15th overall pick

[GreenNGold_81]

If Moore is a diva, then yeah, I'd stay away. Those guys can ruin a locker room. And we already have a diva.

I doubt he's a diva, saying he's not getting the ball when he isn't getting the ball is just telling it like it is. Plus, that locker went toxic when they stayed with Wilson despite his play and being outperformed by a QB with lesser draft capital and an aging vet - Flacco.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I do wish that Gluten would draft for immediate need when it's obvious help is needed. In this draft, I'd like to see a TE (Mayer) or Safety (Branch) who could almost certainly help immediately. And especially this year, with 4 or 5 very good TE candidates, one should be picked in the first or second round (if available).

As for Safety, I don't think Amos will be back and Savage is kinda useless. So if they don't get a guy like Branch, they'll need to do something in FA. I read yesterday that they were now, magically, like $20 mil under cap, from $20 mil over. So they can spend something in FA. (When do they have to pay for all this cap magic every year? Nevermind. that's another thread.)

TE's almost never help immediately.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

TE's almost never help immediately.

While I tend to agree with you, at some point the Packers should invest in and hopefully hit paydirt on one. Since the 2000 draft, when they draft Bubba Franks in the first round, the Packers have only thrown 3rd round and later picks on TE's. Hitting only on Jermichael Finley in 2008 (3rd round). Gute hasn't had any luck drafting TE's so far.

If Rodgers is the QB next season, while I like Michael Mayer, I tend to agree, his impact probably won't be immediate. So the Packers may choose to try to find another developmental TE and sign 1-2 veteran FA TE's. However, if Rodgers is gone, I'd totally be on board with investing a 1st or 2nd pick in a TE.*

*This post is mostly opinion, but a few facts are mixed in.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well this news may have just impacted the draft! Once predicted to be a top 5 pick, will Carter fall due to this?*

*Obviously, Carter is innocent until proven guilty, so there are no facts being implied on my part as to if he is guilty or innocent.

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[tynimiller]

Gute hasn't had any luck drafting TE's so far.

He's only picked two...Jace was a bust but pretty highly touted for that round in value due to athleticism....and Josiah has been precisely what most expected again for his role in the system. Gute has never taken a swing IMO at a TE I expected to be an amazing or future All Pro possible.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Gute has never taken a swing IMO at a TE I expected to be an amazing or future All Pro possible.

Exactly my point, nothing invested in the position but a couple of 3rd round picks by Gute, both of which I would call picks that never paid off. Sternberger should be a poster child for "total bust" and I think you and I can agree to disagree on the returns (so far) of a 3rd round pick being invested into Deguara.

Maybe MLF's offense isn't specifically designed for a pass catching TE, if it isn't, then invest more in WR's. It is frustrating to have a FHOF QB and fall short every season on receiving weapons for him. They you watch some of the successful teams, having their success due to a very good TE and/or receiving group. For many seasons, Rodgers albatross has been facing a talented, quick defense, with a solid front 7 that puts continued pressure on him. If that defense shut down Davante, the problems were compounded even more. Now had the Packers had a Kelce like TE, I believe Rodgers would have been a lot more successful against that type of defense.

Just my opinion of course, the only factual information I stated was the draft rounds that players were selected in.

 

[Schultz]

So your opinion is if they had drafted or traded for "Kelce" their offense would be better. IMO if they would have drafted JJEFF or traded for CMAC their offense would be better.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So your opinion is if they had drafted or traded for "Kelce" their offense would be better. IMO if they would have drafted JJEFF or traded for CMAC their offense would be better.

In My opinion....I think any of those 3 players improve the Packers, although with Aaron Jones on the team, I think Christian McCaffrey improves the team the least of the 3. I love Justin Jefferson's skill set, but if the Packers had drafted Kelce in 2013 and he had the same career in Green Bay as he has had in KC, I think the Packers win at least one more SB with Kelce. Packers would have had to have traded up from #30 to #21 to have selected Jefferson in 2020. Had they, yeah, he and Adams would have made quite a dynamic duo.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I read yesterday that they were now, magically, like $20 mil under cap, from $20 mil over. So they can spend something in FA. (When do they have to pay for all this cap magic every year? Nevermind. that's another thread.)

It didn't happen magically but with the Packers restructuring several contracts as well as Jones agreeing to take a pay cut. Of course that money being pushed into future seasons will hit the cap at some point down the road.

