2022 Salary Cap Riddle/Thread/Discussion

[Pokerbrat2000]

An argument could be made that at the play level they've been playing at both would be tradeable possibly. If you trade Rodgers, draft equity will already be quite awesome...but that would be another way of handling those two as well rather than a clean cut. Most of the guys I mentioned as clean cuts I don't think are that tradeable...but it is possible.

Agreed and yes, trade what you can. I love Jaire, but quite honestly, if we were going into full rebuild, I might try to resign Rasul and then trade Jaire. I know that you can never have enough good CB's, but a team in rebuild mode is going to need more things than 3 good CB's. I would prefer to have 2, one on a rookie deal and the other getting paid average money.

 

[OldSchool101]

I had to abandon the shout box during a game, drove me absolutely nuts with all of the "sky is falling" posts and that was just over the coin toss.

That was pretty funny. That was me I can’t stand starting a game by getting behind..
and it was tails

 

[tynimiller]

Agreed and yes, trade what you can. I love Jaire, but quite honestly, if we were going into full rebuild, I might try to resign Rasul and then trade Jaire. I know that you can never have enough good CB's, but a team in rebuild mode is going to need more things than 3 good CB's. I would prefer to have 2, one on a rookie deal and the other getting paid average money.

I have a more positive outlook than I think you do - now do I expect us to compete for even the division in 2022 if it is a post-Rodgers era rebuild...no not really. However, I think this defense alone if you can re-sign say Campbell, perhaps even Rasul can find 5-6 wins for a team...Love clicks a game or two and wins another 1 or 2 is possible. We are not in the top half of the league but it isn't anywhere close to a Jags/Jets type level bottom barrel either. Lot also depends on what you get in return for Rodgers and maybe other moves.

I did a mock quick where we get Denver's First and one of their seconds...and even if you stay put (could trade back from 9th) for even more....you can easily walk out of the second round with four guys I'd expect to start or worst case get significant playing time. In your scenario where you let Amos walk or trade him, there are some awesome safety options that will be there Day 1 and 2 as well.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That was pretty funny. That was me I can’t stand starting a game by getting behind..
and it was tails

In OT I guess I can understand how losing a coin flip would create a big stir. Look at the Bills last night, poor Josh Allen was a perfect 9-0 on coin flips until last nights game and he lost both the opening one and the OT one.

Tails sometimes fails: Bills’ Josh Allen had been perfect calling coin toss before Sunday's game vs. Chiefs

Buffalo lost the pre-game coin toss and the overtime coin toss. The latter kept the ball out of the offense's hands.

www.syracuse.com

 

[tynimiller]

Also in all these as you know @Pokerbrat2000 Gute is no dummy, while Love will get 2022, Gute will assuredly make certain we have enough draft equity in 2023 possibly incase we have to make a move there for a QB.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have a more positive outlook than I think you do - now do I expect us to compete for even the division in 2022 if it is a post-Rodgers era rebuild...no not really.

My post Rodgers outlook ebbs and flows with Love. Let's face it, that will be the first key piece. Until they do, I really don't see us being better than .500 for several years.

I guess the other way to go about it, is admit that our defense is actually very talented and not that many pieces away from being a top 5 defense. Keep Jaire, resign Rasul and Campbell and as you said keep Preston. Mix in some young talented rookies on the DL and at S and the rest of your resources go to finding WR's and TE's for Love to learn with, under MLF's offense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Also in all these as you know @Pokerbrat2000 Gute is no dummy, while Love will get 2022, Gute will assuredly make certain we have enough draft equity in 2023 possibly incase we have to make a move there for a QB.

That is the part that Gute has a leg up on all of us. He actually probably has a good hunch/knowledge as to where Love is right now and where he may or may not be after a year of starting.

 

[OldSchool101]

Also in all these as you know @Pokerbrat2000 Gute is no dummy, while Love will get 2022, Gute will assuredly make certain we have enough draft equity in 2023 possibly incase we have to make a move there for a QB.

Yes. It’s a trade off of Capital. Getting a QB on a Rookie contract is a massive swing in $ Capital, even a top 3 selection would save us about $30-35mil for 4 seasons. Not to mention the 1 season you potentially start Love. Draft capital = huge $$$, particularly at the QB position.

