2022 Training Camp Thread

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tynimiller

tynimiller

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I was going to say the same thing.
If there was ever a year to go heavy with a 7 WR room, This would be that year.

You have to go back to 2018 before you see us deviate from a 3 RBs, 4 TEs, 9 OLS.....WRs have been 6, 5 and 8.

IF we did the RBs, TEs, OLS the same as we seem to always do that is 16. Add in QBs that's 18.
Plus the three special teamers K, P and LS...we are at 21.

Historically we seem to run right at the split 25 and 25 number between D and O....last year defense had 26, 25 the year before and before that 24

IF we do 25 defenders that leaves 7 WRs

IF we do 24 defenders I say we go 8 WRS like three years removed when we kept Adams, Cobb, Allison, Moore, MVS, EQSB, Kumerow and Davis...that was the year coincidentally we only kept 2 RBs (which is RARE!)

Personally I see it most likely fleshing out atm this moment as:

QB - Rodgers/Love (2)
RB - Jones/Dillon/#3RB TBD (3)
TE - Lewis/Deguara/Davis *Tonyan PUP (3)
WR - Lazard, Cobb, Watkins, Watson, Doubs, Rodgers, Winfree (7)
OL - Runyan, Yosh, Myers, Newman, Tom, Rhyan, Hanson, Cole Van Lanen, Walker (9) *Bakh and Jenkins PUP

DL - Clark, Reed, Wyatt, Slaton, Lowry (5)
OLB - Smith, Gary, Garvin, Enagbare, Ramsey, #6 between Manac or Galeai (6)
ILB - Campbell, Barnes, Walker, McDuffie (5)
CB - Alexander, Douglas, Stokes, Nixon, SJC (5)
S - Amos, Savage, Carpenter, Leavitt, Davis (5)

K, P , LS (3)
 
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tynimiller

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Doubs continues to be a STUD.

Today beat Stokes in what some are calling "burned" him in a one on one...this is now in pads folks.

Then to end the day with a back right corner of the end zone grab on a contested ball for the score. The touch pass was excellent from Love but Doubs despite a PI call on Gafford got the ball and both feet down for the score.
 

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Any discussion of players playing without pads is fun but pointless. Doubs sounds exiting but I'll wait until we can see if he can actually run a route while being pressed at the line in pads before I start believing he'll be any good. I know Lazard can do it, I know Cobb can do it, I know Watkins can do it, all the rookies are TBD no matter how many highlights they pull off without pads on; additionally, it sounds like none of the receivers would even have a chance to catch a pass if Gary was allowed to bull rush and touch the QB.
 
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tynimiller

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Any discussion of players playing without pads is fun but pointless. Doubs sounds exiting but I'll wait until we can see if he can actually run a route while being pressed at the line in pads before I start believing he'll be any good. I know Lazard can do it, I know Cobb can do it, I know Watkins can do it, all the rookies are TBD no matter how many highlights they pull off without pads on; additionally, it sounds like none of the receivers would even have a chance to catch a pass if Gary was allowed to bull rush and touch the QB.

They literally were in pads today….which I actually stated in the comment previously.
 
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tynimiller

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And again don’t pretend this means he is a lock, however like I said when he was drafted, mentally and from a proven stance I saw Doubs as arguably the most ready WR in the draft out the gate. His ceiling isn’t quite as high but to me he screams a WR2 long term for his career.

He continues to stack days rookie orientation, workouts, training camp in shorts and no pads, now TC with pads….all the while holding the same mentality he always has…no play is worth getting hyped about if you mess up the next one. Very promising
 

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He didn't need to be productive last year to make the roster. You have to admit that GMs are extremely reluctant to give up on draft picks that quickly, especially ones in the 1st through 3rd rounds.

While I agree it's rare for the Packers to move from a day 2 draft pick after only one season the situation is different for Amari than it was last year though.

Lazard, Cobb, Watkins, Watson and Doubs are locks to make the team. If another wide receiver outperforms him and the Packers end up keeping only six on the roster there's a chance they move on from him after only one season.

It's also entirely possible that the Packers keep 7 WR, since it is the most unproven group along with OL.

Tight end is another unproven group on offense. Actually not a recipe for success for the entire unit.

OLB - Smith, Gary, Garvin, Enagbare, Ramsey, #6 between Manac or Galeai (6)

It seems Galaei is far ahead of Manac on the depth chart at this point.
 

