Alex Van Pelt

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't read everything, but one name I have yet to see brought up this year is Alex Van Pelt, the Packer WR/QB Coach.

My first question to whoever put him in this position of coaching 2 positions is "Why?" Second question is "Is this common for NFL teams to put one coach in charge of both QB's and WR's?"

Everything I read about Van Pelt is positive, in that he is well respected for his coaching of QB's and offensive mind. However, does that make him qualified to coach Wide Receivers? I realize that QB's and WR's spend a lot of time together in practice, but if I look at the results on the field this year, someone isn't coaching the WR's very well.

Just throwing this out there and hoping for some input from others.

 

[Mondio]

I don't read everything, but one name I have yet to see brought up this year is Alex Van Pelt, the Packer WR/QB Coach.

My first question to whoever put him in this position of coaching 2 positions is "Why?" Second question is "Is this common for NFL teams to put one coach in charge of both QB's and WR's?"

Everything I read about Van Pelt is positive, in that he is well respected for his coaching of QB's and offensive mind. However, does that make him qualified to coach Wide Receivers? I realize that QB's and WR's spend a lot of time together in practice, but if I look at the results on the field this year, someone isn't coaching the WR's very well.

Just throwing this out there and hoping for some input from others.

I've wondered this too. there is obviously a disruption in the force this year and I fear this sunday millions will cry out and then be silenced, but what it is? I'd say our QB and receivers have looked as off this year as i've seen on any poor team. Easy to point at the coach, but i don't know enough of what he does to know. i know that MM, Bennet, Van Pelt, Clements all worked very well together for a while, i don't think they've forgotten how to coach football, but maybe the expanded or changed roles is causing a disconnect where there used to be a nice smooth flow? I don't know.

 

[TJV]

Van Pelt has been mentioned in posts talking about how top heavy the Packers coaching staff is on the offensive side of the ball. I think he has two positions because McCarthy wanted the QBs and WRs in position meetings together and because Clements and Bennett are both above position coaches on the organizational chart. The former is assistant HC/offense and as I've posted before, I wonder if there is an OC in the league with less power than Bennett. Because of the troubles there, IMO Bennett should return to coaching the WRs. I think he did a good job with them and with the RBs previously. Give him any title McCarthy wants but the WRs need more help than they're getting...

(For example, Winston Moss is assistant HC/Linebackers and as far as I know he has no responsibilities other than coaching the LBs.)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like all of us, I'm just searching for explanations. It just strikes me as odd that Van Pelt is coaching WR's in addition to QB's, especially given that his career seems to be focused on the QB Position. A quick look at several other NFL teams and I haven't found one team with a QB/WR Coach. I understand that there are assistants that probably do most of the skills coaching of the WR's, but it is pretty obvious to the casual observer that something isn't right with this group this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Van Pelt has been mentioned in posts talking about how top heavy the Packers coaching staff is on the offensive side of the ball. I think he has two positions because McCarthy wanted the QBs and WRs in position meetings together and because Clements and Bennett are both above position coaches on the organizational chart. The former is assistant HC/offense and as I've posted before, I wonder if there is an OC in the league with less power than Bennett. Because of the troubles there, IMO Bennett should return to coaching the WRs. I think he did a good job with them and with the RBs previously. Give him any title McCarthy wants but the WRs need more help than they're getting...

Agreed TJV. When you look at the Packer coaching staff list, it just doesn't seem fluid on the offensive side of the ball. Almost too many people with overlapping duties as well. I can see coaches standing on the sidelines during a game looking at each other saying "wait, weren't you the one that was suppose to coach that?"

Not sure if this shuffling and reorganization of coaching titles and duties happened during the off season because of MM's decision to step away from play calling, but it seems like it needs to be looked at again.

 

[El Guapo]

For a while I questioned Edgar Bennett's move to WRs coach, when his background and expertise was with RBs. However, he did an incredible job with that WR group through last year. It seemed to me with Clements the play caller in 2015 and Bennett's promotion to OC, Edgar was more of a quality control and preparation role similar to what Joe Philbin provided. If anything, I would say that they need to get Edgar more involved with the WR group again.

 

[TJV]

I think one of the reasons for the shuffling is McCarthy wanted to reward Clements with a better title (and more money?) and retain Bennett. But since McCarthy took back play calling - which according to what he said on his TV show involves more time in putting together the game plan, what the hell do Clements and Bennett do?

