Chris Carter says......

[stuffin]

Here is an interesting take on the holdouts. Many of us do not like Chris Carter but he is pretty candid in this article.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cc-sixpoints050605&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Six Points: Cashing in

By Cris Carter, Yahoo! Sports
May 6, 2005


Yahoo! Sports' NFL analyst Cris Carter puts six points on the board on the contact demands of some of the league's top wide receivers

 

[arrowgargantuan]

not a bad article...thanks.

im surprised more people are commenting on that Santana Moss contract. thats blantant over-paying in every sense of the word. i said the same thing when they dished out all that money for Brunell. i honestly think i could save this franchise some money...just gimme a call before you make these deals guys.

 

[IPBprez]

I agree with your line of thinking, AG ----

But what if he doesn't make the Pro Bowl next year? He's only had one really outstanding season. He's in the fourth year of a five-year contract, but I would not extend it. And I don't think the Green Bay Packers will, either.

I also tend to agree (what?) with what Cris Carter extends as a proper approach, here too!
IF THEY WANT TO give JW, a simple bonus upgrade - then, that's fine -otherwise - it's "see ya later, alligator!"

We'll see and very soon, I'm thinking!

 

[PWT36]

Chris Carter has matured and makes sense, he is "right on" with his comments on holding out. The Packer will force Javon Walker to fullfill his contract and so will the Eagles force T.O. fullfill his contract. Both teams salary cap position demands that they do so. if not, many Eagle and Packer players will be lining up at the office doors of the Chief Financial officers of both teams to re do their contracts ( example: Ahman Green and Grady Jackson of the Packers.)

 

[sixone220]

yep, if you give in to javon now, you open a whole new can of worms.

 

[slackerbacker]

I would disagree w/ Carter on this. I understand both sides of the issue and a number of the possible ramifications of each action. Perhaps most importantly is the message it sends to the other players on the team if GB re-works (gives in to Walker's demands) deal. However, because of the option on Walker's contract in 07, Walker, for all intensive purposes, is in his RFA season right now. He is an UFA after next season so that makes this off season his RFA year. I think he's proved he's a emerging star in the NFL w/ his play over the last two seasons...he deserves the raise. If he had been classified a RFA this off season, he would have received a major pay increase w/ GB or somewhere else. Likewise, re-working or extending his contract now would more than likely be much less expensive for GB in the long run. What I don't understand is why Walker didn't make this an issue during the RFA period when GB could have done something about it? They don't have the money to do anything for him now. I think a lot of this issue could be born out of the "G. Jackson/C. Hunt" situation? Walker has out performed Driver and Ferguson, yet Fergy is the guy w/ a contract extension. No wonder Walker and Jackson want a bigger cut...they deserve it. GB needs to find a way to appease Walker w/out insulting the rest of the team. He needs to be on the field making playes; GB doesn't need another MM situation over Walker.

 

[spaulding]

You can't give him a raise until after this season. If you restructure his contract now, the whole team will want their contracts restructured within the next 2 years.

 

[slackerbacker]

Spaulding, I understand what you and others are saying, but GB needs to find a way to make this work....extension, bonus, verbal commitment....something? Not understanding the cap and all its peculiarities, why wasn't JW a RFA this off-season? Is it because he has the option in 07? I think people on the other side of this issue need to understand that JW should have been a RFA this season were it not for his contract technicalities, would have been tendered as a 1st rd player and would have received a huge salary raise w/ GB or most likely somewhere else.

 

[spaulding]

He wanted the security of a 6 year contract, the last year of which was voided because of playing time incentives. Fe signed what he thought was a fair deal. And he took $4 million in bonuses the first 2 years while producing little. The only solution for Walker is to play out this year. If the Packers renegotiate with Walker with 2 years left on the contract it would KILL team chemistry. The only teammates that wouldn'y got to Thompson to renegotiate their deals would be Favre, KGB, and Hunt. Grady was already grumbling about it, Harris could have a claim because of the way CB's are paid nowadays, and what about what's left of our o-line? Flanagan is a Pro Bowler and Tauscher and Clifton very well could be. They can't do anything with Walker until next year period. You can't sacrifice the team for one guy's one good year when he underwhelmed the previous 2.

 

[slackerbacker]

Believe me, I here what you and others are saying and it has a lot of merit; I'd just like to see them avoid a Win-Lose situation w/ JW. I think they can do it another way if JW truely wants to get it done...finacial security can be acheived in a number of ways...??? I do think it's different because JW is in his first contract. The other guys you mentioned are older, declining, or have an injury past. JW is clearly the type of player any team would like to build their offense around. He's young, strong, athletic, injury free and most of all very productive. I don't think you can say that about the others you mentioned. No doubt, the agreement would have to have the right "spin" on it to avoid the negative effects your eluding to. Can't Miller, John Deer or someone else up there offer the guy a TV commerical or something? I am still confused on his actual contract. Isn't 07 his option to acept or decline? I'd like to here some others comment on the RFA side of this. Again, if 07 is his option to accept or decline, doesn't that make 06 his UFA year and this off season his RFA year? If I am close to being right, the case could be made for re-working his deal w/out having to do everyone elses; he

 

[spaulding]

from NFL.COM

"Restricted free agents are players who have completed three accrued seasons of service and whose contracts have expired."

