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Coach McCarthy

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by dude, May 26, 2010.

  1. dude

    dude Cheesehead

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    I wonder about MM. I mentioned a few things on another thread, but I don't see him consistently making adjustments at halftime or in the 4th quarter when something needs to be done. this leads to the question of how well he analyzes other teams strengths, weaknesses and tendencies...and then plan to exploit them at opportune moments in the game.

    We've seen him make poor, repetitive, obvious, play calls...like successive up the gut runs that went no where. Or fails to take advantage of surpirse opportuntities. I know you cannot run surprise plays too often but it seems that back in the day, whne it was fourth and one, and everyone expected a run or sneak, Bart Starr would fake that and throw and over the shoulder to Carrol Dale or Boyd Dowler.

    Poor clock management. Calling time outs unnecissarily, or making poor referee challenges.

    Generally seems to lack fire in the belly with players and with TT to insist he acquire, or at least hunt for, specific talent when its needed to get over the top.

    All that said I prefer MM to Childress. Wouldn't mind having Payton but they seem fairly equal so far... except for the SB that is.
     
  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I see alot of people on here like to give it to our GM, and in many cases that's fair. But I don't think we have talked much about the coach. So I was wondering what everyone thought of him so far. I think it's also fair to compare him to Childress and Payton as they were canidates for the job as well.
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Weird, I started the thread but Im 2nd in posting? Might have something to do with me using my phone today to start the thread. oh well doesnt matter, just weird.

    I dont have a huge problem with the challenges, as I think he has to rely alot on his staff to judge if he should challenge or not.

    The time management is terrible. Stuff that even basic fans can see should be done. This drives me extremely crazy during close games. I also am not of fan of late season preparation, from indoor practice in Jan to get ready for a game at lambeau to how he handled the cardinals games. I am not saying that in hindsight, it was a concern for me before those games.

    He could be more media savvy but thats just nit picking. I can only imagine how hard it is to get a quality quote out of the organization for some of these journalist.
     
  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I think McCarthy is a good coach, but with him, as with Sean Payton, it's almost all on offense. And that's fine.
    MM lets Capers run the defense, while Payton lets Gregg Williams run the Saints defense.

    But both HC's are pretty smart on offense.

    I agree with some bad time management accusations against Mike. And he's had some bonehead challenges. I think Payton is slightly a better coach, and for sure is smarter. Ironic too because Payton wanted this gig before he got the Saints job after Thompson rejected him and then went with McCarthy.

    Also ironic is the reverse Saints.... Thompson wanted Gregg Williams first, then settled on Capers after Gregg rejected Green Bay. Funny how that works out.... I think the Saints have the better coach on both sides of the ball there, but we could prove me wrong this season.
     
  5. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    If there's a problem with Mike, it's that he has made mistakes with his assistant coaching hires. He made a mistake with his choice of Sanders as defensive coordinator and I think he has done the same with his choice of Philbin and Campen on offense. The only coach with any real experience with the zone blocking scheme was Jagodzinski and the line has struggled with it since he left. Our offense would literally be unstoppable with good, solid line play and we haven't seen it under the offensive coaching since McCarthy took over in 2006. I think you can make the same criticism with the special teams coaching. Otherwise, I'm a big believer in him. Was very impressed how he turned the team around after the loss at Tampa last year--he could just as easily have lost the team at that point.
     
  6. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Yes he did help rally the troops after that embarassing loss to Tampa Bay. Special teams was the #1 blame for that loss IMO. We had that game won, til the kick return with about 5 minutes left.

    When he hired Sanders right away, I don't think they had many better options though. At that time.

    I don't like our OL coaches too much either, but I think our OL overall has done better than average, I would say in the good range.

    They've allowed Ryan Grant to be a top-5 rusher over the past 2.5 seasons. This was a nobody before we got him.
    Except for Barbre and Colledge at OT, they've pass-protected pretty well under McCarthy here. When benedict was here, our sack totals were very low.

    With Arod the past 2 years, they've been higher of course, but aside from the early nightmare with Barbre and DC anchoring the bookends, they've been at least average in pass protection IMO.

    If all 5 starters stay healthy this season, I would say this OL is about #10 in the NFL. Good bookends (if healthy), despite being old. Wells is a good center, Sitton a Pro Bowl quality RG, and I have seen Colledge do well at LG when allowed to stay there for a full season, and if he can't, we have Spitz to put there and not lose anything.

    I currently feel good about our White Wall.
     
  7. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I don't think it was Mccarthy who really rallied the troops after the Tampa game but there's a possibility he had something to do with it. I've posted this numerous times in other threads, that "come to jesus" meeting that the Packers had before the Cowboys game really disturbed me. It just showed me that the players OR the coaches weren't really doing there jobs adequetely. And yes despite them winning 7 of their last 8 games, I still felt this team didn't deserve to win it all. Now going back toe Mccarthy topic, I remember Barnett saying in the locker room after the win against the cowboys "everyone's been putting the heat on coach [Mccarthy], when we the players needed to step up." So what does this mean? Is Mccarthy doing his job or are is being the youngest team in the league starting to show its true colors?
     
  8. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I think, like with TT, but to a lesser extent, MM is doing a good job. But until he wins a SB, he's always gonna be remembered by we not choosing Payton, and him winning it all. It may be hindsight, but it is what it is.
     
  9. Mack_20

    Mack_20 Cheesehead

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    I don't hate MM by any means, but he does have very bad clock management, very questionable play calling (the beginning of the year, every 3rd down play was a shotgun draw to Grant for 0 or a loss of yards), and his challenges are just brutal sometimes. Im good rollin with him, but I would love more than anything to have Gruden come in here and get us to the SB. I love that guy
     
  10. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I had one problem with MM's playcalling, which he corrected later on the season: lack of screens and trick plays.

