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Saints are dirty

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by angryguy77, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    If anyone believes a team won't use a key way to win by trying to be more physical the other team, they must live in another world.

    As I said, their intentions were clearly to get to Favre. To be on his face and punish him. It's up to the refs to call any out of place moves.

    But to affirm that they were trying to hurt him out of the game, that's absurd.

    Or did you see any Saints players kick him, bite him or go for his knee or helmet?

    He had brutal hits, no doubt. But Rodgers was hit in the helmet, and pulled the facemask, for crying out loud.
  2. Clay's Jock Strap
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    Clay's Jock Strap TRK's Hero

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    I was wondering about that tonight charlotte. So the answer is "no"? Hmmm...

    Honestly, I thought the Saints used a great game plan. They hit favre HARD and OFTEN. It was often on the fringe of the rules. I think they commited a couple fouls on technicalities (like the high low where he had his ankle mangled), but it wasn't intentional. That was wiped out by the BS roughing call they took for basically tackling him.

    Their game plan was the correct one, and honestly the oldest in the book to get in the head of a QB. The NFL has tilted the field of play with rules to increase scoring and protect the health of the cash cows. It is about money, I get it... But in the old days they just called this stuff football.
  3. FanOfTheGame
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    FanOfTheGame Cheesehead

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    What? When I said it was obvious that the Saints' stragegy was to INJURE THE QB AND GET HIM OUT OF THE GAME you agreed as if I was stating the obvious:



    But now it's absurd to say they were trying to hurt him out of the game?!

    You also say it's up to the refs to call any out of place moves. Does that mean that the facemask on Rodgers was not out of place since the refs didn't call it? I think you would agree that the refs don't always call out of place moves. If I'm trying to determine whether or not something is dirty, I'm not going to rely on the refs to make that determination for me, but you are free to do so.
  4. dewitt60
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    dewitt60 Cheesehead

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    For the last 10 years Favre has been a referee darling. The Viking fans were the most vocal about it, the same fans now whining about cheap shots. I think the game was called pretty fairly where Brett was concerned and a solid argument can be made that in the high low the low was blocked into him. The rest was on his offensive line and Childress. WTF didn't they roll him out more on play action? If Brett has 3 seconds or less on a blitz he'll kill you. When the rush up the middle was beating him in the ground why didn't the Vikes get creative with the pocket? We did it with Rodgers all year and it worked. As to who lost the game the last guy that ****** up gets the prize especially if he has a big history of ******* up big games. Sorry you expended so much energy Burt just to have it blow up in your record whoring pompus *** face. I do thank you for Childress' extension. That should cement our playoffs when you retire unretire retire and TJack takes the reigns. Childress is an idiot.
  5. charlotte
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    charlotte Cheesehead

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    I also find it quite ironic that the fans of a team which includes J Allen are whining about cheap shots.

    Allen is, imho, one of the dirtiest players around today.

    Now on to game strategy. You can bet your sweet a** that if I'm the coach of a team going up against an aging player with a proclivity to make ill advised throws in high pressure situations, I tell my team to get in his face and to get there often.

    On the flipside, if that same aging player is on my team, I make damn sure my offensive line makes it their main priority to protect him.

    Once again I'll say it...it's not ballet people. It's football. I offer a quote from a great player and present coach on the Packers staff....

    Establish the violent physical nature of the game - Kevin Greene

    Notice he uses two fitting adjectives to describe the game he played so well.
  6. Incubes12
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    Incubes12 Bay Harbor Butcher?

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    Think about this. The Saints are a blitzing team. They put pressure on Favre and knocked him down when they could. That's not cheap. The Jets do it, the Vikings themselves do it, the Cardinals do it, heck, any team with a decent set of linebackers is going to blitz every so often. It's strategy.

    Rodgers was (probably) knocked down more than any QB in the league this year (I don't actually know the stats, but it's got to be close). We never whined that other teams were cheap, we realized the weakness of our O-line and accepted it for what it was.

    So, finally a team can get to Favre and knock him down. All of a sudden they're cheap for wanting to put pressure on him? You can try and argue that some of those hits were illegal, but BY YOUR OWN LOGIC, if the refs didn't think they were illegal, than you shouldn't either.
  7. PackersRS
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    I re-looked at the posts, and did agree with that.

    I change my statement. It may or may not have been driven by emotions...

