2022 Draft #34 Christian Watson

[tynimiller]

Can't argue with your assessment. Doubs continues to improve but damn Reed is having an impressive rookie year, and Wicks shows a lot of promise.

And maybe you hit on something. Watson seems intimidated by DBs. He's faster and taller than any corner he'll face, but he hasn't learned to fight for the ball. He's not an aggressive player. In fairness, Love has thrown some lousy passes his way. Even so, it's looking like last year was a fluke. Too bad.

I think MLF is limited until Watson clicks to forcing him into positions honestly like we used Swervin' Ervin....get him moving, give him some front pitch motion plays, run some quick screens or work him to death on quick ins. He and Love are not a good deep ball connection and blame is on multiple things (not just Watson).

 

[Heyjoe4]

The sad thing is I don't see at this time any pure WR1 material. Now I do think Doubs continues to work towards being one, and Reed can easily become a moving/slot stud for sure but I have never liked offenses where that type is #1.

The crazy thing is once it clicks, IF it clicks for Watson dude will be INSANE....or he will slowly become like Claypool, but it will take longer because he is NOT A CALLOUS of a teammate like Claypool.

There is no #1 receiver on this team. Some of that is Love's fault, but there were a lot of well thrown balls yesterday that were dropped, and that's not a one off.

I'd be fine if Gluten decided to add a veteran WR in FA (and no, not a leftover like Sammy Watkins). Not sure if there's cap room. Every QB deserves at least one "go to" guy who will make plays 90% of the time. The Packers don't have one.

 

[gopkrs]

I do think Watson is fighting for the ball now. But that tipped interception was another short throw. A bit longer and Watson would have had his hands on it clean. Don't know why Love is not trying to throw toward the end of the end zone on a play like that.

 

[tynimiller]

I do think Watson is fighting for the ball now. But that tipped interception was another short throw. A bit longer and Watson would have had his hands on it clean. Don't know why Love is not trying to throw toward the end of the end zone on a play like that.

While I am not saying Watson isn't exerting effort on some tosses, I see more aggression on balls out of the tiny (in comparison) Reed than you do Watson. Some of that is poor or not great tosses sometimes for sure making it tougher for him, but slowing down film and such I just don't see a guy using his freak of nature frame and abilities to just attack the ball.

 

[Magooch]

I do also think, not that it totally absolves Love, but it’s becoming more and more clear to me (and it was already pretty clear to begin with lol) that he - and the team overall - would really benefit greatly from having a proper “blue chipper” at WR. Doesn’t even necessarily have to be a veteran…. I’m sure other positions might represent better “draft value” but overall I think we’d really, really benefit from just going and getting one of the top prospects one of these times…

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is a group of Receivers (Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks, Musgrave) that are still in their diapers and playing with a QB that is wearing his too.

Give them all some time and let them develop. I get the hand wringing, but how good was Davante his first 2 seasons and he was playing with a FHOF QB, as well as getting the 3rd or 4th best coverage guy on him every play.

Fans are expecting WAY too much out of this young offense. I actually liked a lot of what I saw from them yesterday. That was the first game where I actually saw a bright future.

If I have to be completely honest, I wasn't bummed that they lost the game, in the way that they did. Keeps them in a better draft position and they showed signs of improvement.

 

[tynimiller]

This is a group of Receivers (Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks, Musgrave) that are still in their diapers and playing with a QB that is wearing his too.

Give them all some time and let them develop. I get the hand wringing, but how good was Davante his first 2 seasons and he was playing with a FHOF QB, as well as getting the 3rd or 4th best coverage guy on him every play.

Fans are expecting WAY too much out of this young offense. I actually liked a lot of what I saw from them yesterday. That was the first game where I actually saw a bright future.

If I have to be completely honest, I wasn't bummed that they lost the game, in the way that they did. Keeps them in a better draft position and they showed signs of improvement.

Again no one is saying Watson isn't an athletic freak...but just as Davante SUCKED at hands on the ball at times when young, Watson to me is not showcasing promise as much as I'd like in his second year. That is far from saying write him off or trade him, which is vastly more doom and gloom.

