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AJ Hawk Average

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TOPackerFan, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    aight pack93. tell me 5 wills you would want more than Hawk then.
     
  2. brennan1884

    brennan1884 Cheesehead

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    gooooood point!!!
     
  3. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Again right at this moment.. long term, can't think of one.. other than maybe Vilma or DJ Williams and then move Hawk to Strong Side and let him play over the TE much like Wayne Simmons in his hayday.. remember the 49er game.. he was a large part of shutting down the niners O and Brent Clark that day.

    Keith Bullock
    Lance Briggs
    Julian Peterson
    Mike Peterson
    Ernie Sims
    Takeo Spikes
    Jonathan Vilma
    Micheal Boley - ATL

    A guy or two that should be playing the wil
    DJ Williams
    Thomas Howard


    Would I trade anyone on that list for him.. no.. but they are playing at a higher level at this point in Hawk's career, IMO.
     
  4. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    You mean Brent Jones? LOL
     
  5. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Yep.. sorry.. looks like I got the case of amnesia. :razz:

    Thinking Dwight Clark that overgrown...
     
  6. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    So you're not taking into consideration scheme into any of this?
     
  7. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Sure am, tell me other than the Titan's line who is playing better ball than ours with guys on this list. The Jags are inconsistent upfront and wind up getting their backers killed..

    Okay, tell me how you take a Wil out of a scheme? Other than blitz packages and zone drops on passing plays, how do you take him out or highlight him in a 4-3.. man up scheme? I really want to hear this?
     
  8. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    Like I've said before I think guys that play in a tampa 2 on that list would be nobodies in this scheme. That's not to say I don't like any of the guys on that list.

    If we are talking about big plays I think consideration in the roles of the player on their team has to be taken into consideration. You're listing guys that are middle backers. First you are saying top 5 will and then listing guys that don't even play will.
     
  9. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Tell me how the Wil in the Tampa two are placed in positions to make more impact players than our press coverage where we are begging them to throw the ball in the middle of the field?

    You point to the Tampa Two.. so explain how it helps the Wil by placing him in better playmaking positions?
     
  10. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I'd put him within the top 20 linebackers in football right now. Probably in the 10 to 20 range. I think this article is a little harsh but closer to being right than wrong. At this point in his career he is rather average right now. However it's still early in his career. Nick Barnett is in his 5th season and he's just starting to have a Pro Bow like year for the Pack.

    I think Hawk has had some solid games this year. He was great against Kansas City. Came up with a huge play and made a couple of nice tackles. I believe some said it already but when he was on Tony G he really played him better than anyone on the team. He covered him better than Bigby, Poppinga, Bush, and Harris did. So Hawk is definitely anything but a bust right now. He's not living up to the 5th overall pick but he's progressing and I really dont have a doubt that he'll be a superstar some day.
     
  11. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    I can put it pretty simply. In the tampa 2 the Will backer is more free lance. In our scheme it isn't. Hawk is not a free lance guy in our scheme. Sometimes I wish he was...ever watch him at OSU? Heacock and Snyder placed Hawk ALL OVER the field. Leroy Butler was talking about it recently how the staff doesn't "use" Hawk's abilities enough(at least in his opinion). Says he would free lance Hawk and run him until his toungue hit the ground.
     
  12. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Name one that list that is a playing the MLB right now?
     
  13. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    He is playing uncovered with an open read on the play, how is that not free lance? He has the same contain responsiblity as Derrick Brooks has in Tampa.. so how is it less "free" than in a Tampa Two?
     
  14. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    Vilma is an inside backer
    DJ Williams(I know you said "should" but he hasn't been any kind of a playmaker at EITHER will or mike)
    Mike Peterson has been the mike for the Jags for the past 3-4 years.
     
  15. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    No he doesn't. Our LBers cover gaps. They aren't "the same responsiblities" and the defenses themselves are quite different. It isn't all equal as to say "ok you're the will now go make plays"....
     
  16. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Vilma plays on the outside in there 3-4 set should have been in the below category and I stand corrected on Peterson.. I swore he played outside weakside..

    Should have looked them up before posting them...
     
  17. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    I know it seems Vilma SHOULD be playing the outside because of his size in the 3-4, but he plays the inside. They tried Bryan Thomas as an ILB last year and then replaced him with Eric Barton which actually makes more sense. That's kind of beside the point anyway because the responsiblities aren't the same in our system as compared to a 3-4 D.
     
  18. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    I could argue this point all day.. you still haven't explained the responsibilites of the Wil in the Tampa two..

    Your first read beyond run vs pass in both of the sets is inside outside... meaning is the playing going to the edges.. since I am the first line of defense that is my responsiblity.. are they comming outside either run or pass.. after that read it is the short zone in both unless you are playing man up.. which you pointed out correctly that he is staying in on alot of those 3 reciever sets.. meaning they trust him to drop into the short zone.. same as the Tampa Two except our drops seem to be narrower in design.

    On running plays, you don't think there is gap responsiblity with the Tampa two.. we aren't talking zone blitz schemes.. straight up tampa two coverage is almost exclusively an secondary scheme to protect the corners.. it weakness is up the center of the field if you can get the safeties moving.. On running plays.. depending on the d-line calls your gaps are fluid.. much like the front we play.. expect in most tampa two you have fast de that shoot up the field and the backers have to cover more interior as well.. those maybe your reasoning for more tackle opportunities.
     
  19. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    Hawk isn't playing hardly any zone. Well maybe you can consider it a zone because he either boxes the TE's or mans them up(whats the plural version of that?) He covers the flats quite a bit such as the backs and such. He doesn't get thrown at very much. Someone had the gaul to complain he "allowed" two catches to Jeremy Shockey.

    I didn't say there "isn't a gap responsiblity" but is certainly looser than the responsiblity in our scheme. This scheme as well as the Tampa 2 is all around the league along with the 3-4 along with the 4-6(in a couple places where the Ryan boys are coaching). Tampa 2 Dline also depends on speed at their DT(with the exception of Shaun Rogers) which is also why the Lions made converted DE Corey Redding the highest paid DT in the business. That's another reason it's suspect to the run up the middle(MM was talking about it). When I watch Hawk play the run he runs to a spot. He doesn't chase the ballcarrier. That's more what I meant by free lance(at least in the run). Our defense funnels everything to the middle. LJ runs against our nickle package and Hawk runs to the sideline as fast as possible EVEN surpassing LJ in the process. He runs to a spot. Funnel it back to the middle.

    You're right, though. We could go all day on this and not agree.
     
  20. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Agreed.. plus i need to get back to work here.. :)
     
  21. Cory

    Cory Cheesehead

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    haha it's all good. We both just want the Packers to win!
     

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