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While I agree it's rare for the Packers to move from a day 2 draft pick after only one season the situation is different for Amari than it was last year though.

Lazard, Cobb, Watkins, Watson and Doubs are locks to make the team. If another wide receiver outperforms him and the Packers end up keeping only six on the roster there's a chance they move on from him after only one season.



Tight end is another unproven group on offense. Actually not a recipe for success for the entire unit.



It seems Galaei is far ahead of Manac on the depth chart at this point.
Interesting to think the Packers would part ways with Amari Rodgers after one season and part of TC. Physically, it sounds like he's arrived at camp in great shape, shedding like 15 pounds. What I'm not hearing is how he's lighting it up in practice the way Doubs is.

The PS games will tell us as much as possible about Amari Rodgers. With all the open positions for WR, he's gonna have to show something to make the 53. I don't know if he'll make it or not. The bigger question is would Gluten have the courage to cut a #3 pick this early of he's not performing? I hope the answer is yes. Well actually I hope Rodgers performs well and makes the WR group.
 

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Interesting to think the Packers would part ways with Amari Rodgers after one season and part of TC. Physically, it sounds like he's arrived at camp in great shape, shedding like 15 pounds. What I'm not hearing is how he's lighting it up in practice the way Doubs is.

The PS games will tell us as much as possible about Amari Rodgers. With all the open positions for WR, he's gonna have to show something to make the 53. I don't know if he'll make it or not. The bigger question is would Gluten have the courage to cut a #3 pick this early of he's not performing? I hope the answer is yes. Well actually I hope Rodgers performs well and makes the WR group.
The young guys will have plenty of preseason practice/game film to show that they belong, Amari included. I doubt Cobb will be playing much in August so Gute will have a lot of info/film/coaches'-input to make the right decisions. Lazard, Cobb, Watkins, Watson, & Doubs are locks... will be a great battle to see who else fights their way onto the roster.
 

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While I agree it's rare for the Packers to move from a day 2 draft pick after only one season the situation is different for Amari than it was last year though.

Lazard, Cobb, Watkins, Watson and Doubs are locks to make the team. If another wide receiver outperforms him and the Packers end up keeping only six on the roster there's a chance they move on from him after only one season.
Watkins isn't a lock to make the roster. From: https://heavy.com/sports/green-bay-packers/sammy-watkins-cut-candidate-roster-bubble/
"longtime Packers insider Rob Demovsky named veteran wide receiver Sammy Watkins the one to watch as a cut candidate as Green Bay goes through camp.

The 29-year-old Watkins was the only experienced receiver the Packers added following the departures of Davante Adams and Marquez Valdes-Scantling this offseason, giving them a new pass-catcher who has 34 touchdowns and more than 5,000 receiving yards on his record. At the same time, Watkins is signed to a one-year deal that offers him little security should he get outshined over the next few months.

“The Packers didn’t invest much in Watkins — $350,000 signing bonus as part of a one-year deal. They’ve cut free-agent signees with bigger bonuses (see Devin Funchess),” Demovsky wrote in ESPN’s July 6 article. “While they don’t have much veteran experience at the position, they did load up at receiver in the draft. If all three draft picks (Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs and Samori Toure) look ready to contribute by Week 1, perhaps Watkins won’t stick.”"

Also, looks like Amari's been making more plays and LaFleur is happy with what he's seeing and his body transformation this year. So, sounds pretty much a lock to me barring injury.
 

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Interesting to think the Packers would part ways with Amari Rodgers after one season and part of TC. Physically, it sounds like he's arrived at camp in great shape, shedding like 15 pounds. What I'm not hearing is how he's lighting it up in practice the way Doubs is.

The PS games will tell us as much as possible about Amari Rodgers. With all the open positions for WR, he's gonna have to show something to make the 53. I don't know if he'll make it or not. The bigger question is would Gluten have the courage to cut a #3 pick this early of he's not performing? I hope the answer is yes. Well actually I hope Rodgers performs well and makes the WR group.

I'm absolutely convinced Gutekunst would have no issue moving on from Amari if he doesn't end up being one of the six or seven best receivers on the roster. It would be a mistake to hang on to him solely based on him having been a third round last year.