I don't expect him get it all right or to be a polished veteran route runner at this very moment...but he's ran wrong routes this year it seems too much, and I just don't sense the attacking of the ball is there yet with him. Reed fights, I don't see it as much as I'd like from a dude that doesn't have a single CB that is more a freak than him.

 

[Sanguine camper]

The scouting report on Watson coming out of college was that he was a top deep threat but he played smaller than his size, gets hurt a lot and is very poor at contested catches. So far that sume him up. He's looking more like an MVS than a No 1 WR. If so, the pick was a huge reach for a No 3 WR who is basically a decoy for much of the time. To be fair, he has been open on deep routes where Love's passes have been badly underthown. More than any other WR, he depends on a qb can can make deep throws with accuracy. Nevertheless, I'd say Watson isn't developing into a No 1 WR.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Again no one is saying Watson isn't an athletic freak...but just as Davante SUCKED at hands on the ball at times when young, Watson to me is not showcasing promise as much as I'd like in his second year. That is far from saying write him off or trade him, which is vastly more doom and gloom.

I don't expect him get it all right or to be a polished veteran route runner at this very moment...but he's ran wrong routes this year it seems too much, and I just don't sense the attacking of the ball is there yet with him. Reed fights, I don't see it as much as I'd like from a dude that doesn't have a single CB that is more a freak than him.

I wasn't picking on you

I was picking on the faction of Packer fans that are ready to jump off of cliffs. Your feet and rationale are way more firmly planted.


Could see this coming a mile away last season and when Rodgers was traded, even more so. I am sure there is a team that has pulled it off, but to expect a group of rookie and 2nd year guys, working with a first year starting QB, with virtually no NFL experience, to play well, isn't realistic.

Take Watson, Doubs and Musgrave, put them in a veteran offense, with better receivers ahead of them and a veteran QB and you have a much different result.

 

[Team Ronny]

I do think Watson is fighting for the ball now. But that tipped interception was another short throw. A bit longer and Watson would have had his hands on it clean. Don't know why Love is not trying to throw toward the end of the end zone on a play like that.

Could have been the wind..it did look windy there yesterday. He might have hung it up a little too much.

 

[tynimiller]

I wasn't picking on you

I was picking on the faction of Packer fans that are ready to jump off of cliffs. Your feet and rationale are way more firmly planted.


Could see this coming a mile away last season and when Rodgers was traded, even more so. I am sure there is a team that has pulled it off, but to expect a group of rookie and 2nd year guys, working with a first year starting QB, with virtually no NFL experience, to play well, isn't realistic.

Take Watson, Doubs and Musgrave, put them in a veteran offense, with better receivers ahead of them and a veteran QB and you have a much different result.

Here's the incredible thing....while I don't have a crystal ball to say who, I do STRONGLY believe we have a FUTURE STUD in the group of Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks and Musgrave...and I even more so believe we are more likely to have two than one in that group. If the two or three that aren't the STUDS can be solid Lazard type guys this group is gonna be special as they all mature and it all clicks.

 

[Magooch]

Take Watson, Doubs and Musgrave, put them in a veteran offense, with better receivers ahead of them and a veteran QB and you have a much different result.

What I find problematic is that we hear the same argument on the opposite side of the coin: give Love a better set of receivers around him and he will have a much different (read: better) result. Or we have people talking about how this is one of the least-experienced offenses EVER assembled as an excuse for Love or whoever’s performances.

And that’s fine too, it’s a reasonable excuse, but what grinds my gears a bit (and this is getting a bit off topic) is that it seems like very few are willing to hold Gute accountable for this and be willing to say “you know what, maybe this wasn’t a great way to assemble a team. Maybe the reason no one has ever had an offense this young in decades is because it just doesn’t work.”

