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2013 needs

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Next spring, might be a rare time Thompson signs a free agent or two. Actually, he has done it before.
    No, not the high-priced, waste of money ones like Mario Williams, or Carl Nicks.
    With the rate of injuries, I just don't see paying so much % of a team salary cap to one guy other than a QB or special OLB.
    Well, there are a few great OTs who's contracts are up: Ryan Clady, Brandon Albert, Jake Long, Sebastien Vollmer, etc.
    But barring more new injuries, I think they feel fine with Bulaga, Sherrod, and Newhouse being 3 fine ones. The thing is, both Bulaga and Sherrod could never recover to the point where they were before. Bulaga and that hip, some worry it's a career-ender like Bo Jakson's hip. Knowing our luck (Sterling Sharpe, Nick Collins, Terrence Murphy, it will be).
    Sherrod's was a nasty injury and he probably will never regain the same strength & flexibility as he had before it.

    That being said, I think the OL will need to draft a legit center somewhere, and either sign or draft an OT who is an OT and not a swing-man.

    I think on defense they are deep as hell already, considering they've lost 2/4 starting DBs, both starting OLBs, and 2 starting ILBs.

    The DL is pretty deep too considering a few decent guys were cut, who were good enough to play.

    I'd like to see him use 5 draft picks on the OL and finding a special RB.
    2 drafts ago, NE drafted 2 RBs in the first few rounds.

    Imagine for a moment, if you will, a RB back there for us that..... the opposing defenses..... actually.... feared. Either as a fast guy who if they took the wrong angle or gap, could explode for a deep one, or a guy who was dangerous out of the backfield like a Marshall Faulk, Matt Forte, MJD, LeSean McCoy, Chris Johnson, etc.

    I'd expect Finley and his $8 mil/year to go bye bye, and would look for a behemoth TE to be drafted. Quarless might never be the same either after that bad knee injury and you cannot bank on him to contribute by next year, so you have Crabtree and Taylor. New England, 3 drafts ago, took both Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez... damn how brilliant does that look now.

    We will draft a QB somewhere in this draft, mark my words.

    By the way, here's a FREE AGENT list of KICKERS. Any of these guys upgrades on Mason Crosby? Remember, we gave Crosby a contract a year or 2 ago that paid him to be an upper-echelon placekicker. Some of these guys would cost the same, maybe less, than what we gave MC for his misses.
    Kickers:
    Mike Nugent – CIN
    Phil Dawson – CLE
    Jason Hanson – DET
    Shayne Graham – HOU
    Lawrence Tynes – NYG
    Nick Folk – NYJ
    Nick Novak – SD
    Steven Hauschka – SEA
    Rob Bironas – TEN


    My wish list:
    Free Agent - OT Will Beaty from NYG.
    Free Agent - OT Tyler Polumbus from Wash.

    Draft:
    2- TE Zach Ertz, Stanford (6'6", 252)
    2- OT Brennan Williams, UNC
    3- C Braxston Cave, Notre Dame
    3- RB Christine Michael, Texas A&M
    4- TE Joseph Fauria, UCLA (6'7", 255)
    5- QB Zac Dysert, Miami-OH
    6- OLB Travis Long, Washington St
    6- RB Dennis Johnson, Ark
    7- FB Zach Boren, Ohio State

    I see Teddy wheeling & dealing, basically trading our #1 for someone's #2 & 3 & 6. Remember, Jordy Nelson in Rd 2 was our first pick a few years ago as TT traded down.
     
  2. thisisnate

    thisisnate Cheesehead

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    Several new deals that need to get done. Hardly worth mentioning.

    I hope Jermichael is gone, and I am perfectly fine with Jennings walking as well.

    Woodson's deal needs to be re-structured or something. Take less $ or hit the trail.

    I'm hoping we bring in a FA running back again. Not Teddy's style, but I'm hoping.

    Crosby needs to spend the off-season in a shrink's office, or we need a new kicker.

    Definitely need to draft a center. Aside from that, OL, RB, QB, TE.
     
  3. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Dunno FrankRizzo, if Barrett Jones is there for the taking when it's our turn to pick in round 1, he could be our long term answer at C and then some. May not want to trade down in that case. I like the Ertz pick in round 2. If we get one of those FA OTs you mentioned, might be better to go for a quality WR in round 3 rather than Braxston Cave if we don't resign Jennings. Don't know Braxston that well, but it seems like Barrett's the top C in the draft -- and one of the top lineman too.

    We have some decent WRs, but it don't anyone's going to fill Jennings' shoes if we let him go. We need a guy who gets off the line without getting jammed and is a deep threat. That's what Jennings gives the Packers.

