Saints are dirty
- Thread starter angryguy77
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angryguy77
Cheesehead
Yup
N.F.L. Admits Officiating Mistakes in Title Games - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com
Again the non or bad calls did not lose the game for minn. But the NFL knows there were some low blows.
Clay's Jock Strap
TRK's Hero
Old news, been discussed...
And in other news, water is still wet, the sun is still hot and angry guy is still an angry whiner. Waaaaaaaaaah.
:viksux:
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angryguy77
Cheesehead
I havn't been here in a couple of days so didn't know if this thread had been updated. I didn't read all the posts.
I think the dirt in clays jock could provide a more sensible post than the juvenale drivel that you excel at.
Clay's Jock Strap
TRK's Hero
Hey angryboy, I thought you just threw a tantrum and said you were done here? Damnit, and I thought my hammerheadedness got you to take your ball and crawl back to the daily norseman??
Was your saying you were leaving a plea for us to beg you to stay or were you just teasing those of us who'd love to see it happen?
Raptorman
Vikings fan since 1966.
Just for the sake of an argument. And I am not saying this would have happened just that it could have. Say they call the penalty on the Saints for the hit to Brett's legs. That would have negated the interception and given the ball back to the Vikes at the Saints 19 yard line with a first down. It would have been very possible for them to come away with at least 3 points.
Or, Peterson could have lost the ball on the next play. You just never know.
So the non-call could have been costly. We will never know for sure.
Just for the record, I think the lost fumbles cost them the game.
Clay's Jock Strap
TRK's Hero
I just can't agree more. I've never, ever seen a playoff game with a team constantly putting the rock on the ground like the Vikes did in this one. To even be in a position to win is amazing. Generally when you are that careless with the ball you get drilled, like we did in the divisional playoffs in 2002 versus the rams 45-17 when the QB we had at the time threw 6 INTs (3 for pick 6 and another returned inside our 5 yard line)...
When you are careless with the ball you lose, in the playoffs it is even more deadly because the competition is so much better. I honestly don't know how the Vikes almost won that game.
Sadly, I have a feeling that this super bowl will be a lot like SB XXXIII when Denver rolled Atlanta. Denver (like Indy) was the best team in the AFC. Atlanta got lucky to get by Minnesota who was the best team in the NFC (like I think they probably were this year) - leading to a super bowl mismatch.
In short, I don't think we got the best super bowl matchup that is likely to lead to a great game. I think the Saints need a lot to go right for them to have a chance. I think Minnesota/Indy would have been about even.
charlotte
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For the record, there was a fine levied today.
$20,000.
kinda makes you go hhhmmmm.
$20,000.
kinda makes you go hhhmmmm.
ThinkICare
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Yeah, and Berry was fined for his helmet-to-helmet hit on Rodgers that wasn't called. I don't really care as to what Mike Pereira says since he clearly just wants to back his refs up on almost everything and doesn't want to admit that many things. I find it funny Vikes/BF fans downplayed the face mask on Rodgers on the last play saying he fumbled it after he had the incidental contact(which it wasn't incidental). Seems like people want to deny that there wasn't any pulling or jerking of the face mask of the face mask(which there clearly was). BF/Vike fans want Pack fans to admit to BF getting dirty hits, but when they downplay a clear face mask on the final play which is basically like a late hit. Never mind that it was even a face mask, it was a blow to the head to the QB. Please don't talk about bad calls, because Packer fans know we had bad calls and don't need BF/Vike fans to help them out. Again, not saying that is the sole reason we lost, but it contributed to the loss. It's great that the VP of officiating admitted to a bad non-call, I'm glad he's admitted something like that. I wish he would at least acknowledge more bad calls in the future.
I guess a thing that bothered me was that vike/bf fans said the Rodgers face mask happened after the ball was out of his hands. Well, so were all these so-called "dirty" hits on Favre. I don't think BF/Vike fans realize their hypocritical ways and haven't actually taken that into account. Before someone says the face mask cannot even be compared to BF's brutal hits, there's a reason face mask penalties are called and it's because players can get seriously injured. The face mask on Rodgers is a lot more concrete then the hits on Favre just because people such like angryguy and other BF fans have said that they know what the Saints players intentions are whereas the facemask on Rodgers can be clearly seen. It just boggles my mind that people thought the saints players were sooooo "dirty" that they are willing to try to contact Roger Goodell by phone or stop by his house.