Here is a good article about how much Gutekunst is in Amari Rodgers' corner: https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...ery-bullish-on-potential-of-wr-amari-rodgers/

GM's are known to say one thing and do another, but that doesn't seem to be Gutekunst's style.

Gutekunst having spent a third rounder on Amari last year indicates that he considered him a talented player. If he doesn't show any progress up until roster cutdowns I don't believe that will save him from the Packers moving on though.

Watkins isn't a lock to make the roster. From: https://heavy.com/sports/green-bay-packers/sammy-watkins-cut-candidate-roster-bubble/
"longtime Packers insider Rob Demovsky named veteran wide receiver Sammy Watkins the one to watch as a cut candidate as Green Bay goes through camp.

The 29-year-old Watkins was the only experienced receiver the Packers added following the departures of Davante Adams and Marquez Valdes-Scantling this offseason, giving them a new pass-catcher who has 34 touchdowns and more than 5,000 receiving yards on his record. At the same time, Watkins is signed to a one-year deal that offers him little security should he get outshined over the next few months.

“The Packers didn’t invest much in Watkins — $350,000 signing bonus as part of a one-year deal. They’ve cut free-agent signees with bigger bonuses (see Devin Funchess),” Demovsky wrote in ESPN’s July 6 article. “While they don’t have much veteran experience at the position, they did load up at receiver in the draft. If all three draft picks (Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs and Samori Toure) look ready to contribute by Week 1, perhaps Watkins won’t stick.”"

Also, looks like Amari's been making more plays and LaFleur is happy with what he's seeing and his body transformation this year. So, sounds pretty much a lock to me barring injury.

MLF mentioned that Watkins will be a big part of the Packers' offense back in June. I absolutely consider him a lock to make the roster despite Demovsky not agreeing with me.
 

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Actually, I agree with Demovsky's logic. All summer Watkins has been on my mind as the WR that could potentially get cut. Yes the Packers need veteran leadership in the WR room and I would love nothing more than to see Sammy be successful in Green Bay. He once was a great WR. However, his injury history is a problem and he's already been injured here. I think that if I were the GM of the Packers, I would be weighing the cost of a 1yr veteran with proven credentials but an injury risk versus a young slot WR and potential returner in Rodgers that has upwards potential. If those two trend lines come close to crossing paths, I think that you'll see Gutekunst go with youth and potential versus a veteran with considerable skill yet questionable availability.
 

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We've cut guys like Sitton at one point. I think Watkins makes the final 53 assuming he practices and stays healthy. But would not be surprised if he's not on it either.
 

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Actually, I agree with Demovsky's logic. All summer Watkins has been on my mind as the WR that could potentially get cut. Yes the Packers need veteran leadership in the WR room and I would love nothing more than to see Sammy be successful in Green Bay. He once was a great WR. However, his injury history is a problem and he's already been injured here. I think that if I were the GM of the Packers, I would be weighing the cost of a 1yr veteran with proven credentials but an injury risk versus a young slot WR and potential returner in Rodgers that has upwards potential. If those two trend lines come close to crossing paths, I think that you'll see Gutekunst go with youth and potential versus a veteran with considerable skill yet questionable availability.
Agreed. We know Watkins history. It's a calculated risk to put him on the 53, and yeah, he's injured already.

Amari Rodgers has remade his body in the off season, and I doubt that the changes stopped there. I expect big things from him this year.

I think both of these guys will make the 53. If I had to choose, I'd go with youth, unless Watkins just blows it out of the water in PS.
 
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Tight end is another unproven group on offense. Actually not a recipe for success for the entire unit.
Again, I think unproven is not proper terminology. Underperforming? Inconsistent? Maybe.

Is Big Dog “unproven”? No
Is Tonyan “unproven” No
There’s half of your group there.
Is Deguara Unproven? That’s maybe debatable at best. Deguara succumbed to an season ending ACL injury during week 5 of the 2020 regular season, so at that point, after 4 complete contests, I’d agree he was unproven at the time he had his ACL injury, yes. Not anymore.

Deguara started slow on PUP and obviously made a complete recovery Once Tonyan went down mid season, Deguara really got his opportunities as a featured TE here. The result? On a decent sample size he performed admirably. In just 34% of the O snaps, he puts up 25/33 245/2TD’s 75.8% catch ratio with nearly 200 of his yards coming YAC. (9.8 per catch). That’s essentially his entry level 1st season. With 70% (double) snap counts he’s pacing nicely.
50/66 490/4TD’s (pace).

