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Ahmad Carroll

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by IndiPack, Aug 3, 2006.

  1. IndiPack

    IndiPack Cheesehead

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    Posted August 3, 2006

    Turning the corner

    It's time to put up or shut up for Carroll

    By Pete Dougherty
    pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com


    Ahmad Carroll has been the new Terrell Buckley: small, fast, cocky, high strung, mistake prone and a lightning rod.


    The question is whether Carroll, unlike Buckley, can recover from a bad start to his career as a first-round cornerback with the Green Bay Packers and win over his coaches, teammates and fans.


    Carroll, a third-year pro, has been humbled some by two years of NFL struggles and the Packers' decision this past offseason to spend big on free agent Charles Woodson to replace him as a starter. But in training camp, he's remained the loud, smack-talking player on the field he was his first two seasons, so he's not likely to get the benefit of the doubt from observers inside and outside the organization.


    He's won the praise, however, of the Packers' new coaching staff for strides this offseason and his performance in training camp. Whether it's empty promise or the progression from liability to asset will be revealed come the regular season in his role as the team's nickel cornerback.


    "(Cornerbacks coach) Lionel (Washington) and myself may be the only two," said secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer, "but we feel very strongly about Ahmad Carroll. I couldn't be more pleased with him."


    Carroll's performance as nickel back could be crucial to the Packers' pass defense precisely because they signed Woodson to a deal that includes about $10 million in first-year bonuses and salary. If Woodson performs anywhere near the level of his pay, he and Al Harris could form one of the top starting cornerback duos in the NFL. That, in turn, would put a target on Carroll's back, because offenses probably will game plan to attack him in three- and four-receiver sets rather than either of the starters.


    Schottenheimer saw that dynamic in 1997, when he was in his third season as the Kansas City Chiefs' secondary coach. He had one of the best starting cornerback tandems in the NFL with James Hasty and Dale Carter. Mark McMillan was the nickel back.


    After that season, Schottenheimer broke down all the man-to-man coverages and counted the pass attempts to each of those cornerbacks' man. He remembers Hasty having 45 throws to his man, Carter 55 to his and McMillan about 100 to his.


    "That's why you have to have quality people," Schottenheimer said.


    Carroll has been a lightning rod of criticism for a combination of factors. The biggest is that he was a first-round pick who had a terrible time with penalties and getting beat in coverage his first 1½ years in the league. He showed some improvement down the stretch last season, but continued to turn off some people within the organization who viewed him as immature and resistant to coaching.


    He did nothing to help himself this offseason when he was arrested on misdemeanor chargers after a run-in with police at a bar in Fayetteville, Ark.


    More to the point, Carroll's behavior on the field during offseason practices and in training camp often do little to suggest to he's matured much. In practice, his celebrations continue to be demonstrative and loud when he makes a play.


    "I try to tell him to tone it down a little bit," said Harris, "especially in practice, because the plays you make in practice you're supposed to make."


    At least some within the Packers write that off to Carroll's youth — though he's a third-year pro, he turns 23 Friday. The NFL, however, is full of young players who aren't as demonstrative as Carroll.


    Carroll wasn't available for comment during the abbreviated time the locker room was open to reporters Wednesday. Though he's far from universally liked, there are no obvious signs he's a divisive figure. Harris calls him a close friend.


    "He can be annoying sometimes," Harris said, "but I love him to death, and I'd do anything for him. That's the honest truth."


    Even with Carroll's celebrations and trash talking, Schottenheimer and Harris argue he has matured in the last year.


    "He's listening to Speedy (Washington)," Harris said. "This whole situation is humbling, when you go from a No. 1 corner to the third corner. That's all it is, you just have to humble yourself. I think he's done that."


    Schottenheimer says it's shown in Carroll's work ethic. He said Carroll has taken the most snaps among cornerbacks in training camp, and is the first to volunteer if someone asks for rest.


