Will the Packers win another Super Bowl with MM and Rodgers?

[Zeck180]

I still don't get it why a lot of people think the 2010 defense was lame. It finished 5th in yards and 2nd in points allowed.

I always think if we had that defense in 2011 the Packers could have repeated or for that matter made a historic run for 19-0.

But.. we've been stuck with pretty much the same defense in terms of numbers since 2011. Will the Packers win another with the current coaching staff, simply no.

 

[Chicocheese]

I don't think the problem is Rodgers OR MM, I truly think the problem is Capers. Here is my reasoning:

1) Rodgers trusts McCarthy and McCarthy trusts Rodgers. Rodgers knows that McCarthy trusts him 100% with the offense and will let him make any adjustments he feels he needs to. McCarthy knows that Rodgers won't make a bone head decision and/or a bad adjustment at the line. That trust trickles down to the rest of the offense, they look at Rodgers and know he is THE GUY they need to listen to, AND they know that Rodgers listens to McCarthy.

Some people complain about MM's playcalling, and in the Seattle game I DO agree he had some bad playcalling. The no huddle fast-pace, keep the big guys on the field approach was working, then they stopped. I am a HUGE Lacy fan, but he just wasn't getting it done in Seattle but MM kept handing him the ball, to the point that he go a concussion.

However, you look at yesterday's game vs. the Jets and he did the ring thing. He only gave Lacy the ball 13 times, but it was the right thing to do. The Jets have one of the toughest front 7 in the NFL and our O-Line was under fire EARLY so it made sense to not focus on the run too much and let Rodgers and the Receiving Corps go to work.

2) Capers just can't evolve with the game. For a LONG time I argued that we should keep Capers. He lost Collins, Jenkins, etc. We won a Super Bowl with the guy at the helm of the defense. However, we have had some defense-heavy drafts since XLV and STILL Capers can't figure out the proper defense for the read option. He just can't. The read option is what has killed us in the playoffs the last 2 seasons. We've drafted defensive picks in the 1st round the last two years in Datone Jones and Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix. 2012 was an almost entirely defensive draft, 2013 and 2014 was about a 50/50 split. We've added Julius Peppers and retained Sam Shields. Seattle STILL tore us up, and I worry what would happen if we have to deal with Kaepernick AGAIN.

Sure, the second half the Jets game was 200% better than the first half and I hope the shut-down defense continues but with Megatron coming up and then Marshall, Jeffery, and Forte we will definitely have our work cut out for us. I'm not trying to say that we should abandon him, as I do HOPE we can fix our problems and hoist Coach Lombardi's trophy one more time this season, but if Capers has another dismal season at DC this season I can't see the Packers keeping him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think the problem is Rodgers OR MM, I truly think the problem is Capers. Here is my reasoning:

1) Rodgers trusts McCarthy and McCarthy trusts Rodgers. Rodgers knows that McCarthy trusts him 100% with the offense and will let him make any adjustments he feels he needs to. McCarthy knows that Rodgers won't make a bone head decision and/or a bad adjustment at the line. That trust trickles down to the rest of the offense, they look at Rodgers and know he is THE GUY they need to listen to, AND they know that Rodgers listens to McCarthy.

Some people complain about MM's playcalling, and in the Seattle game I DO agree he had some bad playcalling. The no huddle fast-pace, keep the big guys on the field approach was working, then they stopped. I am a HUGE Lacy fan, but he just wasn't getting it done in Seattle but MM kept handing him the ball, to the point that he go a concussion.

However, you look at yesterday's game vs. the Jets and he did the ring thing. He only gave Lacy the ball 13 times, but it was the right thing to do. The Jets have one of the toughest front 7 in the NFL and our O-Line was under fire EARLY so it made sense to not focus on the run too much and let Rodgers and the Receiving Corps go to work.

Lacy got the ball more often vs. the Jets (13 times) than in Seattle (12 carries). In addition I´m not totally convinced Rodgers trusts McCarthy completely.

 

[jaybadger82]

Hell, I don't trust McCarthy completely.

