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A subtle change in the D?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by all about da packers, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Winston Moss was hired as the Asst. Head coach / Defense, by MM.

    On the surface it appears a well deserved promotion (Moss will still be LB coach), but beneath it all is this a subtle change to the D by McCarthy?

    Bates was recently hired with the same title as Moss, and he is running the D, while Slo is the new DC and he is second fiddle to Bates.

    Is this the same type of situation here, where Moss will maintain the current scheme but take over the playcalling?

    OR perhaps Moss will now be involved with Sanders in planning/preparing the D scheme/plays that will be used on Sundays?

    I just can't see McCarthy giving Moss the new title without it meaning something and bringing on some new responsibilities.

    What exactly are those responsibilities, in your opinion?
     
  2. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Mike oversees the entire team, but has lot of hands on the O, Sanders does the D, and sounds like Moss will have a hand in everything..

    From the press release

    " In his new role, the former NFL player will serve as McCarthy's primary aide and will expand his interactions with the entire football team. The team's linebackers coach in 2006, Moss will continue to oversee that group of extremely talented young players"

    I think Mike might have some concerns with the D...Not enough to let Sanders go, or anyone else RIGHT NOW..but wanted a guy in there to sort of help him out and have another set of eyes and ears there..Maybe this way mike can get an impartial assessment of what is going on with the D or any other area of the team..


    Lets just ask him to provide us with his new job description..
     
  3. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    Look a lot of these title changes are designed to keep guys from getting hired away since promotions are not compensated.

    VP of made up stuff
    GM
    VP On Field Operations
    Executive Head Coach
    Co-head Coach
    Assistant Head Coach
    Executive Coodinator
    Senior Coordinator
    Coordinator
    Co Coordinator
    Special Teams Coordinator
    Assistant Coordinator
    and a lot of other baloney titles.
    It allows a guy to get a raise for a good job and keeps the employee under the thumb of the team and less likely to take a job elsewhere. I allows for demotions without the cost of firing.

    Latteral moves to another team require compensation.
     
  4. dxbfan

    dxbfan Cheesehead

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    I thought the Philbin move was great but the Moss move suggests a lack of experience on MM's part.

    As a result of this I cant help but wonder how motivated Sanders is going to be, Moss while naturally excited by the promotion sounds confused,

    "Whenever (McCarthy) needs to bounce something off someone or needs a second ear, I'll be that person to help him out," Moss said. "We're still going through the process of finding exactly what we need to be doing."

    Asked about his relationship with Sanders, Moss said, "I don't think that's going to change. I'll still be the linebackers coach and I think Bob will still have his say with the defense."

    The problems with the defense was in the secondary, either Schotty should have been replaced or Sander should've been replaced if MM perceived him to be the cause of the problem.
     
  5. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Interesting dxb, you know there was something one of the beat writers reported the past season saying Sander's coverage scheme didn't suit the S at all, and that is why they struggled.

    Moss saying "Sanders will still have his say" seems interesting to me, will he still have his say in only the planning and preperation, with Moss taking over the playcalling duties? That is what I initally got from dwelling on that quote.

    Also LT, thanks for posting that. It is quite strange, IMO that Moss is now working with the entire team.... I mean er why exactly? He played as a LB, coached only LBs thus far, so what exactly makes him qualified to even be assisting on the O side of the ball?
     
  6. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I think too much is being made of this. Moss is still the LB coach, Sanders is still the coordinator. This is NOT a defensive position that Moss has earned, rather its being promoted to be McCarthy's right hand man.

    Check out the transcript of his conference from yesterday.
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    thats what i was trying to say..his right hand man..

    But why??

    IMO you dont give some one like Moss just a "title", there has to be some type of reasoning behind this move..

    Lot of other teams are doing this, and I wonder what these new postions are truly resonsible for..
     
  8. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I dunno, maybe it was done to make Sanders sweat a bit? I really don't see Moss threatening Sanders operation or taking over though.
     