Savage proved last year worthwhile to have at slot - but not at his fifth year option cost, alas though we cannot change that now.

The Packers could extend Savage to reduce his cap hit for the upcoming season though.

TE's almost never help immediately.

There seem to be some in this year's draft who could end up having an immediate impact.

If Rodgers is the QB next season, while I like Michael Mayer, I tend to agree, his impact probably won't be immediate. So the Packers may choose to try to find another developmental TE and sign 1-2 veteran FA TE's. However, if Rodgers is gone, I'd totally be on board with investing a 1st or 2nd pick in a TE.

I think a rookie tight end would have a much bigger impact with Rodgers around than Love.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

In My opinion....I think any of those 3 players improve the Packers, although with Aaron Jones on the team, I think Christian McCaffrey improves the team the least of the 3. I love Justin Jefferson's skill set, but if the Packers had drafted Kelce in 2013 and he had the same career in Green Bay as he has had in KC, I think the Packers win at least one more SB with Kelce. Packers would have had to have traded up from #30 to #21 to have selected Jefferson in 2020. Had they, yeah, he and Adams would have made quite a dynamic duo.

Yes, they certainly win one more SuperBowl if not two...one of the primary reasons the Packers have lost in the last two playoffs was because of a lack of any decent second threat in the passing game. Adding Kelce, or really any NFL-starter worthy player (I say this to mean a true second receiver) in the passing game would have opened up soooo much for the offense.

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers could extend Savage to reduce his cap hit for the upcoming season though.

Yuck. He has some proving to do.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

There seem to be some in this year's draft who could end up having an immediate impact.



I think a rookie tight end would have a much bigger impact with Rodgers around than Love.

Every year in the draft they say there will be "an impact TE" who will contribute right away. Hockenson, Fant, OJ Howard, etc. Yet, year after year we see that it takes multiple years to get these guys up to speed. Engram maybe had the most impact as a rookie in recent memory and he was peppered with targets. I doubt Rodgers peppers any TE with targets with how seldom he throws to them in general, let alone a rookie TE. We don't know what Love's tendencies are with the ball yet, so it's a little unfair to say that Rodgers would benefit a TE more than Love, IMO.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Yes, they certainly win one more SuperBowl if not two...one of the primary reasons the Packers have lost in the last two playoffs was because of a lack of any decent second threat in the passing game. Adding Kelce, or really any NFL-starter worthy player (I say this to mean a true second receiver) in the passing game would have opened up soooo much for the offense.

Acquiring help via the draft or free agency has proven to be difficult. I suspect teams have known the Pack needs a receiver and thus have increased their asking price to move up in the draft, or free agents have used the Packers as contract leverage to play where they want to at a higher price. Either way, Gutey isn't overpaying here knowing/hoping that Rodgers can spread the ball around regardless of who we throw out there.... Well until last year anyway.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I doubt Rodgers peppers any TE with targets with how seldom he throws to them in general, let alone a rookie TE. We don't know what Love's tendencies are with the ball yet, so it's a little unfair to say that Rodgers would benefit a TE more than Love, IMO.

Well said and I agree. If Rodgers is back, they might want to invest in a 1-2 FA TE's, but spending a top pick on a TE and expecting immediate contribution (w/Rodgers or Love), I just don't see it. Now if Rodgers is out, then I see taking a Top TE and WR for that matter, to have them all learning together.

 

[tynimiller]

Well said and I agree. If Rodgers is back, they might want to invest in a 1-2 FA TE's, but spending a top pick on a TE and expecting immediate contribution (w/Rodgers or Love), I just don't see it. Now if Rodgers is out, then I see taking a Top TE and WR for that matter, to have them all learning together.

IF #12 is back I would also not waste a first day pick on a TE (no matter how much I want Musgrave) due to 12's tendencies there - sign Big Dog back, pick up a low range TE FA and draft a 3rd-4th rounder you like. If 12 is back I want a guy that can shine in the slot personally, but I am not a fan of taking a slot type guy in the first so I'd probably be more inclined to get a starting safety, Tackle or best WR available if 12 is back.

 

[Schultz]

Personally I will not even look at nor pontificate on the 2023 GB draft until after free agency so that I can rate the Packers needs more efficiently.

