Decline of Mike McCarthy

[XPack]

Quite a damning interview from Bakht.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...ils-packers-festering-lack-of-accountability/

I was surprised with Mark Murphy talked about lack of accountability when hiring MattLF. It was a very public and clear statement that the problems were more ingrained into culture rather than just play-calling lapses. And Bakht interview provides more evidence.

“I think they wanted somebody that would hold players accountable, and the other thing that, and Brian can speak to this as well – he was there – we talked a little bit about how they felt complacency had set in among some players and coaches. In my mind, that was something that as we went through the process was kind of in the back of my mind: Is there something we can do that can kind of shake people up so we don’t have the complacency?”

Bakht says there was no accountability for any of the players actions. Being late for meetings or flight and overall breakdown in discipline that went ingored.

Honestly, I'm glad we sacked MM as a cultural detioration in dressing room is far more dangerous than just on-field flaws. It sets a bad precedent for young players and a cause for downward spiral for veterans.

Feels like McCarthy just gave up being a HC and was just along for the ride past few seasons. We should have sacked him a couple of years earlier, it looks like.

Looks like MattLF has lots of work in his hands, not just in gameplan, but in backroom too.

 

[thequick12]

Quite a damning interview from Bakht.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...ils-packers-festering-lack-of-accountability/

I was surprised with Mark Murphy talked about lack of accountability when hiring MattLF. It was a very public and clear statement that the problems were more ingrained into culture rather than just play-calling lapses. And Bakht interview provides more evidence.



Bakht says there was no accountability for any of the players actions. Being late for meetings or flight and overall breakdown in discipline that went ingored.

Honestly, I'm glad we sacked MM as a cultural detioration in dressing room is far more dangerous than just on-field flaws. It sets a bad precedent for young players and a cause for downward spiral for veterans.

Feels like McCarthy just gave up being a HC and was just along for the ride past few seasons. We should have sacked him a couple of years earlier, it looks like.

Looks like MattLF has lots of work in his hands, not just in gameplan, but in backroom too.

All that was pretty evident from watching the team play. And im pretty sure no one ever confused mcarthy for a genius, I mean the way he managed the clock made me realize he was a complete DA long ago. That's gotta be one of the easiest jobs as the head coach and that dude couldn't handle it right from the beginning to the end. And not only that but he was also apparently too dumb to just hire a guy to do it for him if he couldn't handle it. He just always struck me as the typical big dumb football is all I have in life, all I've ever had in life guy. He should of been gone years ago. Imagine if the Packers had gotten mcvay two years ago instead of the rams, can't help but imagine itd be the Packers in the Superbowl with the unstoppable innovative offense. By all accounts Rodgers is very smart so I'm sure it was incredibly frustrating for him to deal with mcarthys stupidity, I'm sure that's where a lot of their friction came from. I mean we all work with some stupid people that make the job harder than it has to be for us. I see that as how Rodgers viewed mm in the end. Work smarter not harder because smarter is safer and faster. Anyways, what happened under mcarthy is a mute point all we can do is hope that mcvays buddy is just as smart.

 

[Mondio]

It makes sense watching them play. I don't know how it got that way though, as it wasn't always the case. This team used to be a well disciplined team for a number of years, until recently.

 

[XPack]

It makes sense watching them play. I don't know how it got that way though, as it wasn't always the case. This team used to be a well disciplined team for a number of years, until recently.

Complacency from MM filtered down is my guess. Packers have been very lethargic under TT with no changes and perhaps he took his job for granted.

 

[PackerDNA]

It makes sense watching them play. I don't know how it got that way though, as it wasn't always the case. This team used to be a well disciplined team for a number of years, until recently.

You got this way by keeping the same people doing the same things for too long. The whole operation got stale. I keep going back to Bill Walsh who said 10 years should be it to be the head coach of any one team.

 

[ls1bob]

I still say that his brother who died a couple days after losing the NFCCG to the seahawks was a big loss,and contributed to the downward spiral(all but the Run the Table) of this team. No matter what anyone says,that was a lot to happen to someone in that span. Also,his being so stubborn and holding on to Capers 4 years too long really hurt the team I think.

 

[PackAttack12]

I still say that his brother who died a couple days after losing the NFCCG to the seahawks was a big loss,and contributed to the downward spiral(all but the Run the Table) of this team. No matter what anyone says,that was a lot to happen to someone in that span. Also,his being so stubborn and holding on to Capers 4 years too long really hurt the team I think.