As a comparison.
In Tonyans breakout 3rd season he was 52/59 586/11TD’s 88.1% catch%.

Now. That said. Tyler Davis is largely “unproven” coming into his 3rd season (2nd in the Packers system)
2021-4/5 35/0TD 80% catch%

In Marcedes first 2 seasons combined?
50/78 517/3TD 64.1 catch%
Divided by 2= About Deguara.
It’s that 3rd-4th year you see what you’ve got at TE, but the initial signs point favorably for Deguara.

That’s a pretty normal “proven:unproven” mix if you ask me, but leaning proven.

The only group I can really argue “unproven” altogether is at OL. Mainly because that group survives on continuity as a unit. You can’t have 1 standout Davante at OL. That’s a 5 chain link unit with Our TE’s latching on also. Only as good as the weakest link.
 
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Heyjoe4

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Again, I think unproven is not proper terminology. Underperforming? Inconsistent? Maybe.

Is Big Dog “unproven”? No
Is Tonyan “unproven” No
There’s half of your group there.
Is Deguara Unproven? That’s maybe debatable at best. Deguara succumbed to an season ending ACL injury during week 5 of the 2020 regular season, so at that point, after 4 complete contests, I’d agree he was unproven at the time he had his ACL injury, yes. Not anymore.

Deguara started slow on PUP and obviously made a complete recovery Once Tonyan went down mid season, Deguara really got his opportunities as a featured TE here. The result? On a decent sample size he performed admirably. In just 34% of the O snaps, he puts up 25/33 245/2TD’s 75.8% catch ratio with nearly 200 of his yards coming YAC. (9.8 per catch). That’s essentially his entry level 1st season. With 70% (double) snap counts he’s pacing nicely.
50/66 490/4TD’s (pace).

As a comparison.
In Tonyans breakout 3rd season he was 52/59 586/11TD’s 88.1% catch%.

Now. That said. Tyler Davis is largely “unproven” coming into his 3rd season (2nd in the Packers system)
2021-4/5 35/0TD 80% catch%

In Marcedes first 2 seasons combined?
50/78 517/3TD 64.1 catch%
Divided by 2= About Deguara.
It’s that 3rd-4th year you see what you’ve got at TE, but the initial signs point favorably for Deguara.

That’s a pretty normal “proven:unproven” mix if you ask me, but leaning proven.
"Unproven" is such a subjective word it hardly has any meaning here. Is it being applied to a player or a position group? That's the first problem because it looks like both are being done in the comments.

Just for fun, I'd say Tonyan is unproven. He had a great 2020, and that was it. His 2021 was average until he tore his ACL. As Bakh has shown us, almost anyone coming back from a major injury like a torn ACL is unproven until he shows he's past the injury and it hasn't meaningfully affected his play.

Again, just for fun, I'd say the entire WR and TE groups are unproven. But that's just my interpretation. What do you say about the O line? It's impossible to say right now.

I guess this is my long way of saying I have little use for subjective evaluations, even by me!
 
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"Unproven" is such a subjective word it hardly has any meaning here. Is it being applied to a player or a position group? That's the first problem because it looks like both are being done in the comments.

Just for fun, I'd say Tonyan is unproven. He had a great 2020, and that was it. His 2021 was average until he tore his ACL. As Bakh has shown us, almost anyone coming back from a major injury like a torn ACL is unproven until he shows he's past the injury and it hasn't meaningfully affected his play.

Again, just for fun, I'd say the entire WR and TE groups are unproven. But that's just my interpretation. What do you say about the O line? It's impossible to say right now.

I guess this is my long way of saying I have little use for subjective evaluations, even by me!
Good stuff.
Whenever interpretation comes up on a particular word that a poster uses. I find it healthy to go to its previously, objective, agreed upon meaning. The dictionary.

Unproven

“of a new or alternate product/system or treatment. Not tried and tested”.

“Not Demonstrated by evidence or argument to be true or existing”


In this case. I have demonstrated by reasonable argument and evidence (part of the definition itself) why that group designation is not appropriate. As far as “not tried or tested”. I don’t think that fits this group as a whole at all. If anything it’s a very pessimistic view of an otherwise solid TE group. In layman’s.. saying the Packers have an “untested group of TE’s” is reaching.