 

[AKCheese]

If Rodgers is back you need a guy who can go deep an 3rd and 3

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yuck. He has some proving to do.

True, but it might not be a terrible idea to sign Savage to an extension. Don't get me wrong, they definitely shouldn't offer him an average of $8 million a season but I wouldn't mind signing him at a reduced rate to lower his cap hit for next season as well.

Every year in the draft they say there will be "an impact TE" who will contribute right away. Hockenson, Fant, OJ Howard, etc. Yet, year after year we see that it takes multiple years to get these guys up to speed. Engram maybe had the most impact as a rookie in recent memory and he was peppered with targets.

Kyle Pitts had 68 catches for 1,026 receiving yards in his rookie season in 2021.

I doubt Rodgers peppers any TE with targets with how seldom he throws to them in general, let alone a rookie TE. We don't know what Love's tendencies are with the ball yet, so it's a little unfair to say that Rodgers would benefit a TE more than Love, IMO.

When surrounded with a talent tight end Rodgers has definitely targeted him. Unfortunately the Packers haven't had one of them since Finley and Cook for half a season.

 

[Schultz]

IMO. True, but Pitts was considered a disappointment his rookie year based on his pre-draft hype. IMO.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

IF #12 is back I would also not waste a first day pick on a TE (no matter how much I want Musgrave) due to 12's tendencies there - sign Big Dog back, pick up a low range TE FA and draft a 3rd-4th rounder you like. If 12 is back I want a guy that can shine in the slot personally, but I am not a fan of taking a slot type guy in the first so I'd probably be more inclined to get a starting safety, Tackle or best WR available if 12 is back.

Do people forget how often Rodgers targeted the TE when he actually had a good one on the field? Finley had 89 targets in 2011 and 87 targets in 2012, third on the team. "Tendencies" for most players tend to reflect the quality of the options.

 

[tynimiller]

Do people forget how often Rodgers targeted the TE when he actually had a good one on the field? Finley had 89 targets in 2011 and 87 targets in 2012, third on the team. "Tendencies" for most players tend to reflect the quality of the options.

Similar to how people forget how much he bangs Tonyans drum as a guy yet nothing.

Trust me I love TE play and believe me if we are going to Love personally if we get some surplus picks with a Rodgers trade I’d hit reset at TE like we did WR last year. Draft two top 100

 

[GreenNGold_81]

True, but it might not be a terrible idea to sign Savage to an extension. Don't get me wrong, they definitely shouldn't offer him an average of $8 million a season but I wouldn't mind signing him at a reduced rate to lower his cap hit for next season as well.



Kyle Pitts had 68 catches for 1,026 receiving yards in his rookie season in 2021.



When surrounded with a talent tight end Rodgers has definitely targeted him. Unfortunately the Packers haven't had one of them since Finley and Cook for half a season.

Right, I forgot about Pitts. Certainly it can happen for rookies, but he did that with 110 targets. For reference, Tonyan had 67 targets in our system last year. I'd hazard a guess that a rookie in our system gets far less targets.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Do people forget how often Rodgers targeted the TE when he actually had a good one on the field? Finley had 89 targets in 2011 and 87 targets in 2012, third on the team. "Tendencies" for most players tend to reflect the quality of the options.

I agree that Rodgers had some success with both Finley and Cook, but that chemistry took some time, something that if Rodgers is the QB in 2023, the offense won't really have time for. I don't particularly want to see it happen, but if Rodgers is the QB, the Packers might be better off resigning Tonyan and Lewis.

Now if Love is the QB for the future, heck yeah, lets go get a top TE in the draft!

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I agree that Rodgers had some success with both Finley and Cook, that chemistry took some time, something that if Rodgers is the QB in 2023, the offense won't really have time for. I don't particularly want to see it happen, but if Rodgers is the QB, the Packers might be better off resigning Tonyan and Lewis.

Now if Love is the QB for the future, heck yeah, lets go get a top TE in the draft!

Even with Cook, who if healthy would have had 80 targets (~5 /game on av), we didn't get anywhere close to 110 targets. It's like Aaron finally realized what he had with Cook by the end of the season because he began to pepper him in the playoffs. What a shame we let that guy go. When Tonyan had 11 TD's he still got around 60 targets for the year. You'd think when a guy is a TD machine you'd hit him up more often, but not the case with Rodgers.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

With how JSN just ran I dunno if we can pass him up at 15.