    "If he goes out this year and has a lot of problems, then people are going to be on his butt," Schottenheimer said. "But I'm seeing a kid maturing as an NFL player. Does he still talk? Yeah, he still talks. That's what he's going to do."


    Carroll has had a decent start to training camp, including a good read to make one of the five interceptions quarterback Brett Favre threw on Monday.


    But Wednesday, he had a forgettable day in which he was beaten badly at least four times during one-on-one and team drills. In one-on-ones in the red zone, Donald Driver smoked him on a slant for an easy touchdown from Favre, and on Carroll's next turn, Marc Boerigter beat him along the sidelines for another touchdown. In the next team drill, two receivers who probably won't make the team — Chris Francies and Chad Lucas — beat him on fade routes.


    Schottenheimer acknowledged Carroll's rough day and attributed it to hitting the training-camp wall. Besides leading the cornerbacks in snaps, he returns kickoffs in every practice.


    That explanation won't placate some critics, but Schottenheimer predicts Carroll will win most of them over.


    "I'll go on the record saying this: They're going to like him a lot in the future," Schottenheimer said. "He's 22 years old, tomorrow or in the next couple days he'll be 23 years old, and he's going to be in this league a long time."
     
  2. 4packgirl

    4packgirl Cheesehead

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    good Lord - are you tryin to give trom a heart attack??? LOL!!

    sounds like his mouth is still running...maybe he can back it up this year?!
     
  3. bavpb

    bavpb Cheesehead

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    l-h-v-t-b-b-e-t-w.
     
  4. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    We can only hope for that.


    When Terry Glenn err Charles Woodson goes down with an injury we're gonna need this kid to step up his game.
     
  5. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I've mentioned this on several other strings, but this is what happens when a coach/gm jumps to get a guy and takes him in slot he shouldn't be in. Carroll was a junior eligible player. He's very small for d-back and hadn't developed the tehnique to play in the NFL, but because he's first round choice, he comes in cocky, arrogant, and thinks he's ready. It was another in a long line of bad picks for the former GM. We've heard since his rookie year that he doesn't take coaching and is a loudmouth and immature. Didn't anyone question those things about him when he was in college?

    Truthfully I hope they can develop him. I think he has some talent, but until he's ready to be coached he's not going to meet his potential. He just another in a long line of kids who come to the nfl with talent and bad attitude. Years later when people talk about them, they say, he was talented player who never became a player.
     
  6. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    that article is scarier than anything Stephen King has ever written
     
  7. paxvogel

    paxvogel Cheesehead

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    Sounds like he is getting better. Maybe Trom is jealous because someone has a bigger mouth than he does. :) I still like the kid and think he will be a ten year pro like Buckley if we just give him a chance. This year will determine.
     
  8. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    ROFL
    :beer: :bow: :jumpsmile: :yeah:
     
  9. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    I think Carroll will do alright covering the other teams 3rd best receiver. Harris and Woodson will lock down the corners.
     
  10. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    dude, what is your problem? go **** yourself.


    as far as the article said, put up or shut up year for the punk.

    Hopefully the 'punk' has a great year, and is the nickel back of the year(an award I will create just for him) and the packers do great things(its all about GB doing good things, not individual players doing well\bad).

    But I wont be expecting him to do good things. I heard this last year. How he had matured, had a year under his belt, etc etc. Uh huh.
     
  11. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Little harsh, don't ya think???

    BAD ZERO...BAD ZERO!!! :Evil:
     
  12. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    If it was regarding a mature person, I'd have to agree. However, that is far from the case. Said person's type is why many people hate the internet. When I can't post a reply without him assuming its an attempt to argue, something is wrong. Very wrong. Mature people, if they see someone wanting an argument, they don't stoke the fire, they ignore them and walk away. He instead stokes the fire and gets away with it here because if he getse banned he'll whine is *** off until its overturned. I know this for a fact because when I was mod he did nothing but smooch my *** and ask me what to say to Ryan to get reinstated.