PackersRS
Cheesehead
My very first post after the game I referenced that I thought the refs clearly favored the Saints.
But one also might say that if the helmet to hemet hit was called, they would've negated the holding penalty, the packers wouldn't have to drive 20 yards for the first down, and that the play probably wouldn't have been a slow to develop pass. It might've even been a run...
Clay's Jock Strap
TRK's Hero
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_oKVuzExJw]YouTube - Green Bay Packers screwed by refs against Arizona Cardinals in ovetime (HQ)[/ame]
At the 1:30 mark I'd love for anyone to tell me this isn't a "twist and pull"... The officials got it totally wrong and for the head of officials to back them up is outrageous. And as I said earlier, even if it isn't a facemask it is contact to the head.
The ref didnt interput the face mask that way..
They never said it was right or wrong non call, just the ref made a judgment call
They never said it was right or wrong non call, just the ref made a judgment call
Clay's Jock Strap
TRK's Hero
What judgement call? Hands to the face of the QB is a penalty. There is no interpretation of that - either you did or you didn't. The only interpretation is on a face mask call... On a non-QB the interpretation of the face mask is the issue on a QB it sort of becomes moot doesn't it?
Sounds like karma coming full circle to me. Favre and his crack back block in the pre-seaon and Allen is top 5 cheap shot artist in the league.
ThinkICare
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I forgot that he said it was a Judgment call. Makes more sense why it wasn't called, but it was a blow to the head of the QB. I don't see how that can't be called.
that was the "official" ruling by the head ref on nfl network..or he said something similar
Clay's Jock Strap
TRK's Hero
These refs will never be accused of coddling the quarterback - Shutdown Corner - NFL Blog - Yahoo! Sports
Shutdown Corner
Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:40 pm EST
These refs will never be accused of coddling the quarterback
By MJD
It's been a popular year for criticizing the NFL for protecting quarterbacks too much. About a million times over the last four months, I've heard things like, "Come on, quarterbacks are football players, too!" and "Why don't we just put skirts on them?!"
People who say things like that must have loved the Arizona/Green Bay overtime. Aaron Rodgers(notes) was violated in several ways, and we saw nary a flag.
First, on second-and-10, Rodgers dumped the ball off to Jarrett Bush(notes) on a play that went for about 15 yards. We actually did see a flag there, but it was for holding on the Packers, not the blatant helmet-to-helmet hit Rodgers took after getting rid of the ball.
Bertrand Berry(notes) got to Rodgers and jammed the crown of his helmet right up under Rodgers' facemask. In a year when we've seen guys penalized 15 yards for having their knuckles graze a quarterback's facemask (and just for the record, I'm fine with calls like that, as long as they're called consistently), it was a bizarre no-call.
The holding call stood, negated the gain, and pushed the Packers back to their own 10-yard line. Obviously, that had a huge play in the game.
Secondly, and this no-call seems to be generating more controversy, on the game-ending fumble return play, Cardinals defensive back Michael Adams(notes) hit Rodgers and then facemasked him on the way down. Again, it drew no yellow laundry. You can see it in the picture above, and you can see it in the video here. It wasn't glancing, incidental contact. That hand was on the facemask for awhile.
Hands to a quarterback's face are illegal, period, let alone grabbing his facemask and not letting go for a couple of seconds. On Twitter, the great Peter King explained how and why the call wasn't made. You're going to love this.
It all felt an awful lot like one of those basketball games where, at the end, the officials swallow their whistles, and you'd have to hit a guy with a steel folding chair to get a call. There were two blatant violations committed, in a year where we're emphasizing those exact points, and neither of them were called.
Special thanks to Doug Farrar for his help with this post.