  9. dxbfan

    dxbfan Cheesehead

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    Try this Z2C, you go to work tomorrow to find that someone who was part of your team and reported to you has been promoted to become your boss (or your boss's right hand man).

    Either Sanders is the right man to run the defense or he isnt. MM needs to stop pussyfooting and decide which it is.
     
  10. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Ironically, that has happened to me about 8 months ago. I've been with the company longer than anyone and he was trained by me. He has questions, he's advised to come to me for the answers, although thats the way the entire company is. It's not that I'm better than anyone, its that I care about detail more than everyone else and pride myself on being accurate. Anyhow, he got the position of one of the supervisors 'right hand person' position. I didn't think much of it, but its known that I want a lead position with the company so I was explained that I'm not a 'right hand person' type of ... person. And that when a lead supervisor position opens up, it's mine if I want it.

    What I gathered from the convo with the big boss was I'm not good at taking directions, I'm best at organizing and giving directions.

    I wasn't bothered by the move or lack there of. I figured whatever is best for the company I'm cool with. I still do the documents, help training, make graphics and pretty much everything else. Essentially I'm the go to person for everything and getting paid the no one person's pay lol.


    I can relate that to Moss and Sanders too.
     
  11. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    This is an interesting thread. Some of you, I'm sure, recall that Mike Sherman made Bob Slowik his assistant head coach even though he was only the DB coach at the time. Later, when Sherman canned Donatell, he promoted Slowik to DC. So maybe McCarthy is doing something similar, protecting a guy who he perceives as valuable and putting him next in line for DC if Sanders doesn't work out. If that's his line of thinking, it's not exactly a vote of confidence for Sanders.

    It may be a little uncomfortable for Sanders to work with another assistant coach who is simultaneously below him and above him on the chain of command. Hopefully he will have the same attitude about it as Zero and will not take it personally and get paranoid.
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Very good thinking Greg..
     
  13. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    good call greg... good logic
     
  14. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    Frankly, I don't think it's a complete vote of confidence in Sanders, nor should he get one. His D was weak much of the year and slow in improvement. Not moving Jenkins to DE until MM got involved shows me that he needs more guidance than he should. I think he knows that his D had better continue to show improvement or his successor is ready to step in. Good move, IMO.
     
  15. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    At least Greg C. understands that an assistant coach by any other name is an assistant coach.

    Does it really matter if he is Dictator of Defense, Lord of Linebackers, or Prince of the Packers.

    Nothing really has changed. Analyze the reason for change in titles and the purpose it serves.
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    One might think that but look..

    When McCarthy was deciding whether to add an assistant head coach position to his staff, several of the coaches around the league with whom he consulted asked him if the candidate he was considering had head coach potential.



    "I had two people say the same thing, 'Do you think this guy could be a head coach in the National Football League?' he said. "And I said, 'Yes I do.' They said, 'Then that's who you're looking for because God forbid you're sick and you can't go to work, do you feel comfortable putting the team in that individual's hands?'

    "That's a question I continued to ask myself during the process and I definitely feel that way about Winston."

    Though Moss undoubtedly received a significant raise and a multi-year contract that will lock him up for a while, McCarthy said he was most interested in tapping Moss' coaching potential.
     
  17. Cliff

    Cliff Cheesehead

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    Over the past 8 seasons since Mike Holmgren has left Green Bay, the word "qualified" is meaningless in the Packer organization. The Packers love to hire former employee's whether they are qualified or not.
     
  18. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    Note how Mike Sherman went from Assistant Head Coach(really O-line) to Offensive Co-ordinator. Is that a demotion?? No.
     
  19. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Who is the other 'ordinator' ??


    Asst HC is a step up from OC or DC. Mike Singletary is Asst HC and I belive LB coach for the 49ers.

    Asst HC is higher than OC an DC which is why the 49ers can refuse any interview for him pertaining to a Coordinator position.
     

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