By signing the contract he did he will skip RFA. He will be considered an UFA when he voids the last year of his contract. If he chooses to sit out this year he will still have 2 years remaining on his contract. He has no leverage. He's had one good year. I don't consider that very productive, I consider that benefitting from playing behind. Look at his game stats. His best games were against horrendous teams everybody else burned as well. You don't think Flanagan, Favre-3 time MVP , and KGB have been productive? They've been to as many Pro Bowls as Walker. Why don't they have the right to renegotiate? Did you see what happened to the D without Grady? He could make the claim he's as important to the D as Walker is to the O. Harris is the best player in the defensive backfield and could claim he's underpaid compared to what players like Ken Lucas and Kelly Herndon are being paid to play the same position.

 

[IPBprez]

Agreed - He would "still" have to work thru TWO MORE YEARS of his Contrtact and HE HAS NO, as Spaulding points out, NO LEVERAGE to speak of... other than threats and temper tantrums..... Sad, when you look at it in that light.

Actually, Spalding, this could be the emergence of a larger scenario being played out by the NFL/Players Association/Union. We've all seen this as a growing tactic amongst, usually, the more media-popular Players... and usualy it also involves the Younger players, as well.... as opposed to the Emmit Smiths and Brett Favres.

Are they attempting to change things without re-writing the Contract agreement?

Your call.....

 

[spaulding]

I think Rosenhaus is making a play because the NFL's Collective Bargaining Agreement is set to expire and he's wants to get as much as he can while he can.

 

[eastcoastpacker]

I just read on NFL.com about the collective bargining agreement.It said up till this year,you could sign someone and spread out the signing bonus for six years.But it runs out in 2010 and you can only sign the new draft picks for 5 years on the signing bonus.So if you pay out the same as last year,it has to be paid in 5 years,that is alot more money to pay out.Where do you get the money to redo anyone's conteact? :wall: :doh:

 

[spaulding]

from ESPN.COM
"Tagliabue also predicted that so much time would be spent trying to find a solution and coming to consensus that not a lot of time would be spent in the Maui sun this week. The clock is ticking. The collective bargaining agreement expires in 2008. There is an uncapped year in 2007. Long-term deals are becoming more difficult to do because signing bonuses can only be prorated for five years, and that term drops to four in 2006."

 

[slackerbacker]

And so the wheel turns. It's not hard to see that there are many more issues here, on many fronts, than originally suggested....everyone is trying to protect themselves for the long term. Thanks for the clarification on JW's contract. If I understand it right, his RFA year (even though he will not be classified as such) is at the end of this upcoming 2006 season. If that's the case, I totally agree JW needs to shut his mouth, get to camp and have another very good season before he asks for anymore money. I do believe GB would be smart to try and rework his deal @ that time.

 

[spaulding]

Exactly. He came in the league at 24 and signed a 6 year deal. He basically gave up 2 years of free agency. Yeah, he'll be and UFA when he voids the last year and it expires, but he'd also be 29. He should have had a 3 year deal. Idiot.

 

[IPBprez]

The interesting part - is where Teams will now be limited across how many years they can spread a contract.... The days of Brett Favre spreading the contract across (what) 10 years (?) - are long gone!

And, I hear that the Owners are getting ready to tackle "head-on" the issue which is revolving around both Mike McKenzie, Terrel Owens & Javon Walker - along with many others... and as Barney on Mayberry says ----

"Nip this one in the bud"

 

[slackerbacker]

Spaulding, I think I had it until you put that 2 year comment in there. The upcoming season (2006) will be his 4th yr. What season will he have the option to void, 2007, 2008 or both? He'll be an UFA at the end of the 2007 year right? :shock:

 

[spaulding]

2007 is the year he would void, making him an UFA after the 2006 season, which would be his 5th season of service time.

 

[PWT36]

Slickvision- you are on the wrong side of this issue with Walker's hold out. I don't know where you got your idea about 7 years. There has been nothing in media concerning 7 years. It is like I posted in my first posting on this topic. I read many articles on this problem with Walker's holdout. This is strictly between Walker (his agent Drew Rosenhaus) and the Packers. He will not play for the amount of money in last two years of his contract, hence his hold out. Walker want his money now!!!! That it!! The Packers cannot do this because of salary cap conditions especially with Ahman Green and Grady Jackson. If the Packer do , Those two will be lining up at the door of Chief Financial Officier Andrew Brandt, looking for their payday. Walker received $3M signing bonus just for signing his 5 yr contract. That was given to Walker for his potential as WR for the Packers. He finally achieved his potential in his 3rd year. However, he must play another productive year before the Packer's give him a big pay day. As it has been said a couple of times in postings on this topic. He has no leverage, he owes the Packers two years on his contract no matter what. There is no wiggle room on this. That is what you are looking for, there is none.The Packers must hold the line!! Just look at 49er and others when they got into real deep Cap Hell!! 49er cut just about anybody with contract that paid any kind of money except the minimum. Look at their roster, recognize anybody?

 

[arrowgargantuan]

wait a minute...Slick didn't even post in this thread.

i think you got mixed up p-dub36.

 

[IPBprez]

Well, maybe for this thread - but I do believe we've discussed this issue offhand in several of them....

As far as recognizing anybody - heck, look at the Buffalo Bills.... I think I know four guys, tops!
And the Redskins - if they weren't in DC - we'd never see any media hype on that team lately.... How many can ya name on the Cardinal Team? Seriously...

I do believe there's a more definitive answer about Walker over on the Packer site...
But as I think about it, it may be over on the PackersNews site..... I'll go research!

 

[arrowgargantuan]

i saw a nice Hunt/Bates article in the forums over there. i thought it was pretty good. im gonna go snag it and bring it back for the folks...maybe i'll even pretend like i wrote it. :wink:

 

[spaulding]

You know slick's got a rep when people blast him in topics he hasn't posted in.