Another Avenue is signing a lower echelon veteran FA QB for 1-2 seasons etc.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yes. It’s a trade off of Capital. Getting a QB on a Rookie contract is a massive swing in $ Capital, even a top 3 selection would save us about $30-35mil for 4 seasons. Not to mention the 1 season you potentially start Love. Draft capital = huge $$$

Which is why I am back and forth on making Jaire one of the highest paid CB's in the league. Could you save that money, use the draft picks to improve the team elsewhere and use some of the savings to pay Rasul and Campbell.

 

[tynimiller]

Yes. It’s a trade off of Capital. Getting a QB on a Rookie contract is a massive swing in $ Capital, even a top 3 selection would save us about $30-35mil for 4 seasons. Not to mention the 1 season you potentially start Love. Draft capital = huge $$$

Yup which is why 2022 really is Love's chance, cuz I think Gute will drop him for the next possibility, continue building a solid team around a young QB contract and once fire strikes watch out.

 

[tynimiller]

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I see this truly devastating this franchise eventually down the road in a very big way…but I’ll rejoice if it wins us a SB!

 

[tynimiller]

So what did we learn yesterday with MLF saying the above and a little bit more?

Honestly, nothing we didn't know - the organization wants Rodgers back, as any organization would....BUT what we did confirm is it would seem the brass is willing to crucify the future at the cost of pushing "all-in" one more season once more.

This isn't something caps allow a team to do perpetually, but as the Saints have illustrated eventually the stripping of a franchise will be required and dark days follow.

So where do we continue to find some savings...Amos cut or restructure is arguably the biggest way...extending Preston is another but look at the list of the most expensive current 2022 hits: Please note Jaire is not on this list as spotrac has him down on a "non-football injury spot" but his CAP HIT IS PRESENTLY $13.2M

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How might this look....well while you cannot do this with everyone of course (especially Rodgers, Adams and Jaire) but in many ways guys will need to restructure contracts to look very similar to their 2021 figures. MLF did bring up they will find a way to bring back "as many key contributors" as possible...I took that if reading between the lines as 'from 2021'.

So Zadarius is still grossly on the outside looking in....however could he realize with his back and age, he would rather compete for GB than chase money elsewhere? Sure could, it is a rare decision for guys to do so, but it is something we see more and more. Honestly, Whitney Mercilus it is rumored turned down better pay to come here last year....and it is going to take some vets to fill rosters on the lower end.

It is quite clear that you have to make Rodgers cap number hit at minimum half of what it is presently...

Rodgers - say we shave his hit/pushing it down to $30.5M (saving 15.5M) 15.5M
Cobb - cannot see that hit - we extend/push him down to $5M (saving $4.5) what sucks is he already has nearly $2M hit in 2023 of void money. $20M
Jaire - Cannot let him hit 2022 at his $13.2M, you have to extend or trade him to save. Like Gary (later) if part of your future could structure a hard backend type contract. (say you save about $8M - could be more) $28M
Turner - I still think despite being a key contributor is cut (saving $4M) $32M
Lowry - With already THREE voided amounts beyond his contract year totaling around $3M already I think he is cut leaving a lot of dead money (Saves just $4M in 2022) $36M
Gary - If you think you want to build the future around him (meaning post Rodgers), you could extend him and put nearly all his hit in year 2 onward (save$2M) $38M
Zadarius - $15.5M if cut saved, back injury, now 30 years old...he is the hardest cut, but to me the most obvious (he would need to take a massive pay cut to stay) (Saves $15.5M) $53.5M
Crosby - Has to cut or rework/push....but again is a guy we will be taking hits on nearly $2M in three years after his contract ends after 2022. (Minimal savings maybe $1.5M or so) If he stays...you save only like $2.4M if you cut and only for 2022. $55M

Say you cut/push/shave down like the above in some capacity...you've managed to get to about $6M-9M under cap....but you've done so with only 36 guys actually on the roster. You are no where close enough to have a full roster, sign draft picks and have ANY space for handling in season injuries and signings to fill AND THIS MEANS NO MONEY TO RESIGN ANY OF THE FOLLOWING (bolded biggest contributors):

Davante Adams
MVS -UFA
Lazard -RFA
Sullivan -UFA
King -UFA
Tonyan -UFA
Campbell -UFA
Douglas -UFA
Mercilus -UFA
Lancaster -UFA
EQSB -UFA
Dafney -ERFA
Yosh -RFA
Patrick -UFA
Burks -UFA
Barnes -ERFA
Bojo - UFA
Black - ERFA
Yiadom - UFA
Hanson - ERFA
Hamilton - ERFA
Anderson - ERFA