And "run the table" was possible due to Rodgers playing the greatest 9 game stretch I've ever seen a quarterback play. He was in total command of the position in every facet of the game. As close to flawless as it gets.

But then Atlanta exposed the deep issues within the team in the NFC Championship game.

The Packers should have cut bait after that debacle. I remember saying after that game that heads needed to roll. But instead, another year was pissed away.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Will be interesting to see what happens to "the guys late for flights and meetings" that Bahk refers to, since I assume they are still on the team. Does MLF have a list of "these guys" or is the slate wiped clean and they all are given a reprieve? Were any of them so bad that the Packers just outright cut/trade them during the offseason?

I imagine that one of MLF's first steps is to restore order and accountability and those players who remain complacent won't last long.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Maybe MM treated them as adult men ?? I'm not saying MM wasn't part of the problem but not the whole.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe MM treated them as adult men ?? I'm not saying MM wasn't part of the problem but not the whole.

The problem is, when you have players that aren't acting like adult men, who are being paid millions of dollars to perform a job, as well as being a part of a team of 53+ players, turning a blind eye isn't what a coach is paid to do. It's pretty obvious that Bahk was annoyed by the behaviors of some of his teammates and I can't imagine that he is just one of many who felt that way.

Much like this forum, we are all adults, but once in awhile, you Mods have to give us a nudge or even a boot, if we fall out of line.

In my line of work, I have dealt with many college athletes and it just amazes me as to how many of them are really good athletes, but fall way short when it comes to life skills. I think a big part of that is that they were either coddled and had their hands held through much of their life or they just had very little in the way of support growing up and sports was a place they found themselves success.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

The problem is, when you have players that aren't acting like adult men, who are being paid millions of dollars to perform a job, as well as being a part of a team of 53+ players, turning a blind eye isn't what a coach is paid to do. It's pretty obvious that Bahk was annoyed by the behaviors of some of his teammates and I can't imagine that he is just one of many who felt that way.

Much like this forum, we are all adults, but once in awhile, you Mods have to give us a nudge or even a boot, if we fall out of line.

Us ?? Never.

 

[PackAttack12]

Will be interesting to see what happens to "the guys late for flights and meetings" that Bahk refers to, since I assume they are still on the team. Does MLF have a list of "these guys" or is the slate wiped clean and they all are given a reprieve? Were any of them so bad that the Packers just outright cut/trade them during the offseason?

I imagine that one of MLF's first steps is to restore order and accountability and those players who remain complacent won't last long.

Additionally, because these incidents were never met with punishment or accountability, how often were guys showing up late because they knew there wouldn't be consequences?

That's a problem.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I'm furious that we wasted years of Rodgers' prime and health for this idiot. People point at guys that we had to get rid of because they were locker room issues and didn't want to play for us-now we may know why

 

[Half Empty]

Maybe MM treated them as adult men ?? I'm not saying MM wasn't part of the problem but not the whole.

Maybe need an in-depth definition of 'adult men' as it pertains to this situation.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Maybe need an in-depth definition of 'adult men' as it pertains to this situation.

I believe they are adult enough to behave in a mature way. I think THEY are as accountable as MM was. Can they look at themselves in the mirror and say "My behavior has been the best I can do ?". Just my opinion of course

 

[PackAttack12]

I believe they are adult enough to behave in a mature way. I think THEY are as accountable as MM was. Can they look at themselves in the mirror and say "My behavior has been the best I can do ?". Just my opinion of course

They should be able to do that, but if they don't, the head coach has to be able to nip it in the bud.

 

[JohnnyBlood]

In watching this unfold, I wonder how much of some of the moves this season such as trading HaHa and Montgomery were tied to Gutekunst seeing the culture and starting to weed some of it out.

It did seem strange to trade HaHa when we were already struggling with even getting two healthy safeties on the field.

 

[PackAttack12]

In watching this unfold, I wonder how much of some of the moves this season such as trading HaHa and Montgomery were tied to Gutekunst seeing the culture and starting to weed some of it out.

Good observation. I too made the comment that moves like these haven't been made in the past. Whether you want to blame that on McCarthy or Thompson or both, it seemed like there was a previous lack of accountability with problem players. Gutekunst clearly isn't the type to put up with it.