    Thinking better, I find it hard to believe that they were trying to injury him. To hurt him, yeah, but not to injury him.

    And such accusation should be proved. The Vikings themselves will never make such claim. And I don't believe a professional football player would try to jeopardize intentionally the career of another player...
    I didn't say they didn't play dirty. I didn't say playing till the refs call it isn't dirty.

    There's a difference in wanting to hit hard and wanting to injury. A very clear difference to me.

    They no doubt wanted him to feel pain, but to injury him?

    I may be talking semantics here, but to me it's not. It's a lot more serious when a player goes for the knee than when a player drives another to the ground.

    I don't know how to put it exactly. I think both the Cardinals and the Saints were trying to inflict pain in both QBs. I believe they were dirty.

    But they didn't have the intention to injury both qbs. I don't believe it was to that degree.

    Their degree of dirtyness is "acceptable", I would say. Or baring it.
  8. Clay's Jock Strap
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    Clay's Jock Strap TRK's Hero

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    eJack Tatum played to injure people - permanently. He succeeded with Stingley. People who want to lay a good hard lick IMO are not dirty, they are football players. You are right, there is result and intent. Players get hurt, it is a violent game. The "legal" target zone where you can hit a QB shrinks ever year - as does the ways you can legally bring him to the ground. The game is fast as hell and the difference between getting the guy on the ground and ending a play and maybe a drive and him completing a pass for a first down or score is often a split second. These guys aren't all MENSA members who can quickly do long division in their heads... My point is, much of this stuff is bang-bang. You don't have time to think, "Oh man, there he is but I am on the ground so I can't "lunge at him" so I have to get up and wrap him up around the waste, but if I do I can only hit him above point x and below point y"... It is getting f'n ridiculous - to the point where I think the league should just make the QBs wear flags. Rip it off and he is down.

    The Saints had a game plan to hit farvre hard and often. They executed it and it got them to the Super Bowl. I don't think they played "dirty" because I do not believe their intent ever was to injure him. If an injury happend as the result of a hard hit, so be it, that's football.

    Why did nobody cry when earlier in the year favre almost ended Eugene Wilson's year with one of the dirtiest, most chicken **** crack back blocks I've ever seen?
    • Like Like x 2
  9. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    That's what I'm trying to say.

    That's what I mean by "professional football player" also. With FA and such, you could very well be the teammate of the player you're hurting, so 98% of the players nowadays won't try to injury nobody, unlike during Tatum's days.
  10. FanOfTheGame
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    I originally said that I didn't know if the Saints were playing dirty. It is what I was trying to determine myself. I said it seemed obvious "to me" that they were trying to injure Favre and get him out of the game. It is not something I could or can prove.

    But once you agreed that their strategy was to injure Favre and get him out of the game there was no need to prove it (as between you and me). I was having a discussion with you working off of the understanding that we both thought they were trying to injure Favre and get him out of the game.

    Basically, you were just confirming that what I saw was in fact accurate. With that confirmation and our following discussion I came to the conclusion that the Saints were playing dirty.

    Although you have changed your statement, our discussion was still helpful in leading to my conclusion. I still think their strategy was to injure Favre and get him out of the game which we have both agreed is unacceptable and dirty. We just disagree on whether or not that was actually their strategy. Of course I cannot prove it, but then again I'm not trying to convince anybody that it was their intention.
  11. ThinkICare
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    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    Angryguy, have anything to say?
  12. Raptorman
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    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    The NFL does not announce fines until Friday after the game. Check back on Saturday and see if they still haven't issued any fines.

    For those wondering if the Saints were trying to hurt Favre, go back and watch the game. As a fellow Packer fan pointed out on another board, no Saint player tried to tackle Favre by wrapping his arms around him. Every hit he took was intended to be an impact hit. No attempts to "wrap" him up. Go back and look how they took out Warner. He was yards away from the ball and the DE came up and decked him from his blindside. Legal hit, yes. But unnecessary. The reason the Saints had no sacks is they didn't try to get any.

    Make up your own mind on it. Do I think they were trying to "hurt" him? Not really. I think they were intent on making him "hurt" as much as possible legally. They certainly had no intent of wrapping him up.