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Shutdown Corner
Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:40 pm EST
These refs will never be accused of coddling the quarterback
By MJD
You must be logged in to see this image or video!
People who say things like that must have loved the Arizona/Green Bay overtime. Aaron Rodgers(notes) was violated in several ways, and we saw nary a flag.
First, on second-and-10, Rodgers dumped the ball off to Jarrett Bush(notes) on a play that went for about 15 yards. We actually did see a flag there, but it was for holding on the Packers, not the blatant helmet-to-helmet hit Rodgers took after getting rid of the ball.
Bertrand Berry(notes) got to Rodgers and jammed the crown of his helmet right up under Rodgers' facemask. In a year when we've seen guys penalized 15 yards for having their knuckles graze a quarterback's facemask (and just for the record, I'm fine with calls like that, as long as they're called consistently), it was a bizarre no-call.
The holding call stood, negated the gain, and pushed the Packers back to their own 10-yard line. Obviously, that had a huge play in the game.
Secondly, and this no-call seems to be generating more controversy, on the game-ending fumble return play, Cardinals defensive back Michael Adams(notes) hit Rodgers and then facemasked him on the way down. Again, it drew no yellow laundry. You can see it in the picture above, and you can see it in the video here. It wasn't glancing, incidental contact. That hand was on the facemask for awhile.
Hands to a quarterback's face are illegal, period, let alone grabbing his facemask and not letting go for a couple of seconds. On Twitter, the great Peter King explained how and why the call wasn't made. You're going to love this.
The referee, Scott Green, stands behind the pocket and has to watch first for the loose ball. Once the ball is out, Green's job is to watch ball for possession. He can't watch the QB then. If he saw the facemask, it'd mean he wasn't watching ball. It's a quirky rule, but it's the referee's call -- and the ref is charged with possession once the ball is loose.
Basically, the guy wasn't watching because it wasn't his job to watch. That's a great tip for all you young defensive players out there: After the quarterback fumbles, it's the ideal time to stab him with a sharpened toothbrush. No one's looking!
It all felt an awful lot like one of those basketball games where, at the end, the officials swallow their whistles, and you'd have to hit a guy with a steel folding chair to get a call. There were two blatant violations committed, in a year where we're emphasizing those exact points, and neither of them were called.
Special thanks to Doug Farrar for his help with this post.
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angryguy77
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There is not a single place where I said the non/bad calls gave NO the game. I've said it multiple times as to why the viks lost: TO's. All I stated was that the Saints played dirty. I do not attribute non calls to their dirty play as a reason for the Minn loss. I attribute the Viks loss on one thing: the Vikings.
I didn't post the link to show bad calls or to cry about the refs. I posted it to show that there were hits that didn't fall into the clean catagory. IMO the Saints played a bad style thats all. I don't want to see this happen to any QB. The hit on Rodgers should have been called as well. But like this game, was not the reason GB lost either. One hit in a game is bad, but can be forgiven. Multiple hits and thats a sign of dirt. Look what their D coach said this week and you will see what they were out for. I would bet my life that if #4 had a "g" on his helmet, you all would be in agreement with me.
ThinkICare
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I do agree that the Packers did dig themselves into a hole and the 2 missed calls really shouldn't have mattered since they gave up so much yardage.
I did hear what Greg Williams said. You might not give much merit to Mike Golic's words when he talked about it on Mike & Mike. If you are not aware, he played for the Eagles and one other team, so he played in the NFL for at least 7 years or so. He said that that is the mentality of a lot of coaches, people shouldn't be shocked when coaches say things like that. Not many coaches really speak out about it, but it doesn't mean they aren't talking to their guys about. They just don't speak their mind so much like Greg Williams did not too long ago on that radio talk show. PackersRS has been talking about this too on here. That is the mentality of a lot of teams. To get after the QB and get him out of the game. Sometimes there are bounties, it's not a rare thing at all if you are implying that.
FanOfTheGame
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Actually, 4 fines were levied today for unnecessary roughness. McCray was fined $10,000 for his blow to Favre after Favre was out of the play and another $10,000 for his shot to Favre's knees. Casillas was fined $5,000 for blasting Reynaud after the fair catch signal. Hargrove was also fined $5,000 for driving Favre into the ground.