    For a WCO, it's imperative you run screens and some tricky plays, like reverse and such. And it wasn't happening early in the season.

    It may've been because BJax wasn't in the lineup, but that's not an excuse.

    It doesn't need to happen like in Philly, where in every 3 plays, one is a screen.

    But you need to keep defenses honest. When we started doing it (mainly to the right, with Sitton leading the way), we got better...
     
  11. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Mack, are you serious? I respect your right to your opinion, but Gruden won a super bowl with another coach's players. After that season he coached the Bucs to a 45/51 record the next 6 seasons. He is the classic media man with the great scowl, good looks and ability to fill airtime without saying anything worthwhile--perfect for T.V. I'll take McCarthy any day.
     
  12. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Agreed.

    And moreso, he only won because the stupid Oakland coach used the exact same playcalls as Gruden used in his time in there.

    I don't think very much about Gruden...
     
  13. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    MM should have questionable play calling. That's how you know he is doing his job. He runs an aggressive style offense. Which means he can call a risky play anytime during the game he might win he might lose but that's how you get the big plays. His play calling shows up on the score board. Every one will question a coaches or coordinators play calling. That's because if they fail, immediately we know what call would give us a first down etc... Not everyone will pick the right play call every time. When they do pick the perfect play they look like a genius dont they. Have you ever questioned a play call when it goes for a touchdown. No you only question a play when it fails. You guys may question MM play calling and say it's terrible I call it genius.
     
  14. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I'd personally rather have a Super Bowl ring and then 5 mediocre seasons than to have a bunch of good seasons with no ring.
     
  15. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    With the way this team is headed I think we can win a championship and not follow it up with 5-6 mediocre seasons. Unlike other teams we have the pieces in place and they'll remain there for years to come.
     
  16. DergaSmash

    DergaSmash Cheesehead

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    I think MM is doing a pretty good job. Sure he has made mistakes but no one is perfect. I'm not sure that anyone can say Payton won the SB. He had players that won it as well. It wasn't a solo effort. As for bad playcalling, sure some plays can be bad calls but a no gain on a shotgun draw isn't an example of a bad play call, it is an example of poor execution. It's not madden football where a good play call suprises the defense and a big play happens. I think it comes down to execution. Someone tackled Grant for no gain and that was a result of one of the 11 offensive players failing to do his job on that play. I understand if the coach develops tendencies that the opposing coordinator can key in on and make adjustments, but I think execution plays a bigger role.
     
  17. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    MM has been learning on the job too. He had a lot of coaching experience just not as a HC. He screws up at times but all of them do. We can't diss him about running an offense! Last year we put up sick numbers despite having our QB sacked repeatedly. And MM was smart enough to know we needed a change in DCs and hired Capers. Our D should be better this year going into our second year in Capers' D scheme. I know I am excited about this coming season!
    :happy0005:
     
  18. aaronqb

    aaronqb Cheesehead

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    I think we are fine with MM. I don't believe he is one of the top coaches in the league, but he is in the upper tier. He has worked out a lot better than I thought when he was hired.

    He seems to have control of the team and his coaches and is not afraid to make big changes when he thinks things are moving in the wrong direction (changing all of the defensive coaches a year ago). He also is not afraid to take risks (Favre, going from 4-3 to 3-4 even though his best defensive player at the time - Kampman - was ill-suited to the 3-4).

    His biggest weakness is his game management and clock management. He is not one of the better game coaches and needs to step it up there. Those who are committed to their craft work hard on the things that need work. I would hope that MM also does this and can improve in this part of his "game".
     
  19. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I think, even if he didn't rally the players himself, if they wanted him out, they could've gotten it.

    The players are with him, most definitely.
     
  20. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I agree that it wasnt a solo effort, but man what balls of steel he had to call that onside kick
     
  21. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    Doesn't that remind you of Mccarthy? Mccarthy called an onside kick in that wild card game in the playoffs. Just goes to show you, both coachea are willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.
     
  22. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Yeah and I am glad we have someone that is willing to take that risk. I do worry about people overreacting though if it doesnt go our way.
     
  23. TheGiftedApe

    TheGiftedApe TheGiftedApe

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    He's really the head coach in name only, he really is the Quarterbacks coach, but he talks to the media, and takes responsibility as the head coach. He is a great quarterbacks coach, one of the best in the league. But in reality he is just an average Head Coach, but he makes up for it by putting good people around him, like capers etc..



    No need for change in GB anytime soon, unless we go back to back years without playoffs here I would be surprised if MM was gone.
     
  24. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I agree, Mccarthy successful because he's put top tier coaches around him like James Campen and Shawn Slocum LOL.

    In all seriousness, yes I do believe that Green Bay needs no coaching changes to the HC position, Mccarthy gets the job done end of story. Mccarthy is an awesome QB coach but to say that he's a puppet as a HC is rediculous. There is no HC out there that excels in coaching all the positions, offense and defense. Each HC has their own "specialty": Belichick - LBs, Sean Payton - QB, Tom Coughlin - WRs, Steve Spagnolou - D-line etc. etc.
     
  25. Mack_20

    Mack_20 Cheesehead

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    I wasnt saying I want MM to get fired or anything, I do like him as a coach.. I get really irritated with the play calling at times.. I don't know what it is that made me like Gruden so much, I just love the guys energy... I know he really hasnt built a team, but I think players want to play for him.. I could be wrong as well, im sure his style drives some players away, but its just my opinion. I hope MM stays for a long time, hell, if he stays here for a really long time, that pretty much means we're winning solid for a long time right?? haha
     

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