15 Practice Squad guys


**Two guys below that I don't think you can cut but do offer massive savings....both are crucial IMO to our defense and should be left alone. My fear is they'll shove voided years and we will yet again be paying for players not even here.
Amos - Illustrates perfectly what may be one of the tough decisions as he has no future voided money after his contract ends (2022 last year), and would save us 7.9M
Clark - This is his big hit year and follows with a $21M and $22M year, I'm unsure how or what you do with Kenny's - you don't want to take a ton of dead void money but this is a spot they may push some too...
Preston Smith - Myself I resign/extend Preston, he has been Mr. Reliable for us and with Zadarius for sure out and Preston having a ton of savings for a cut ($13M)

You have a handful of guys that would cash you $750-$900K range if cut; Runyan, Vernon Scott, Garvin, Davis, Winfree, Galeai, Taylor, Wirtel, Hill, McDuffie BUT NONE OF THESE WOULD MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PLUG THIS LEVEL SALARY RIGHT BACK IN FOR REPLACEMENTS.

 

[tynimiller]

All that above essentially means you've scraped as much off the bones as possible...still don't have enough to feed the family that is here and you don't even have everyone there yet. Which means we have to remove a couple heavy eaters from the table if we want any ability at all to have Thanksgiving dinner....and that is just worrying about this year, family dinners will never be the same at all in the future because of all this.

 

[Pkrjones]

King was about as solid of a #3 as anyone could hope this year. He isn’t worth paying like an outside starter and will most likely be gone, but he was no knucklehead this year

King was only healthy & available for 11 of the 18 games played in 2021/22. While his ST Deabo tackle was critical not sure he gave us $5Mil worth, though. Re-sign Jaire & Douglas and GB has top-tier CB's for the next few years to build around.

 

[tynimiller]

King was only healthy & available for 11 of the 18 games played in 2021/22. While his ST Deabo tackle was critical not sure he gave us $5Mil worth, though. Re-sign Jaire & Douglas and GB has top-tier CB's for the next few years to build around.

King was excellent when out there for your 3rd CB, I am not saying pay the man or even consider - but he is worthy of being bolded as a contributor is all.

There is no need to resign Jaire, I assume you meant extend long term.

Douglas honestly I don't see how we have him in 2022 without some crazy cuts elsewhere - unless you're in a no Rodgers scenario, in that case 100% you make an attempt to return both him and Campbell IMO.

 

[Mondio]

The "no Rodgers" situation depends for me. Did Rodgers get traded and we have a ton of capital to add to the team? Then by all means keep some of these guys around because we can probably add enough firepower to the core to compete again in a year or 2.

Did Rodgers retire? Then i'm not committing much money to anybody at this point that isn't in my 3+ year plan and anybody not in that plan i'm moving NOW. cut to save cap or trade if I can gain some draft picks back.

 

[tynimiller]

The "no Rodgers" situation depends for me. Did Rodgers get traded and we have a ton of capital to add to the team? Then by all means keep some of these guys around because we can probably add enough firepower to the core to compete again in a year or 2.

Did Rodgers retire? Then i'm not committing much money to anybody at this point that isn't in my 3+ year plan and anybody not in that plan i'm moving NOW. cut to save cap or trade if I can gain some draft picks back.

I get it, but I don't see any chance he retires.

However, in that case the team does save about $20M - which sadly still puts us in need of cutting about $26M to just get to cap and an addition $10-$15M to function.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I get it, but I don't see any chance he retires.

I agree with this, at least based on some of things he said about last summers decision and that he still had a huge desire and ability to play the game.

If that is the case, what the Packers really need to be careful of is placating him for one more year and then getting nothing when he walks in 2023. He doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild, so that tells me if the Packers don't resign Adams and have to cut ties with some other high salaried guys, in his mind he will be in a mini rebuild. So he either forces a trade, retires or collects his money for one more year and heads to Free agency next season.

If the Packers can't keep the current roster in tact or at least equally as strong as it was this year, I say trade Rodgers, get what you can and let the rebuild begin.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So what did we learn yesterday with MLF saying the above and a little bit more?

Honestly, nothing we didn't know - the organization wants Rodgers back, as any organization would....BUT what we did confirm is it would seem the brass is willing to crucify the future at the cost of pushing "all-in" one more season once more.