I'm not campaigning to get him fired but it makes sense to review some of the arguments against keeping MM around:
(1) Feels like this team has plateaued. We've been outclassed in the playoffs for the past few years and, as time passes, our 2010 Super Bowl looks more and more like a team that just got hot and went on an amazing run. A flash of greatness from a team that was otherwise just very good.
(2) I can't remember a game in the last few years where I've thought "McCarthy really got the better of that coach." The play calling is absolutely perplexing at times and what we run looks dated next to some of the inventive stuff our last two opponents have flashed on offense.
(3) MM has been around for a long time. There's plenty of film on his offenses and his coaching tendencies are well-known around the league. Let's be honest, "success breeds complacency" (...and "complacency breeds failure." -Andrew Grove)
(4) Aaron Rodgers turns 31 in December. Our Super Bowl window closes more with each passing season. The prospect of another five or six good-but-not-great years under McCarthy is rather agonizing.
(5) A change in leadership- new ideas and a fresh energy- can have a positive effect on any organization.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Excuse my ignorance here but we seem to be playing a lot of no huddle offence this season okay ?, so who calls those plays, McCarthy or Rodgers ?? I might be putting myself in the firing line here but I`m losing a little faith in Rodgers if I`m totally honest. I`m not saying he needs replacing, I`m just not as keen on him as I was ! Hopefully I will return to eat those words later in the season. I know he has to build a rapport with the young receiver corps etc but I`m not sold on him anymore.

 

[red4tribe]

Excuse my ignorance here but we seem to be playing a lot of no huddle offence this season okay ?, so who calls those plays, McCarthy or Rodgers ?? I might be putting myself in the firing line here but I`m losing a little faith in Rodgers if I`m totally honest. I`m not saying he needs replacing, I`m just not as keen on him as I was ! Hopefully I will return to eat those words later in the season. I know he has to build a rapport with the young receiver corps etc but I`m sold on him anymore.

It's true that his games against the Bears and 49ers at the end of last season were not his finest, but I think that had more to do with rust than anything else(even if he denied that being the reason to the media). As for the first two games this year, he didn't play fantastically against Seattle but that's to be expected given their defense. I thought he looked good against the Jets after the first quarter. Missed a couple of throws he doesn't usually miss, completion percentage was a little low, but he played well enough to bring us back from an 18 point deficit, 3 TD's, 0 INT's around 350 yards. I'll take that any day.

I'm not worried about Rodgers. I'm much more worried about the defense.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

It's true that his games against the Bears and 49ers at the end of last season were not his finest, but I think that had more to do with rust than anything else(even if he denied that being the reason to the media). As for the first two games this year, he didn't play fantastically against Seattle but that's to be expected given their defense. I thought he looked good against the Jets after the first quarter. Missed a couple of throws he doesn't usually miss, completion percentage was a little low, but he played well enough to bring us back from an 18 point deficit, 3 TD's, 0 INT's around 350 yards. I'll take that any day.

I'm not worried about Rodgers. I'm much more worried about the defense.

We can agree on that one !

 

[jaybadger82]

Excuse my ignorance here but we seem to be playing a lot of no huddle offence this season okay ?, so who calls those plays, McCarthy or Rodgers ?? I might be putting myself in the firing line here but I`m losing a little faith in Rodgers if I`m totally honest. I`m not saying he needs replacing, I`m just not as keen on him as I was ! Hopefully I will return to eat those words later in the season. I know he has to build a rapport with the young receiver corps etc but I`m not sold on him anymore.

Hard to know how much of it is the play that's radioed in from the sideline and how much of it is Rodgers decision-making pre- and post- snap. But you're right. Rodgers hasn't looked sharp thus far, either.

Olivia Munn should stop ****ing with our franchise (literally).

My Take: There aren't enough short and intermediate options on many of our pass plays. We're not attacking the middle of the field, which might be the product of our TE issues right now, but it's allowing opposing LBs to pin their ears back and get after our QB and RBs. Rodgers is holding the ball too long, looking down field. At times, he ignores the easy five yard pass to look for the deep hit, which is dumb since our receivers are YAC machines and because a six minute drive is generally better for us than a two minute drive, strategically speaking...

 

[OldSchool101]

Hard to know how much of it is the play that's radioed in from the sideline and how much of it is Rodgers decision-making pre- and post- snap. But you're right. Rodgers hasn't looked sharp thus far, either.

Olivia Munn should stop ******* with our franchise (literally).

My Take: There aren't enough short and intermediate options on many of our pass plays. We're not attacking the middle of the field, which might be the product of our TE issues right now, but it's allowing opposing LBs to pin their ears back and get after our QB and RBs. Rodgers is holding the ball too long, looking down field. At times, he ignores the easy five yard pass to look for the deep hit, which is dumb since our receivers are YAC machines and because a six minute drive is generally better for us than a two minute drive, strategically speaking...

I am in complete agreement, in particular the part about trying to pick up 20 yards on 3rd and 6. I'm not a genius here but isn't the probability of success an 8 yard pass better than a 22 yard pass? Including injury results.
I noticed Sunday my brother mentioned there very few plays with TE sets. The next drive we had a double TE max protection call. 1 WR. It was an 80 yard TD.