    We could also use a promising S.
     
  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Jordy + Cobb + Jones + Boykin is super.... but sure, could use another or two behind them....

    Here's how bad our RB's are right now:
    With Johnny White out and Benson done, running back DuJuan Harris said he got some reps with the No. 1 offense this week. He was signed to the practice squad Oct. 24.

    It's possible the Packers could place Quarless on injured reserve Saturday and activate Harris to see if he could assist the run game.

    "I’m not sure what they’ve got planned," said Harris. "If they call my number I’ve got to do my job."

    Harris, 5 feet 7 inches and 205 pounds, ran 40 yards in 4.44 seconds coming out of Troy in 2011.
    "Competitive between the tackles runner," an NFC scout said Thursday. "Has some strength. Shifty. Pretty good instincts. Poor in protection. Not used much as a receiver but pretty good hands. Has fumbled."
     
  5. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Obviously the OL will have to be addressed, particularly OC, but I’d be willing to bet a lot of money Thompson won’t use 5 picks on the OL. And I hope he doesn't as IMO that would be a mistake because that would almost have to involve “reaching”. While Thompson used the first 6 picks on D in the last draft, he selected two for each of the three levels of the D. Selecting 5 OL would be much, much more “targeted”.

    I agree a RB will likely be picked and probably a QB late. I also think Thompson will be looking for Pickett’s replacement.
     
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  6. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    I would think TT will wait until all the big signings in FA are finished, then pick up an offensive lineman or 2 that are left. He'll pick up a RB in the early rounds, and will trade down for additional picks later, which he'll use on linemen more than any other position. If he accumulates 11 draft picks, I think 3 offensive linemen, a tight end, a running back on offense; and 3 defensive linemen, a linebacker, and 2 d-backs. Add a bunch of undrafted FA's and he'll again have a decent spring to assemble a team. And hopefully James Campen is allowed to pursue other opportunities.
     
  7. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    You mean make him the RB coach or WR coach, like they moved Edgar to WR coach?
    Or you mean other opportunities as in... down the road, east, west, or south?
     
  8. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    down the road.....
     
  9. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    Very unlikely that we pick up a difference maker on the line. The good ones won't hit free agency. If they hit free agency, their current team let them leave. I'll pass.

    We need a center, hopefully it works out that our number 1 ( or 2 or 3) lines up with a great one being available. Saturday is the biggest weakness of this year's starters and I'm not sold on EDS. Maybe he plays better at center than guard, but I've not been impressed with his guard play. As the number 4 interior guy, he's great.

    More tackle depth would be nice, but in theory, we'll have 4 health tackles next year with Newhouse, Sherrod, Bulaga, and Datko.

    Newhouse has been fine and exceeded expectations--PFF grades him quite favorably in pass protection.

    Bulaga might actually have lucked out with the hip. The rest should do his tendonitis good. As far as the hip ending his career, anything is possible, but I seriously doubt that. Jackson's hit was vicious. Anyone else gets their leg broken in 2-3 places from that.

    Sherrod should also be fine. Because of where the break was, he just needs to heal up. Little-to-no impact on his knee or ankle.

    Datko is probably the biggest risk. He slipped in the draft due to his shoulder injury. The shoulder injury specifically dinged him because he wasn't physically strong enough (couldn't lift) and he developed terrible technique trying to play through injury. If the shoulder holds up and he takes advantage of the weight room, he'll stick around a long time. If not, well, he was a 7th round flyer, no real loss.

    Besides, center for this year, pass-rushing OLBs and nose tackles are always on 'nice to get early' list. Same for corner. Woodson probably doesn't move from safety once he comes back (Heyward has earned the nickel spot) and Tramon is getting older.

    To your specific list Rizzo, I have to admit I don't follow college ball that much at all. Between hobbies and family, I only have time for the Pros and the Badgers. And sometimes the Badgers get missed.

    1) I have a hard time seeing a tight end going that high. He'd have to grade out as "Gronk Jr." for him to be worth it. Is he? Two tightends? Borderline crazy. Now, if it actually works out that we get Gronk 2 and Hernandez 2, that's awesome, but that strikes me as beyond unlikely.

    2) Trading down is such a crap shoot this early. I like the idea, but for all we know, the guy with Thompson's 5th highest grade is sitting there when they're picking between 24 and 32.