Continuity can be a good thing. For example, I wish the Packers hadn't lost John Schneider, Scot McCloughan, John Dorsey, and Reggie McKenzie from their personnel department over the last decade and a half (or at least not all of them). Promoting people in the organization helps to motivate them: If they do a good job they move up in the organization. But it can also led to being stale. Someone like Van Pelt can provide a new perspective but how much 'juice' does he have regarding the offense? This probably won't happen but IMO it would be a good idea to bring in an experienced OC from outside the organization and let Bennett return to positional coaching or let him pursue a real OC job elsewhere. Same with Clements - demote him or let him go. That at least would put someone with a fresh perspective directly reporting to McCarthy regarding the offense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Barring the impact of an undisclosed injury to Rodgers and taking into account the loss of Jordy, nothing else has changed this year with the offense, except the coaching staff. So to me, logic points to something the coaches have changed/not doing as a fundamental issue with the offense this year. I get the argument of "coaches don't drop balls, miss blocks, throw bad passes, etc." but coaches due find ways to correct these problems if they have skilled coachable players and these seem to be the same players as last year, that were performing at a much higher level.

If the units production was flipped and the Defense was the one having a really off year, would Dom Capers still be around?

 

[Half Empty]

Barring the impact of an undisclosed injury to Rodgers and taking into account the loss of Jordy, nothing else has changed this year with the offense, except the coaching staff. So to me, logic points to something the coaches have changed/not doing as a fundamental issue with the offense this year. I get the argument of "coaches don't drop balls, miss blocks, throw bad passes, etc." but coaches due find ways to correct these problems if they have skilled coachable players and these seem to be the same players as last year, that were performing at a much higher level.

If the units production was flipped and the Defense was the one having a really off year, would Dom Capers still be around?

Well, it's worked for him, so far.

 

[TJV]

Barring the impact of an undisclosed injury to Rodgers and taking into account the loss of Jordy, nothing else has changed this year with the offense, except the coaching staff. So to me, logic points to something the coaches have changed/not doing as a fundamental issue with the offense this year. I get the argument of "coaches don't drop balls, miss blocks, throw bad passes, etc." but coaches due find ways to correct these problems if they have skilled coachable players and these seem to be the same players as last year, that were performing at a much higher level.

The health of the OL has obviously changed and IMO that's a significant part of the problems on offense. Also, just having the same players doesn't mean you have the same production, particularly for young players. Hayward is a case in point: Compare his rookie season to this season and last. He played in all 16 games in the past two seasons and hasn't had near the impact of his first season. It was just one game but compare Adams' performance in the Dallas game last season vs. any game this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The health of the OL has obviously changed and IMO that's a significant part of the problems on offense. Also, just having the same players doesn't mean you have the same production, particularly for young players. Hayward is a case in point: Compare his rookie season to this season and last. He played in all 16 games in the past two seasons and hasn't had near the impact of his first season. It was just one game but compare Adams' performance in the Dallas game last season vs. any game this season.

I would tend to disagree on the player regression part, since it also could be said that players get better the next season.

Also, in the way of injuries on offense, yes the O-line has been nicked up but last year the O-line went through some injuries as well, both Barclay and Tretter ended up on IR and Bulaga, Sitton and Lang had their fair share of nagging injuries. I would agree with you that the O-line has not performed up to the level it did in 2014, but not all of that is due to injuries IMO.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2014_injuries.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/2015_injuries.htm

 

[TJV]

Compare the play of the OL in the last half of last season to their play over the last 10 games this season and if you don't see a significant difference, we aren't watching the same team. I attribute most of that to injuries that are having a greater effect this year than last year. (BTW having Barclay on IR was probably a plus. ) And which players on offense to you believe have gotten better this season vs. last?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Compare the play of the OL in the last half of last season to their play over the last 10 games this season and if you don't see a significant difference, we aren't watching the same team. And which players on offense to you believe have gotten better this season vs. last?

no comparison in level of play of the O-line last season VS this season. All I was saying was the poor play can't be attributed solely to injuries.

As far as offensive players that have stepped their game up this year over last, none. Which is my point. The organization relied on the hope/idea that having the same 10 guys on offense equate to an even better offense due to experience together as well as younger guys; Adams, Lindsley, Bahk, R. Rodgers, Lacy stepping up their games. The younger players have not only not improved, some of them have regressed. This is why I brought up the idea that coaching in one form or another is a key ingredient into explaining the sudden demise of a once productive offense. Yes, injuries to the O-line and the loss of Jordy have to be considered too, but those are variables you can't control every year....coaching you can.