Like we’re basically saying our WRs aren’t put in a position to succeed because of our inexperienced QB and our QB isn’t put in a position to succeed because of our inexperienced WRs and our (incredibly expensive) defense isn’t put in a position to succeed because the offense can’t stay on the field and we can’t afford to invest more in said offense because the majority of that investment capital has went to the defense and yet very few are willing to say maybe this was simply not a good way to assemble a team? Hindsight is 20-20 I guess but when we are over here saying “you could see this a mile away” yet we still chose to continue this direction… man, I don’t know…

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And that’s fine too, it’s a reasonable excuse, but what grinds my gears a bit (and this is getting a bit off topic) is that it seems like very few are willing to hold Gute accountable for this and be willing to say “you know what, maybe this wasn’t a great way to assemble a team. Maybe the reason no one has ever had an offense this young in decades is because it just doesn’t work.”

While I agree with your assessment and criticism of Gute, this started back in the TT time frame and Gute carried on with it. For years, Aaron Rodgers and the Packers had a great group of WR's and occasionally, a good TE. This helped develop Rodgers into the Player he eventually became. However, both TT and Gute decided that the Offense was just fine with Rodgers at QB and they needed to improve the defense. So they pumped a ton of assets, both draft and FA signings into the Defense. Thus, ignoring the impending needs at TE and WR. We all saw this around 2019, when Adams was the only quality receiver on the team or at least I did . Sure, they had some successful seasons, but they still lacked a great TE as well as 2nd and 3rd receivers. Lose Davante before the 2022 season and even Rodgers can't make wine out of sour grapes.

My hope is that Gute, although late to the party, has finally seen the errors of the organization and started paying more attention to that receiving room and who is occupying it. Having what is virtually a rookie QB, exposes its inexperience to everyone.

 

[Schultz]

While I agree with your assessment and criticism of Gute, this started back in the TT time frame and Gute carried on with it. For years, Aaron Rodgers and the Packers had a great group of WR's and occasionally, a good TE. This helped develop Rodgers into the Player he eventually became. However, both TT and Gute decided that the Offense was just fine with Rodgers at QB and they needed to improve the defense. So they pumped a ton of assets, both draft and FA signings into the Defense. Thus, ignoring the impending needs at TE and WR. We all saw this around 2019, when Adams was the only quality receiver on the team or at least I did . Sure, they had some successful seasons, but they still lacked a great TE as well as 2nd and 3rd receivers. Lose Davante before the 2022 season and even Rodgers can't make wine out of sour grapes.

My hope is that Gute, although late to the party, has finally seen the errors of the organization and started paying more attention to that receiving room and who is occupying it. Having what is virtually a rookie QB, exposes its inexperience to everyone.

Exactly my thoughts. This is all Rodgers fault!
( for being so good.)

 

[tynimiller]

While I agree with your assessment and criticism of Gute, this started back in the TT time frame and Gute carried on with it. For years, Aaron Rodgers and the Packers had a great group of WR's and occasionally, a good TE. This helped develop Rodgers into the Player he eventually became. However, both TT and Gute decided that the Offense was just fine with Rodgers at QB and they needed to improve the defense. So they pumped a ton of assets, both draft and FA signings into the Defense. Thus, ignoring the impending needs at TE and WR. We all saw this around 2019, when Adams was the only quality receiver on the team or at least I did . Sure, they had some successful seasons, but they still lacked a great TE as well as 2nd and 3rd receivers. Lose Davante before the 2022 season and even Rodgers can't make wine out of sour grapes.

My hope is that Gute, although late to the party, has finally seen the errors of the organization and started paying more attention to that receiving room and who is occupying it. Having what is virtually a rookie QB, exposes its inexperience to everyone.

We've broken down when the issue was, but likewise all of you demanding a high end WR be taken, realize that comes at a cost to the roster construction overall....it's the downfall of any team and drafting really. Like this coming year in 2024, there are some serious blue chip gamechangers I feel that we may be staring at in Malik Nabers, Keon Coleman or Marvin Harrison Jr...to a lesser degree but still insanely gifted Brock Bowers.

BUT, at WRs we have four guys that have strongly indicated serious chance at amazing future...is it sound tactic to use a first day pick on a WR with such a possibly strong room? There is argument for sure to be had there...but would it serve the roster the best? Lot more season to play out, but right now I would one hundred percent understand a logic that says trade back or nab a CB/EDGE/OL or even DL if you truly believe they are BLUE BLUE CHIP type guy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We've broken down when the issue was, but likewise all of you demanding a high end WR be taken, realize that comes at a cost to the roster construction overall....it's the downfall of any team and drafting really.