Considering this, Gregg Williams' comments and the viciousness of the hits on Sunday I am left with only one conclusion... The Saints did play dirty.
Forget Favre
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To say the Saints played "dirty" is an opinion.
And I can't share that opinion since this is football and I'm not a fan of the Viqueens or anyone who plays for them.
For me to call it "dirty" would be like saying a boxer gave a cheap shot to the face of the boxer he knocked out and won the fight with.
And I can't share that opinion since this is football and I'm not a fan of the Viqueens or anyone who plays for them.
For me to call it "dirty" would be like saying a boxer gave a cheap shot to the face of the boxer he knocked out and won the fight with.
PackersRS
Cheesehead
It's one thing to consistantly hit the kidneys of the opponent.
It's another to hit "low".
charlotte
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And on the other hand, there's flopping and then there's flopping. Methinks Favre went to the Sam Cassell School of Flop.
Not saying the fines aren't justified, BUT Favre has had ankle issues for years. That's what his injury is now.
And I say again, you put a guy out there that has well documented issues, any opposing coach worth his salt is going to try his best to exploit those issues.
It's almost reached the point of absurdity when it comes to where a defender can hit a quarterback without fear of monitary loss. And to levy fines on hits that aren't flagged in the actual game is openly admitting the refs got it wrong.
Look, the REAL issue here is the absolutely horrid officiating that has only gotten worse over the past few years.
The League better address it because the outcomes of games can be in question - the fans (the paying public) will question it and already are. How many of said fans are calling "fix" already.
And as ridiculous as that is in this case - the revenue generated by a Favre/Manning matchup has far more potential than a Brees/Manning bowl - it will be an issue going forward times four.
Not saying the fines aren't justified, BUT Favre has had ankle issues for years. That's what his injury is now.
And I say again, you put a guy out there that has well documented issues, any opposing coach worth his salt is going to try his best to exploit those issues.
It's almost reached the point of absurdity when it comes to where a defender can hit a quarterback without fear of monitary loss. And to levy fines on hits that aren't flagged in the actual game is openly admitting the refs got it wrong.
Look, the REAL issue here is the absolutely horrid officiating that has only gotten worse over the past few years.
The League better address it because the outcomes of games can be in question - the fans (the paying public) will question it and already are. How many of said fans are calling "fix" already.
And as ridiculous as that is in this case - the revenue generated by a Favre/Manning matchup has far more potential than a Brees/Manning bowl - it will be an issue going forward times four.
Jess
Movement!
Fans saying the league is fixed are idiots. Plain and simple.
The way to fix this is simple: add more refs to the field. More eyes, less stuff missed. I don't see why the NFL doesn't just do that, it's simple.
The way to fix this is simple: add more refs to the field. More eyes, less stuff missed. I don't see why the NFL doesn't just do that, it's simple.
Raptorman
Vikings fan since 1966.
Just for some more fuel. The Saints DC on the radio today.
"You know this guy [Manning] has a great clock in his head. The big thing is he throws the ball so early that we are going to have to do a good job of finding ways to get to him," Williams told radio station WGFX. "When we do get to him, we are going to make sure to have a couple of remember-me shots on him when we get there."
Indianapolis Colts not playing trash-talking game with New Orleans Saints - ESPN
Remember me shots. Does he realize that what he is saying can come back to haunt his own QB? Teams will remember stuff like that. The Colts are staying quiet on the subject.
"You know this guy [Manning] has a great clock in his head. The big thing is he throws the ball so early that we are going to have to do a good job of finding ways to get to him," Williams told radio station WGFX. "When we do get to him, we are going to make sure to have a couple of remember-me shots on him when we get there."
Indianapolis Colts not playing trash-talking game with New Orleans Saints - ESPN
Remember me shots. Does he realize that what he is saying can come back to haunt his own QB? Teams will remember stuff like that. The Colts are staying quiet on the subject.
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