For anyone saying Tonyan is untested, I would ask why the Packers would offer a $3.759,000 contract to a 5th year player who is “not tried or tested” ??
 
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Heyjoe4

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Good stuff.
Whenever interpretation comes up on a particular word, I like to go to scratch. The dictionary.

Unproven

“of a new or alternate product/system or treatment. Not tried and tested”.

“Not Demonstrated by evidence or argument to be true or existing”


In this case. I have demonstrated by reasonable argument why that group designation is not appropriate. As far as “not tried it tested”. I don’t think think that fits this group as a whole. If anything it’s a very pessimistic view of an otherwise average TE group. In layman’s it’s a reach
At this point I'm happy to see what TC and the PS games produce. I'm certain that two guys will emerge from the WR group and be legit #1 and #2 receivers. It may take 7 or 8 weeks to happen, but it will happen.

I'm also interested in how Love plays in the PS. For a lot of different reasons, he really hasn't had the chance to show what he can do in PS games. Granted those games are using vanilla game plans - but all the more reason he should excel as a first round pick. I'll believe it when it happens. Worst case, he goes back to being the backup and Gluten figures out what to do after the season.

As for TEs, I'd like to see DeGuarra continue to improve. When he gets back, I'm looking for Tonyan to regain 2020 form. Until then, the TE group will be used more for in-line blocking to help the O line. And if Tonyan was a one-year wonder...... Address it in the draft or FA next off season. I think he'll be fine though.
 
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At this point I'm happy to see what TC and the PS games produce. I'm certain that two guys will emerge from the WR group and be legit #1 and #2 receivers. It may take 7 or 8 weeks to happen, but it will happen.

I'm also interested in how Love plays in the PS. For a lot of different reasons, he really hasn't had the chance to show what he can do in PS games. Granted those games are using vanilla game plans - but all the more reason he should excel as a first round pick. I'll believe it when it happens. Worst case, he goes back to being the backup and Gluten figures out what to do after the season.

As for TEs, I'd like to see DeGuarra continue to improve. When he gets back, I'm looking for Tonyan to regain 2020 form. Until then, the TE group will be used more for in-line blocking to help the O line. And if Tonyan was a one-year wonder...... Address it in the draft or FA next off season. I think he'll be fine though.
I agree. I think in particular Love will have some increasing pressure to show he’s improving. Nothing but good can come from him performing better, even in pads in preseason.

He now has a litany of good Receivers to throw to. Also, while our OL may be missing that top echelon player without Bak or Elgton, The OL does have adequate talent at OL depth, which will be what Love is mainly working with.

Was it last year that Funchess kinda stood out early? I want to get through these games healthy for once.
 
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For all the hype on Rodgers and being in shape this year and putting in the work, they said he's like 7th on the depth chart in practice lately. That's not a good place to be if you ask me.
 
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For all the hype on Rodgers and being in shape this year and putting in the work, they said he's like 7th on the depth chart in practice lately. That's not a good place to be if you ask me.

Wait where did you expect him to wash to?

I mean 6th at best is where he is to start the year given his role and still raw inexperience?

Lazard, Cobb and Watkins are clear 1-3 to start camp. Then it was clear GB yields to their past guys and Winfree was getting snaps with the ones. That means at the highest Amari could even logically be is 5th...toss in Doubs studding it up and Watson when back it makes sense.

He is a pure slot, only other guy in the WR room that arguably is a pure inside or outside guy is the guy ahead of him for that spot (Cobb). All makes sense IMO.
 

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Wait where did you expect him to wash to?

I mean 6th at best is where he is to start the year given his role and still raw inexperience?

Lazard, Cobb and Watkins are clear 1-3 to start camp. Then it was clear GB yields to their past guys and Winfree was getting snaps with the ones. That means at the highest Amari could even logically be is 5th...toss in Doubs studding it up and Watson when back it makes sense.

He is a pure slot, only other guy in the WR room that arguably is a pure inside or outside guy is the guy ahead of him for that spot (Cobb). All makes sense IMO.
I expect him to get in some reps with the 1's, be the first guy out there with the 2's, not be relegated to when "the rest" go in. From what they said the majority of his reps are with "the rest", and none with the 1's or 2's basically.
If winfree is getting looks with the 1's, I'd expect Amari to be as well.
 

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