 

[Chicocheese]

Excuse my ignorance here but we seem to be playing a lot of no huddle offence this season okay ?, so who calls those plays, McCarthy or Rodgers ?? I might be putting myself in the firing line here but I`m losing a little faith in Rodgers if I`m totally honest. I`m not saying he needs replacing, I`m just not as keen on him as I was ! Hopefully I will return to eat those words later in the season. I know he has to build a rapport with the young receiver corps etc but I`m not sold on him anymore.

I am probably one of the biggest Rodgers fans on the planet. However, I must say he isn't as "pure" as he was in 2009/2010. By that, I mean in the early seasons he didn't seem to force passes, he wasn't trying to get out of the pocket, and he wasn't cocky. He just seemed to drop back, see the field and everything was happening in slow-mo and he tore up defenses. NOW it seems like he is actively trying to extend plays and that is probably due to announcers and analysts always praising him for what he can do out of the pocket.

All that being said, I don't think his skill set has diminished and I am very thankful that he is OUR QB and no some other team's QB. He still doesn't throw a ton of INTs and he makes great throws just about every weekend... but I think that the lack of a real running game threat for a few seasons really went to Rodgers head. How many times prior to Lacy did we throw a 1 to 5 yard TD PASS rather than a RUN? That is power-back territory, and I know that we really didn't have one for a while, but still it all fell on Rodgers and the WR's back. They got it done and I am stoked about that, but just before the 2012 season started Rodgers had an interview with NFL Network and they asked about a running game and Rodgers answered "Do we need one?" and he smiled and laughed a little. I don't think that Rodgers is arrogant or an A-hole, but I DO feel like that statement was a little cocky and made Rodgers come off like "I'm Aaron Rodgers and we're the Packers. We don't NEED a run game." It was tough to hear.

 

[TJV]

Olivia Munn should stop ******* with our franchise (literally).

It's funny you post that. I don't remember if I posted it or not but when the news came out he was in love, I said 'that's great for him, but I hope he still plays a little p!ssed off'.

Regarding Rodgers and the running game, the Jets were loading the box against the Packers so even if a run was called, Rodgers probably checked out of it - as he should.

 

[jaybadger82]

I am in complete agreement, in particular the part about trying to pick up 20 yards on 3rd and 6. I'm not a genius here but isn't the probability of success an 8 yard pass better than a 22 yard pass? Including injury results.
I noticed Sunday my brother mentioned there very few plays with TE sets. The next drive we had a double TE max protection call. 1 WR. It was an 80 yard TD.

Good point. I thought the lack of options at TE really stung us during the Seattle game. The continued development of guys like (Richard) Rodgers and Bostick is reason for optimism with this team. Versatile options at TE make it so much tougher for defenses to identify what an offense is doing/where it's going...

It's funny you post that. I don't remember if I posted it or not but when the news came out he was in love, I said 'that's great for him, but I hope he still plays a little p!ssed off'.

Regarding Rodgers and the running game, the Jets were loading the box against the Packers so even if a run was called, Rodgers probably checked out of it - as he should.

Mickey had it right...

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I feel like opposing LBs are just selling out to attack the LOS. They're vacating that space in the middle and we're not punishing them for it. Force those LBs to cover someone and it will take some bite off the pass rush and open up space for Lacy... Jordy occupies a safety on every drop back- there are big plays to be had with short and intermediate routes and there's often space in the middle of the field. Hope our TEs develop and make some noise this year.

 

[OldSchool101]

Good point. I thought the lack of options at TE really stung us during the Seattle game. The continued development of guys like (Richard) Rodgers and Bostick is reason for optimism with this team. Versatile options at TE make it so much tougher for defenses to identify what an offense is doing/where it's going...



Mickey had it right...

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I feel like opposing LBs are just selling out to attack the LOS. They're vacating that space in the middle and we're not punishing them for it. Force those LBs to cover someone and it will take some bite off the pass rush and open up space for Lacy... Jordy occupies a safety on every drop back- there are big plays to be had with short and intermediate routes and there's often space in the middle of the field. Hope our TEs develop and make some noise this year.

Perfectly said

 

[Zeck180]

Lets see in '10-11 everyone it seemed wanted Slocum gone then TT added a few players to the special teams and since then they have done well. But it really doesn't matter how many good players TT can get for the defense it will still look the same way. I still feel the Packers should have fired Capers because looking at my sig I have no faith in him, and hired Lovie Smith. At lest when Smith was the Bears HC their defense was top 15 nearly every year.

 

[TJV]

In order to hire Lovie, they would have had to fire McCarthy: Lovie wasn't going to take a DC job.