I think with McCarthy, the writing was on the wall. If it were up to Gutekunst, I feel like McCarthy would have been out the door with Capers after 2017. But IMO, Murphy wanted to give McCarthy the benefit of the doubt and give him another season

It did seem strange to trade HaHa when we were already struggling with even getting two healthy safeties on the field.

And it was clearly the right decision since the performance of the Packers defense actually improved after he was traded.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In watching this unfold, I wonder how much of some of the moves this season such as trading HaHa and Montgomery were tied to Gutekunst seeing the culture and starting to weed some of it out.

It did seem strange to trade HaHa when we were already struggling with even getting two healthy safeties on the field.

Most definitely and the process for Gute might have started by trading Damarious Randall.

Getting rid of a player or two that are obvious and publicly known issues is a case when you are able to just cut right to the chase and get rid of that player. However, when you begin to see a trend of multiple players with similar issues and nothing being done to address it by the coaching staff, you have to hold the coach(es) accountable.

 

[Half Empty]

I believe they are adult enough to behave in a mature way. I think THEY are as accountable as MM was. Can they look at themselves in the mirror and say "My behavior has been the best I can do ?". Just my opinion of course

No argument. The post to which I referred came across, to me, as defending the players' behavior as being that of adults.

 

[gbgary]

so...i wonder which respected member of the locker room was the first to start disrespecting mccarthy? you know it had to be one of the leaders. a rookie or one of the "guys" wouldn't have done it. their jobs were on the line. it had to be one of the veteran leaders. someone who knew they'd do nothing because of his statis. others saw it happen and they were off to the races. sitton? someone before him and they tried to use sitton as the example? that should be the next question of someone who's no longer there in an interview.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

so...i wonder which respected member of the locker room was the first to start disrespecting mccarthy? you know it had to be one of the leaders. a rookie or one of the "guys" wouldn't have done it. their jobs were on the line. it had to be one of the veteran leaders. someone who knew they'd do nothing because of his statis. others saw it happen and they were off to the races. sitton? someone before him and they tried to use sitton as the example? that should be the next question of someone who's no longer there in an interview.

While I get what you are saying, I don't think they need to have a Witch Hunt by going back in time. Hopefully there is a "short list" of players who weren't the best teammates in the past and those guys are somewhat monitored. What is necessary though, is for MLF to stand up at the first team meeting and say "That was then, this is now and as long as I am the coach, either get with the program or you won't be here very long." Possibly the toughest thing ahead for the new coaching staff won't just be the X's and O's but infusing a whole new culture among the players/coaches on and off the field.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Maybe MM treated them as adult men ?? I'm not saying MM wasn't part of the problem but not the whole.

Have you met 22-25 year old males at the height of physical excellence? Do you remember what it was like to be 22-25? I do, and I was far from an "adult" in the mental sense of the word. And most people don't even have the issue that many of these players have of not facing consequences for much of their lives because all of their indiscretions were excused because they were good at football.

I really believe that Aaron Jones is the perfect encapsulation of what was wrong with MM in the later years. His refusal to adjust his offensive scheme to take advantage of players was ridiculous, and no single player highlighted his stubbornness more than his refusal to acknowledge what everyone knew for about 5 games.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Have you met 22-25 year old males at the height of physical excellence? Do you remember what it was like to be 22-25? I do, and I was far from an "adult" in the mental sense of the word. And most people don't even have the issue that many of these players have of not facing consequences for much of their lives because all of their indiscretions were excused because they were good at football.

I really believe that Aaron Jones is the perfect encapsulation of what was wrong with MM in the later years. His refusal to adjust his offensive scheme to take advantage of players was ridiculous, and no single player highlighted his stubbornness more than his refusal to acknowledge what everyone knew for about 5 games.

Ironic you use Aaron Jones in this situation, a guy who was suspended for 2 games for Substance Abuse, as an example of what was wrong with MM, while also discussing players not acting like adults.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Have you met 22-25 year old males at the height of physical excellence? Do you remember what it was like to be 22-25? I do, and I was far from an "adult" in the mental sense of the word. And most people don't even have the issue that many of these players have of not facing consequences for much of their lives because all of their indiscretions were excused because they were good at football.

I really believe that Aaron Jones is the perfect encapsulation of what was wrong with MM in the later years. His refusal to adjust his offensive scheme to take advantage of players was ridiculous, and no single player highlighted his stubbornness more than his refusal to acknowledge what everyone knew for about 5 games.

No, sorry.....I've always been a 61 year old but thanks for the point.