    But seriously, why are we wasting time discussing this stupid crap? This is a Packers forum. I shouldn't have slid that comment in there and stooped down to his level, for that I apologize and I was wrong for it.




















    Ahmad. I think he's gonna be okay. T Buck turned out to be a so-so guy. Dependable nickel back I believe in Miami but he also had some studs on the corners an good D line. There's an article at packernews.com that says its put up or shut up time for Amhad. I 100% agree. If he flops again this year or doesnt improve, its time to cut'em lose!
     
  13. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Yeah, Ahmad must have a split personality....have you ever watched him in an interview, say on packers.com? He seems like a humble guy just looking to win and help this team become successful. (THAT'S ONE SIDE)

    The next thing I hear is him jawing and talking sh*t after every play to the receivers in training camp like some thug and even Al Harris has told him to tone it down (THE OTHER SIDE)

    I think the article and you are right...if Carroll wants a future with the Green Bay Packers, the time is now...
     
  14. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I read in that article that Ahmad is always the first one to take more reps. That was very encouraging to read. He has the passion, lets hope he can produce on the field! Imagine three stud DBs back there? OMG that'd be hot!
     
  15. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Hell yeah...Carroll is going to see the action on 3rd and medium to long yardage situations. You know teams are going to see him in those situations and make him grow up in a hurry. Woodson and Harris will lock down the corners but Carroll is the one who is gonna have to make plays and keep his freakin' hands off the receivers!
     
  16. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I heard we brought Manuel in for his leadership so I would think he'd be near Carroll and should slap him up to get him straight. I also heard they think Charles Woodson will slide into the middle of the field in the nickel an dime packages.

    ARGH training camp comments make me think too much!!
     
  17. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    interesting. Zero gets to namecall all he wants apparently. If it was depack or myself, we would have gotten chewed our, or like I did, banned for 3 days. Nice. I'll stop crying about injustices though, thats Zeros area.
     
  18. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    you guys have been going at it fairly routinely for a while now.

    here's a crazy idea, don't talk to each other? thats fool proof.
     
  19. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Good thing some staff stepped in before I made'er cry a river so deep she'd drown in it.


    I've tried to get this thread back on Ahmad, let's keep that movement towards something INTERESTING instead of bickering. Thanks.

    GO AHMAD GO!!
     
  20. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    thats funny! It was funnier when i said it and linked your crybaby *** to the 'cry me a river' video. You're very unoriginal.

    I will not be responding to any more of your posts, zero, you are a tool. I ask that you do not respond to mine, or talk about me in other threads that i havent even posted on yet(that was very mature of you). Thank you, and go **** yourself.
     
  21. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Awwww. Did I make you fester a brownie in yer panties? Get over it. Staff has said not to talk to eachother so how about you obey the staff for a nice change and I'll gladly do the same. For a while.





    Now, I've tried to get this thread back on Ahmad, let's keep that movement towards something INTERESTING instead of bickering. Thanks.

    In fact, go HERE and support Ahmad! :)

    GO AHMAD GO!!
     
  22. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Where's Digs with his one of his classic metaphors/similes.
     
  23. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Good read,

    It is time to put up or shut up. If he plays like he has the last 3 years, I think Carroll is gone next off season. If he starts too come along (and remember he only has to prove himself as a nickel back) then he has a chance to stay with GB for a while. Personally I think it's too early to think he's turning the corner. I think by the 3rd pre season game we'll get a good look at him.
     
  24. kewlbeans

    kewlbeans Cheesehead

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    I will never understand all the hate many Packer fans have for Carroll. There are no statistical facts anyone can post that proves Ahmad Carroll isn't a capable starting CB in the NFL.
     
  25. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

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    He didn't do too well last season with the penelty flags and couldn't keep his hands to himself.

    Well, you know there is a time and place for everything...LOL
     

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