    3) If anything I wouldn't be surprised if Thompson trades up. He has a little extra ammunition for the comp pick from losing Flynn. Can't imagine it'll be a 3 with the lack of playing time Flynn's getting, but the contract alone should net a 4 or 5. I'd look to them packaging 2 and 3, 4 and 4, or 4 and 5 (my trade value chart is missing, so consider those hypothetical) to hop up.

    4) A better running back I approve of and 3rd round is probably the highest I'd pick one up. Can your kid pass protect?

    5) I don't see a corner or wide out in your list. Rather normal for Ted to draft at least one or the other.

    6) That nose tackle. Pickett is getting old and Raji is one year away from free agency. I don't like anyone else on the roster for that slot. Plenty of 3's and 5's, not so much 1's and 0's.
     
  10. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    The Variables.

    1. Free Agents

    Walden
    B. Jones
    Zombo
    Jennings
    Driver
    Benson
    Shields RFA
    Crabtree RFA
    Francois RFA
    White ERFA

    Assuming they all leave that leaves us short on OLB.

    EDS will be a FA as well, but with the endorsement from Rodgers as the Center of the Future, he will re-sign

    2. Injuries

    Bulaga might not come back with his hip injury.
    Sherrod might never recover either and we have the option to drop him after next season.

    3. Age

    Saturday is up there.
    Woodson could retire as well, though in all likelihood he will continue to play.
    Kuhn is 30, and is up next year
    Pickett is 33 and up next year as well

    4. Young Talent

    McMillian
    Perry
    Moses
    Worthy
    Daniels
    Hayward
    *Coleman

    All young, promising, and developing players

    5. Underachievers

    Finley, will probably be let go
    Neal continues to be Neal


    The Possibilities:

    1. Good

    FA re-sign, Sherrod and Bulaga both return in top form, EDS starts, Fin and Neal finally fulfill their potential, Youth develops to starting grade.

    Needs: RB, depth at OL

    2. Bad

    FA leave, Sherrod and Bulaga are done, EDS sucks, Fin leaves, Neal is Neal, Youth shows no improvement, Saturday retires.

    Needs: OL, RB, TE, S, DL, LB, QB, WR.

    3. Somewhere In-between

    Jennings leaves, but FA re-sign
    Zombo is let go
    Bulaga and Sherrod are fine, but Sherrod is still a young inexperienced player who will struggle at times
    EDS is not a viable starter
    Finley is released
    Neal continues to do enough to keep his job.
    McMillian is a serviceable starter at S
    Young DE come along nicely
    Perry develops technique to become an excellent starter at LB
    Coleman shows significant improvement and beats out Harrell
    Driver retires
    Pickett is still old, and with him starting at DE, NT depth is shaky.

    Needs: C, RB, TE, NT/DE, OL depth
     
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    At least last year's draft finally put TT's "best player available" charade to be bed. It has been, and will likely continue to be, "best player available at positions of need" taking into account front line guys who might be gone after 2013.

    I agree about the C position...it's the one injury-free position that clearly calls for a starting-lineup upgrade. After that, there is not much visibility until we see what the guys do down the stretch and how the injuries are shaping up heading into the spring.

    That said, you gotta figure it will be an offense-heavy draft. I could see us going WR, OT, TB, TE, C in the first five picks...not necessarily in that order. We'll need to get further down the line and get more clarity on whether Jennings, Benson and Finley will be with the club next season, and whether Sherrod looks like he has any chance of ever playing football at a high level.

    Pickett's having a good year playing the big body role and should be good through the last year of his contract in 2013. Raji is signed through 2014...after that he might not be worth what he demands. I suppose if the right guy at the right price appears, they might go for an NT, looking out a year. Those guys tend to be hard to find.

    It seems to be against TT's DNA to take C or TE in the first 2 rounds. I was going to include TB, but there was Brandon Jackson in the 2nd. round (ouch!).
     
  12. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Good luck with those FA.
    Ertz AND Fauria is redundant
    CBSSports has Williams at a 3-4 grade, and he struggles a bit in pass pro.
    Michael has talent and versatility. He also has injuries. Often.
    Long has a 6 grade from CBS, and runs in the mid 4.7's
    Johnson is underrated, he beat out Knile Davis to start, which speaks volumes to me.
    Boren can't catch and can't carry, and we already have Crabtree as a capable lead blocker. Besides that, FB and K/P are always available in FA. Why waste the pick if he isn't a wow man?
     
  13. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Do we really need a CB?

    You'd be surprised about trading down. Ted obviously hated himself for trading up last year, and round one guys outside of a few gems are somewhat unimpressive and would easily grade to only a second in a different draft. This won't stop people from trading up, possibly with "Trader Ted" to snag a player at a position of need.