 

[Mondio]

I think you meant they've regressed, but I digress

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think you meant they've regressed, but I digress

I'm lexdyslic

 

[Mondio]

I'm lexdyslic

I comtelyp studnerdand

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I comtelyp studnerdand

Good to hear I am not the only one who took a goat to a toga party!

 

[TJV]

no comparison in level of play of the O-line last season VS this season. All I was saying was the poor play can't be attributed solely to injuries.

I thought "all you were saying" was, "nothing else has changed this year with the offense, except the coaching staff" which excluded the play of the OL. We disagree about the impact of injuries on the play of the OL. Sitton, even as he appeared on the injury report, was fantastic last season, he's not this season. IMO both Bakhtiari and Bulaga have been more impacted by injuries this season than the second half of last season. I would also say while coaching is important, players like Hayward have regressed without a change in coaching staff or scheme. Sometimes poor play and regression is on the players. Unfortunately, Brandon Bostick is a classic example of this. On that critical play in the NFCCG, he said they have practiced it "dozens if not hundreds of times before". He said Andrew Quarless lined up next to him and told him, “I got this guy, you got this guy,” he said. “You know your assignment?” “Yeah,” Bostick said. “I got this.” That's as much as a coach and a teammate can do yet Bostick did exactly what he was coached not to do.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I thought "all you were saying" was, "nothing else has changed this year with the offense, except the coaching staff" which excluded the play of the OL.

Right, I meant this offense returned 10 starters this year from a very productive 11 last year, so expectations were legitimately high. You are correct, injuries and a drop in production have played a role in the offense not clicking. But how do 10 guys individually and collectively get worse? I could understand if it was just Adams, but it isn't. Even the guys coming in to replace injured or unproductive guys are stumbling. Last year we had injuries as well as a few guys under perform, but it seemed like the coaches seemed to find answers.

As I believe you said a month or two ago, call it the "Perfect Storm" of injuries, mistakes, play calling, etc. But I would like to think that we have coaches capable of adjusting the mast and sails and navigating us through the storm. Maybe this year, was one of those that no matter who was Captaining this ship, it just kept taking on too much water and was doomed to sink. I hope MM and CO. find bigger buckets to bail with next year.

 

[TJV]

As I believe you said a month or two ago, call it the "Perfect Storm" of injuries, mistakes, play calling, etc. But I would like to think that we have coaches capable of adjusting the mast and sails and navigating us through the storm. Maybe this year, was one of those that no matter who was Captaining this ship, it just kept taking on too much water and was doomed to sink. I hope MM and CO. find bigger buckets to bail with next year.

Me too, but for this season remember how the movie "The Perfect Storm" (and the true story it was based upon) ended?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Me too, but for this season remember how the movie "The Perfect Storm" (and the true story it was based upon) ended?

I saw the movie and have forgotten.... was Capers fired?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

****SPOILER ALERT****

Looked it up, the suspense was killing me.......it Sunk and all died.

I think we have enough life rafts to get us to next year and that defensive ship is sailing pretty well now! Like most here, I'm just throwing out theories, not looking for anyone necessarily to be fired, cut or traded. I think we have a great organization and coaches, but as I started this thread and you pointed out, the way the offensive coaching staff is structured, makes you wonder if something there isn't right. I think we saw this after the NFCCG last year with most of the blame being put on Slocum and MM giving up play calling to concentrate more on the big picture. Well this may be another off season when the coaching deck needs to be reshuffled.

 

[adambr2]

I would say

1) It's not a very good time right now to be known as the QB/WR coach for the Packers

and

2) MM probably overthought the coaching responsibility changes last offseason and the duel responsibilities and lack of structure probably has a lot to do with the lack of structure and confusion in the offensive execution.

 

[ls1bob]

The coaching structure/setup/confusion has to trickle on the field,otherwise WHY does it take so long to run a play after a successful play/gain on the previous play and they end up having to call a TO when it isn't warranted? It is almost like they are overthinking what to call so they can get a good gain but instead they just screw the pooch by calling the TO and don't get the 1st down.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Clements, McCarthy and Bennett working on the offensive game plan?

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