This isn't something caps allow a team to do perpetually, but as the Saints have illustrated eventually the stripping of a franchise will be required and dark days follow.

So where do we continue to find some savings...Amos cut or restructure is arguably the biggest way...extending Preston is another but look at the list of the most expensive current 2022 hits: Please note Jaire is not on this list as spotrac has him down on a "non-football injury spot" but his CAP HIT IS PRESENTLY $13.2M

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

How might this look....well while you cannot do this with everyone of course (especially Rodgers, Adams and Jaire) but in many ways guys will need to restructure contracts to look very similar to their 2021 figures. MLF did bring up they will find a way to bring back "as many key contributors" as possible...I took that if reading between the lines as 'from 2021'.

So Zadarius is still grossly on the outside looking in....however could he realize with his back and age, he would rather compete for GB than chase money elsewhere? Sure could, it is a rare decision for guys to do so, but it is something we see more and more. Honestly, Whitney Mercilus it is rumored turned down better pay to come here last year....and it is going to take some vets to fill rosters on the lower end.

It is quite clear that you have to make Rodgers cap number hit at minimum half of what it is presently...

Rodgers - say we shave his hit/pushing it down to $30.5M (saving 15.5M) 15.5M
Cobb - cannot see that hit - we extend/push him down to $5M (saving $4.5) what sucks is he already has nearly $2M hit in 2023 of void money. $20M
Jaire - Cannot let him hit 2022 at his $13.2M, you have to extend or trade him to save. Like Gary (later) if part of your future could structure a hard backend type contract. (say you save about $8M - could be more) $28M
Turner - I still think despite being a key contributor is cut (saving $4M) $32M
Lowry - With already THREE voided amounts beyond his contract year totaling around $3M already I think he is cut leaving a lot of dead money (Saves just $4M in 2022) $36M
Gary - If you think you want to build the future around him (meaning post Rodgers), you could extend him and put nearly all his hit in year 2 onward (save$2M) $38M
Zadarius - $15.5M if cut saved, back injury, now 30 years old...he is the hardest cut, but to me the most obvious (he would need to take a massive pay cut to stay) (Saves $15.5M) $53.5M
Crosby - Has to cut or rework/push....but again is a guy we will be taking hits on nearly $2M in three years after his contract ends after 2022. (Minimal savings maybe $1.5M or so) If he stays...you save only like $2.4M if you cut and only for 2022. $55M

Say you cut/push/shave down like the above in some capacity...you've managed to get to about $6M-9M under cap....but you've done so with only 36 guys actually on the roster. You are no where close enough to have a full roster, sign draft picks and have ANY space for handling in season injuries and signings to fill AND THIS MEANS NO MONEY TO RESIGN ANY OF THE FOLLOWING (bolded biggest contributors):

Davante Adams
MVS -UFA
Lazard -RFA
Sullivan -UFA
King -UFA
Tonyan -UFA
Campbell -UFA
Douglas -UFA
Mercilus -UFA
Lancaster -UFA
EQSB -UFA
Dafney -ERFA
Yosh -RFA
Patrick -UFA
Burks -UFA
Barnes -ERFA
Bojo - UFA
Black - ERFA
Yiadom - UFA
Hanson - ERFA
Hamilton - ERFA
Anderson - ERFA

15 Practice Squad guys


**Two guys below that I don't think you can cut but do offer massive savings....both are crucial IMO to our defense and should be left alone. My fear is they'll shove voided years and we will yet again be paying for players not even here.
Amos - Illustrates perfectly what may be one of the tough decisions as he has no future voided money after his contract ends (2022 last year), and would save us 7.9M
Clark - This is his big hit year and follows with a $21M and $22M year, I'm unsure how or what you do with Kenny's - you don't want to take a ton of dead void money but this is a spot they may push some too...
Preston Smith - Myself I resign/extend Preston, he has been Mr. Reliable for us and with Zadarius for sure out and Preston having a ton of savings for a cut ($13M)

You have a handful of guys that would cash you $750-$900K range if cut; Runyan, Vernon Scott, Garvin, Davis, Winfree, Galeai, Taylor, Wirtel, Hill, McDuffie BUT NONE OF THESE WOULD MAKE SENSE BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PLUG THIS LEVEL SALARY RIGHT BACK IN FOR REPLACEMENTS.

