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Charles Woodson and Wis. Protesters

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by JBlood, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. YoKramer

    YoKramer Cheesehead

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    From what I understand on the topic (not getting much attention here in Charlotte) the Unions CB isnt being taken away just changed correct? Still able to CB for pay just not retirement and medical. So why does everyone make the argument that the Unions are being stopped from CBs.
     
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  2. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

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    You're generally correct, though it would be more accurate to say that the only thing they'll be able to collectively bargain is salary - because I think the bill takes away their ability to CB all other details, like the terms of their working environment. (Please correct me, someone, if I'm mistaken.) The bill would require them to contribute a slightly larger amount to their own healthcare and pension funds, to avoid layoffs.

    Also, as I understand it: Wisconsin's state constitution requires that lawmakers balance the state's budget.

    Even some liberals, like the cartoonist whose work I posted a page or two back, think the teachers unions are being hysterical.

    One side note: I've recently read that even FDR - generally a hero to the left - was against collective bargaining for public employees. Perhaps we're seeing one reason why.
     
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  3. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    yep, FDR wrote this letter:
     
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  4. jkrelt

    jkrelt Cheesehead

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    You're correct, YoKramer. The CB would be restricted to just pay. However, this is a pressing issue because it is viewed as an unjust political power play; only diminishing worker rights of unions that did not support Walker for Governor (nurses, teachers, etc...) while protecting rights of unions that gave him campaign funding (police & firefigheters) but more importantly, it is also expected to create a domino effect across the nation; for example, in states like Ohio where the legislature has just proposed to effectively end CB for state workers:

    On Tuesday morning in Ohio, protesters from across the state began arriving in Columbus, as the state capital braced for the arrival of huge crowds of pro-union demonstrators. The legislature has planned new hearings on a bill that would effectively end collective bargaining for state workers and dramatically reduce bargaining power for local workers, like police officers and firefighters.
    NYTimes
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/23/us/23wisconsin.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    we dont pay that much in taxes if you look at things historically. Obama wants to go back to clinton era tax levels and people think thats crazy.

    How soon people forget that we paid over 90% in the 50s for the top bracket.
     
  6. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Right, but there were all kinds of tax loopholes and legal shelters that brought that percentage down to a much more reasonable level. Now those loopholes and shelters are closed, so a 90% model wouldn't work.

    The problem isn't with the amount of taxes we pay so much as how that money is managed and the level of entitlements it's created. The Ponzi scheme known as Social Security, for example, was never meant to be permanent. With more money going out than going in, it's insolvent in it's structure and is currently one of the biggest drains on our tax resources to date.
     
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  7. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

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    Wow...Democrats in Indiana have left their state now, rather than vote on their budget. It's as if they can't accept the results of the 2010 election. Not good.
     
  8. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    And public workers unions are a limb that need to die.
     
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  9. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    thats idiotic in a state that gives Daniel's a 60% approval rating. Ohio will be next
     
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  10. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Or it's a smart, strategic move. There's no way he could afford to have police and fire fighters go on strike, so go after the battle you can win now, and then go win the next one later.

    What he needs to do is pass a law that says it'll illegal for public workers to walk off the job, and doing so will get you fired. Then he can use that leverage to go after the firefighters and police officers.
     
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  11. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

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    People don't want to have to find extra money for government right now, and I don't blame them.

    A couple of questions for anyone who cares to answer (not looking for a debate, so I won't challenge any answers - just curious what people think): What percentage of your income do you think is reasonable to pay in taxes? What should Tax Freedom Day be in your state? (This refers to the day of the year you've worked in which your tax burden is satisfied. How many days per year do you think it's reasonable to work to support government?)
     
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  12. LombardiChick

    LombardiChick Win or lose, I love this team.

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    Holy moley (link to Indianapolis Star):

     
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  13. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    That's ridiculous, and every single congress person who skipped town should be recalled immediately.
     
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  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    there still are all kinds of tax loopholes and shelters today. always has been loopholes.

    Lets put it this way, its alot easier for me to find loopholes and pay less as I have been more successful than when I was a working stiff.

    Reguardless of what you think I think most people agree the tax code needs to be simplified.
     
  15. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    Fair Tax, simple and we know how much comes in each year, prices fall wages go up, income goes up.
     
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  16. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Oh, no argument from me that the tax code needs to be simplified. I see no reason why we shouldn't go to a flat taxing system, rather than a progressive system, and call it good.

    And yes, there are still all kinds of loopholes and shelters for people to stash money, but not nearly as many as there used to be.
     
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  17. Calhoun Lambeau

    Calhoun Lambeau Cheesehead

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    I think you have this wrong.

    "I HATE corporations. I think they're corrupt, vile leeches who really serve no purpose in today's society other than to extort society until they bleed them dry."

    There's a reason why 90% of our society has remained financially stagnant over the past 30 years. Corporations have taken over, squashed private sector unions, made record profits, slashed pay/benefits. I mean the writing's on the wall, all the rules favor big business, it's all about the bottom line, the middle class is dying while companies are making a killing paying pennies for manufacturing. But of course, the unions are evil. Unions are hardly perfect, good and bad, but come on, corporations are bamboozling this country and laughing all the way to the bank while most of this country is scrimping for everything. It's a ******* joke.
     
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  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    by no means do I support a complete straight tax though.
     
  19. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    No, pretty sure I have it right. I will side with corporations over unions every single day of the week.

    Do me a favor, and don't try to correct me, ok?
     
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  20. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7ZHrYL28M&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - When is the last time you saw such a CEO[/ame]
     
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  21. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  22. Calhoun Lambeau

    Calhoun Lambeau Cheesehead

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    Most of the time I side with private companies as well, I work for a non-unionized company and wouldn't support a union for it, but things are becoming way too one-sided. We can't rely on the government to help even the scale because private companies fund their campaigns and essentially run this country.

    It seems as though there's nothing helping the average worker out anymore and that we should just have to trust the companies we work for...it's a little unsettling watching one side win all the time.
     
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  23. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    F-ing koch brothers.
     
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  24. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  25. PackCrazed4

    PackCrazed4 Cheesehead

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    Yes, but we were also in a much better position economically in the 90s. The majority was financially stable (or, well, at least on the surface they were) and the unemployment rate was in the minimal 3-5% margin. Ask any economist and they will tell you that raising taxes during a recession is political and economical suicide.
     
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