    Michael can pass pro, but he's falling apart at the knees. injury concerns are the only thing keeping him from grading higher.

    WR. Late Round.

    THANK YOU. NT is a BIG need, granted one we can push off for a year.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Corner. WR. I would take a TE early. C. D line. And QB, possibly 3rd round or later
     
  15. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Someone please explain to me the reason we need to pick up yet another corner? I'm just not seeing it.
     
  16. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Unless we're picking late in the first round I don't see us going for a Center # 1. Centers just don't go that high as a rule. I think Pouncey went 18 but that was the highest a center went in the first round for years.
     
  17. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    We don't have an elite corner. Tramon is hot n cold, up n down. Shields, meh, house is ok. Hayward seems to have potential.

    I heavily value corner in the draft. Can't have enough of them.
     
  18. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    A lot has been written on this forum about BPA. I’ve emphasized the idea of talent tiers in the draft and IMO there’s a lot of evidence Thompson adheres to that principle and IMO does so as much or more than any other GM. Again just my opinion but trading up or down is evidence of that. Clearly when a GM trades up in the draft he’s trading up for BPA and when he trades down he’s recognizing there’s a pool of relatively equal talent – not one stand out that fits his team’s needs – and the GM wants to get two picks in that pool or get more in the next. Of course a team’s current roster plays into how the draft board is constructed. For example, it would be idiotic for any team to engineer a massive trade up for a franchise QB if they already have one. But in the upcoming draft in the first round if there’s a NT-type that has a grade at the top of the current tier – or at the bottom of the “upper” tier I’ll bet Thompson pulls the trigger on it. Thompson has said more than once, ’God only makes so many talented big men’.
    Please explain. To find a substantive comment by Ted Thompson on anything is difficult enough, to find one of him expressing regret would be a real find. I’m interested in the evidence you are basing this opinion on. Thompson traded up 3 times in the last draft. He traded picks #59 and #123 for #51 and selected Worthy. He then traded #90 and #163 for #62 and picked Hayward. His last trade-up was using one sixth rounder and two seventh rounders to get his original 5th rounder back to select Terrell Manning.

    Thompson had two comp picks at the end of the seventh round so he didn’t hurt himself at all IMO by trading up for Manning. While Manning hasn’t contributed much, we’ve learned he had a debilitating illness during TC that set him back. We’ll see what he can do next season - I can’t see a reason to be disappointed in the Manning trade-up at this point.

    If the Casey Hayward pick doesn’t qualify as a grand slam home run at this point, it certainly looks like a three-run homer. It’s early but Thompson has to be elated about that trade-up, doesn’t he?

    Jerel Worthy was the most expensive trade-up and he has not provided the consistent inside pass rush we all – and Thompson – were hoping for when that trade-up occurred. But he’s surprised (at least me) by playing the run as well as he has. While he’s provided quality depth on the DL, I expect more pass rush from him and we could very well see it next season. Thompson used fourth round pick #123 to trade up 8 spots to take Worthy. But Thompson had two comp picks after the fourth round and picked Daniels and McMillian 9 and 10 spots after pick #123 he had traded away. IMO it’s likely those two players were on the same talent tier as the players they would have considered at #123. IOW, I don’t think Thompson has any reason to “hate himself” for trading up in the last draft.
     
  19. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    It was a joking comment by TT. http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...ad-to-do/eb3de978-0b63-40e1-9f4e-5cd68501bb96
     
  20. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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  21. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    You forgot House, Frank as a promising youngster.
     
  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The point being that need is an operative concept in the Thompson calculus, which renders "best player available" a somewhat meaningless term. Getting good value while filling needs is everybody's objective; everybody reaches from from time to time to fill a glaring need (Perry).

    Draft success boils down to player evaluation and then coaching...putting the right grade on players to get good value, whether or not trade-up or trade-down is involved, and then coaching them into the system.

    Thompson said he "went crazy" with his pick trading for an all-defense draft. I don't think so. It's one thing to have an ideal in mind...best player available regardless of need...and quite another to face practical realities.
     
  23. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    We're down to 4--Tramon, Sheilds, Hayward, and House. Woodson is done as a corner and might not make the roster next year.
     
  24. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I thought I didn't have us taking a CB... Hayward, House, Tramon all pretty young, Shields very young....
     
  25. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    Tramon isn't that young for a skill position--He's 30 in March. I don't consider him savvy enough to age like Woodson has. Once his speed starts to slip, he'll probably be done. I don't see him sliding to nickel or safety. He doesn't tackle well enough for either position. And he's a bit slight to take the abuse.
     

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