It wasn't just that Gute and TT didn't use enough draft resources on WR's, neither of them seemed to put priority on improving on what they had. They had ample opportunity to draft, sign FA's or trade for quality WR's but instead, both seemed fixated on the Defense. This told me, that they didn't view the position as a problem, thus a need. I remember getting into debates with posters here, years ago, about it. Many insisting that I was overreacting.

I am not going to do the work, but if you looked at what the Packers were spending on WR's since say 2016. Then compare it to the other 31 teams, besides Davante, the Packers were at the bottom of total money devoted to the WR's.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Exactly my thoughts. This is all Rodgers fault!
( for being so good.)

There is some truth to that, but I would hardly blame Rodgers himself and I know that you aren't.

We saw glimpses of what happens when the Packers top 1 or 2 WR's were injured and the "JAG's" were just so so while filling in. So yes, Aaron Rodgers talents were able to coverup for the deficiencies in the Receiving room.

 

[tynimiller]

It wasn't just that Gute and TT didn't use enough draft resources on WR's, neither of them seemed to put priority on improving on what they had. They had ample opportunity to draft, sign FA's or trade for quality WR's but instead, both seemed fixated on the Defense. This told me, that they didn't view the position as a problem, thus a need. I remember getting into debates with posters here, years ago, about it. Many insisting that I was overreacting.

I am not going to do the work, but if you looked at what the Packers were spending on WR's since say 2016. Then compare it to the other 31 teams, besides Davante, the Packers were at the bottom of total money devoted to the WR's.

Oh trust me from a fiscal hard cash amount you ain't wrong and whatever placed value you do on draft picks...they spent a decent amount of picks, but not high on the position since then but not a ton.

Now however since then to be fair to Gute and TT what was our production through the WR room compared to the rest of the league? I have no clue if good, better or worse than majority...but it could be they saw it as why invest in a position that is operating above the league mean or even towards the top?

Actually I'm intrigued to know, please compile that for me

 

[PikeBadger]

Again no one is saying Watson isn't an athletic freak...but just as Davante SUCKED at hands on the ball at times when young, Watson to me is not showcasing promise as much as I'd like in his second year. That is far from saying write him off or trade him, which is vastly more doom and gloom.

I don't expect him get it all right or to be a polished veteran route runner at this very moment...but he's ran wrong routes this year it seems too much, and I just don't sense the attacking of the ball is there yet with him. Reed fights, I don't see it as much as I'd like from a dude that doesn't have a single CB that is more a freak than him.

All the defensive backs Watson faces are physically stronger than him from fingertips to shoulders and chest. He needs another off-season in the weight room. So do Reed, Wicks, Toure, Heath and Doubs. None of them are strong enough yet. Watson year 2 reminds me of Nelson year 1 & 2.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Oh trust me from a fiscal hard cash amount and whatever placed value you do on draft picks...they spent a decent amount of picks, but not high on the position since then but not a ton.

Now however since then to be fair to Gute and TT what was our production through the WR room compared to the rest of the league? I have no clue if good, better or worse than majority...but it could be they saw it as why invest in a position that is operating above the league mean or even towards the top?

Actually I'm intrigued to know, please compile that for me

I gave you a for asking me to compile for you.

I agree that if you look at stats and stats only, our passing game wasn't the best and wasn't the worst. However, a lot of that was Rodgers and Adams. It isn't exactly the same, but if you have a Pro Bowl LT and LG and your center, RG and RT aren't starting quality, you aren't complete. So yes, when AR was the QB and Davante was a Packer, the passing game wasn't "bad", but IMO, it could have been a lot better.

Now I realize I have opened the door up to those who think Gute should have drafted a WR instead of Love, but I would counter with that, "Maybe, but he also could have drafted WR's instead of a half a dozen other 1st, 2nd and 3rd round guys. He also could have tried to sign a top FA WR.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

All the defensive backs Watson faces are physically stronger than him from fingertips to shoulders and chest. He needs another off-season in the weight room. So do Reed, Wicks, Toure, Heath and Doubs. None of them are strong enough yet. Watson year 2 reminds me of Nelson year 1 & 2.

