concerned about losing Randall. Not that I have been a big fan but aren't we short on CB's? I'm glad that he improved to be traded but can't imagine what the plan is.
Had to think for a minute, who Kizer is. Glad to see that Gute is getting some competition for Hundley. FA might actually be interesting again this year.

If the Packers weren't going to ride the Randall roller coaster much longer, I am glad they decided to jump off of it now and not 6 games into the season.

If you are going to be thin at any position, this is the perfect time of year to be thin. I'm pretty confident that by using Free agency, trades and the draft, the Packers will improve the CB position.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

The more I thought about it, the more I like this move. Can't understand why anyone would want Gute's head for this. I really never liked Randall but am concerned about the wholes in the secondary.
I know that Sherman has been released, but I am not crazy about him at all. I think he would screw up the locker room. Sure hope they go in a different direction.
Not sure Kizer is much better than Hundley but hard to think that he would be any worse.

 

[thequick12]

Yeah losing Randall not a huge deal there's a lot of good corners available in the draft. However I would have preferred gute get a pick in return and let the browns keep kizer.

 

[PikeBadger]

Something to take into consideration. One of the players tweeted, About time. I bet McCarthy is happy Randall is gone and he has Kizer to work with.

 

[gbgary]

Does Randall for Kizer and draft slot swaps qualify as a BIG trade?

i don't think so. meh player for meh player, slight draft position upgrade, a pinch more cap space. big in the locker room though since randall had become a tumor.

 

[Poppa San]

Round 4: Packers go from #114 to 101
Round 5: Packers go from #150 to 138

I was referring to the Hundley trade comment. That's why the quote about it was in my reply .

 

[OldSchool101]

well the Packers didn't get the expected extra 3rd rounder anyway

No we didn't. We do however have the very first pick on the third day which is almost as good. I like that almost as much as a comp 3rd rounder, because we have plenty of time to analyze the direction we want to go. Negotiate with other teams for a veteran trade? Get our guy that slipped out of the third round.

That's a really important pick from a psychological standpoint because many teams draft their 3rd rounder based on dire position need after going BAT and let a player go they really wanted during the last round. If that player slips he is essentially a 3rd rounder in their mind.
It is by no mistake that we traded for the 1st pick in the 4th round 2 consecutive years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No we didn't. We do however have the very first pick on the third day which is almost as good. I like that almost as much as a comp 3rd rounder, because we have plenty of time to analyze the direction we want to go. Negotiate with other teams for a veteran trade? Get our guy that slipped out of the third round.

That's a really important pick from a psychological standpoint because many teams draft their 3rd rounder based on dire position need after going BAT and let a player go they really wanted during the last round. If that player slips he is essentially a 3rd rounder in their mind.
It is by no mistake that we traded for the 1st pick in the 4th round 2 consecutive years.

Agree, anytime you have the first pick of Day 1, 2 or 3, you have had a lot of time to really study the pick and possibly even shop it with other teams. The Packers traded out of the first round last year to get the first pick of Day #2 and used it to take King. Guessing they had a few decent offers from teams that were still seeing guys on the board that they thought wouldn't make it out of Round #1. Same thing will happen with the 4th round first pick of the day.

 

[easyk83]

Something to take into consideration. One of the players tweeted, About time. I bet McCarthy is happy Randall is gone and he has Kizer to work with.

Who was it? If its Clinton Dix I'm going to laugh.

 

[PackAttack12]

Like I posted in the Randall thread, the improved 4th and 5th round selections give BGK more firepower in the trade market. He may not use them that way, but it certainly gives him more flexibility to improve the team by any means necessary.

 

[PackerDNA]

It's not a good time to be the GM of a team with multiple holes to fill. I think Gute and company have a plan in depth, with multiple fallback options if A or B don't pan out. He's gonna have to be aggressive and use every tool in the tool box.