Russ Ball called, you start tomorrow.

 

[Mondio]

I get it, but I don't see any chance he retires.

However, in that case the team does save about $20M - which sadly still puts us in need of cutting about $26M to just get to cap and an addition $10-$15M to function.

I'm not sure he really wants to play anywhere else. If a situation arose where it was a Brady/Tampa type scenario where the team is absolutely stacked and just waiting for a QB and he sees a fantastic opportunity to win NOW for the next season or 2 and Adams can be signed there as well I could see him agreeing to a trade. I put that at about 10%.

I think he prefers to stay here until the end, which imo is about 2-3 seasons tops.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

There is no solution for this team to be as good next year AND keep Rodger and Adams. The only real solution is going to be to trade Rodgers, get some cheap, young players, and probably cut Big Z...and that's just to start. This team is in absolute cap hell and has quite a few free agents that are going to want contracts that are either the highest at their position or in the top-5. Maybe then can extend Jaire to lower his cap hit next season but the Packers might very well end up cutting both Smiths and hoping Gary and some elite, young player they trade Rodgers for can make a similar impact (maybe Maxx Crosby?).

 

[tynimiller]

Russ Ball called, you start tomorrow.

LOL - I'd love to be an under-staff in such a job, or really would rather be in the scouting department.

I just love the prospect scouting and organizational management of the team almost as much as the actual season....such a nerd I know.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm not sure he really wants to play anywhere else. If a situation arose where it was a Brady/Tampa type scenario where the team is absolutely stacked and just waiting for a QB and he sees a fantastic opportunity to win NOW for the next season or 2 and Adams can be signed there as well I could see him agreeing to a trade. I put that at about 10%.

I think he prefers to stay here until the end, which imo is about 2-3 seasons tops.

I also kinda sense this as well, he will play somewhere else but may not necessarily want to.

That said there are a couple teams that fit your scenario and to me the best is Denver for multiple reasons:

In order to be ready to win now AND bring in Adams in as well a team needs:

Cap Space - Denver has presently a massive surplus of over $40M ($44M estimated per Spotrac) or the 6th most cap space in the league. They can afford Adams and others...they restructure Sutton ($16M and their highest 2022 hit) they would have more
Setup to Win Now - Stellar defense plus has the young talented weapons with the likes of Jeudy, Hamler, Sutton, Fant, Okwuegbunam, Javonte Williams and above average offensive line. I mean this defense played in an incredibly tough division and depending on the metric was a top 5 defense still!
Draft Equity to do it without massively crippling themselves - They presently have the 9th overall in 2022, they have two second rounders in 2022, and two thirds even in 2022. They can package plenty this year, throw in a 2023 1st as well.

The only other two teams that arguably fit the description would be Dolphins and Pittsburgh
Dolphins
Cap Space - They have the most space of any team, estimated around $67M...you want Davante, sure...you want us to get Cobb who GB cut, sure...
Setup to Win Now - This team as built with Tua went on a massive run of wins to close their year. They're young and ready to succeed just need that QB and few other pieces.
Draft Equity to do it without massively crippling themselves - While they don't have the 2022 picks that Denver has, they have TWO first rounders in 2023 to mess with in a package - a luxury that neither Denver or Pittsburg has. They have the normal picks in rounds this year with a bonus 4th, BUT their first rounder is the 30th pick as their original 1st was traded otherwise would be higher.

Pittsburgh
Cap Space - They have about $34M on the good side of the cap, 12th in the league. They could afford to add Rodgers and Adams, little fiscal wiggle and maybe more to fill roster out.
Setup to Win Now - JuJu is gone, but they have Claypool, Bussey, "Adams", Freiermuth and Najee Harris. Their defense is stout as well.
Draft Equity to do it without massively crippling themselves - This is where Pittsburgh would have to sacrifice more than anyone else...and perhaps would be the team that package could include one or two 2024 picks even....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

LOL - I'd love to be an under-staff in such a job, or really would rather be in the scouting department.

I just love the prospect scouting and organizational management of the team almost as much as the actual season....such a nerd I know.

If you get hired, I hope they give you Drayton's office. Although now, it might be a mop closet.

 

[tynimiller]

If you get hired, I hope they give you Drayton's office. Although now, it might be a mop closet.

I heard its closer to the cheerleader's lockeroom so I'll have that going for me...

Oh and that is Green Bay for Concessions LOL