Seems upper body strength has never been a forte of Packer WR's. Not sure if that is coincidence or by design. I watch guys like DK Metcalf and they are just beasts when it comes to contested balls.

 

[PikeBadger]

What I find problematic is that we hear the same argument on the opposite side of the coin: give Love a better set of receivers around him and he will have a much different (read: better) result. Or we have people talking about how this is one of the least-experienced offenses EVER assembled as an excuse for Love or whoever’s performances.

And that’s fine too, it’s a reasonable excuse, but what grinds my gears a bit (and this is getting a bit off topic) is that it seems like very few are willing to hold Gute accountable for this and be willing to say “you know what, maybe this wasn’t a great way to assemble a team. Maybe the reason no one has ever had an offense this young in decades is because it just doesn’t work.”

Like we’re basically saying our WRs aren’t put in a position to succeed because of our inexperienced QB and our QB isn’t put in a position to succeed because of our inexperienced WRs and our (incredibly expensive) defense isn’t put in a position to succeed because the offense can’t stay on the field and we can’t afford to invest more in said offense because the majority of that investment capital has went to the defense and yet very few are willing to say maybe this was simply not a good way to assemble a team? Hindsight is 20-20 I guess but when we are over here saying “you could see this a mile away” yet we still chose to continue this direction… man, I don’t know…

Fair complaint I guess but essentially, the GM put the onus on the coaching staff to put the offense in the best position to succeed. There is no NFL rule that says you have to play 3 WR's on 70+ % of your plays. There is no NFL rule that says you cannot run the ball with your 2 best players 50+% of your plays. LaFleur is passing approximately the same amount of the time this year I'd guess as he did last year with a HOF QB and experienced receivers.

 

[tynimiller]

To be fair though Calvin Johnson was not a jacked WR in my opinion any special way...the dude just attacked the ball better than ANYONE up against him. Reed does that far more than Watson even and if I'm Watson I'd take notes.

 

[PikeBadger]

It wasn't just that Gute and TT didn't use enough draft resources on WR's, neither of them seemed to put priority on improving on what they had. They had ample opportunity to draft, sign FA's or trade for quality WR's but instead, both seemed fixated on the Defense. This told me, that they didn't view the position as a problem, thus a need. I remember getting into debates with posters here, years ago, about it. Many insisting that I was overreacting.

I am not going to do the work, but if you looked at what the Packers were spending on WR's since say 2016. Then compare it to the other 31 teams, besides Davante, the Packers were at the bottom of total money devoted to the WR's.

Weak!!!!

You have to include Adams, or you have to remove every other team's highest priced WR too. You don't get it both ways.

False Argument!

 

[Magooch]

Fair complaint I guess but essentially, the GM put the onus on the coaching staff to put the offense in the best position to succeed. There is no NFL rule that says you have to play 3 WR's on 70+ % of your plays. There is no NFL rule that says you cannot run the ball with your 2 best players 50+% of your plays. LaFleur is passing approximately the same amount of the time this year I'd guess as he did last year with a HOF QB and experienced receivers.

Yeah, and that’s fair too, but then I’d push back and say that I also don’t see too many calling for that much criticism of LaFleur too. So it feels like our QB is underperforming, our WRs aren’t put in a position to succeed due to a young and/or underperforming QB, our QB isn’t put in a position to succeed due to young and/or underperforming WRs, our offense is lacking for talent because we’ve invested heavily on the defense, our defense can’t carry games because there’s just too much asked of them, our DC isn’t getting the most out of the players at his disposal, and our head coach isn’t coaching in such a way that puts anyone on offense OR defense in the best position to succeed… but many are still unwilling to say much for any of QB, our WRs, our coach, or our GM to be held accountable for the state of affairs.

And of course it doesn’t have to be solely any one of them, but it seems like the general sentiment I see from a lot of posters is that Love is a good QB, LaFleur is a good coach, Gute has put together a good roster… and I guess we just have to be patient and hope at some point it all clicks and comes together? Hard for me to get behind that.