    And let me add that I hope the Packers make it to the playoffs next year, and I hope they get to play the Saints. After all the Saints use such a wonderful tactic to take Favre out of the game, I'm sure it would work on Rodgers.
  13. Forget Favre
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    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Aaron Rodgers rushing stats:
    16 games
    58 rushs
    316 total yrds
    19.8 yrds avg game
    5.4 per avg per carry
    5 TDs

    Burnt Face
    16 games
    9 rushes
    7 total Yards
    0.4 yrds avg game
    0.8 avg per carry
    0 that's zero nada no TDs.

    The Saints would have to catch A-Rod first.
    And it looks like A-Rod would have probably run and made it instead of throwing it away.

    [​IMG]

    YOU FAIL!!!!
  14. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    didnt Allen say in the paper I am going to put my helmet through his spine?

    Isnt that a blatant attempt to say I want to injury him and get him out of the game?
  15. Clay's Jock Strap
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    Clay's Jock Strap TRK's Hero

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    Yeah, Allen's a really classy guy with a way with words. It is no wonder he is firmly embraced as a Viqueen by their shallow fan base.


    Packers keep Allen's words from becoming deeds | StarTribune.com

    By CHIP SCOGGINS, Star Tribune
    Last update: September 9, 2008 - 1:09 PM

    GREEN BAY, WIS. - Vikings defensive end Jared Allen said during training camp that he hoped to bury his helmet in Aaron Rodgers' spine when he faced the Green Bay quarterback in the season opener Monday night.

    He didn't get that opportunity. And he was not happy
  16. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    That's exactly what I thought they did, that's IMHO not dirty, and that's exactly what Rodgers faced against the Cardinals.

    The difference between trying to hurt Rodgers and Favre is that, though wildly regarded as an iron man, Favre is 40, and after he took some hits, he was clearly trying to avoid being hit (just look at his first int.)

    While Rodgers, for being hit so many times early in the season, and after struggling with it, has learned to take the hits, and is capable of so, being young.
  17. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yeah, but we're talking about a douchebag and a dirty player. It's not the majority of the cases...
  18. Clay's Jock Strap
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    Clay's Jock Strap TRK's Hero

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    Also, Rodgers had more yards running than any QB in the league - by quite a margin. When you have wheels like that the D has to respect his ability to burn you by leaving areas voided that he can run to. Favre is a sitting duck in the pocket now and that showed on Sunday. Who here doubts Aaron would have tucked it and run for 10 on that play where favre threw the pick?
  19. ThinkICare
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    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    Wait, so if this thread was started about the Saints being dirty, but angryguy says that if they were "dirty", it wouldn't have helped the Saints to win, why was it brought up then? Anyone explain this? Seems like the reason angryguy said it would have no way helped the Saints win is to somehow make him feel superior to Packer fans. Mission Accomplished!
  20. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Mike and Mike in the morning said they werent dirty...

    Maybe a little borderline penalty plays but not dirty
  21. ThinkICare
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    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    It's also interesting to note that BF fans in here have said that Packer fans has these crazy conspiracies about the refs plotting against us, which of course a huge exaggeration, then THIS thread gets started. Makes you wonder...
  22. Clay's Jock Strap
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    Clay's Jock Strap TRK's Hero

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    Pereira admits missed calls in championship games

    Posted by Michael David Smith on January 27, 2010 8:05 PM ET
    Vikings quarterback Brett Favre and Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez both took hits during Sunday's conference championship games that should have resulted in penalties but were not flagged, V.P. of NFL officiating Mike Pereira says.

    "They're missed calls," Pereira said on his "Official Review" segment on NFL Total Access.

    On a Favre interception against the Saints, Remi Ayodele hit Favre high while Bobby McCray hit him low, and Pereira said McCary should have been flagged for getting Favre in the lower leg.

    "It is the kind of hit that we want called because, clearly, we're trying to protect the knees," Pereira said.

    Pereira also said Colts defensive back Melvin Bullitt should have been flagged for drilling Sanchez well after Sanchez had handed the ball off.

    Jets coach Rex Ryan referred to Bullitt's hit as a "cheap shot," while Clark Judge of CBS Sports has referred to the failure to flag McCray as the game's "low moment." It probably isn't much consolation to Jets and Vikings fans now, but Pereira admits the flags should have been thrown.
    -----------------------------------------

    Well there you have it Vike fans, the head of the refs is admitting error. Do you need chap stick for your bung holes now? In all seriousness, Pereira is an *** hat. So he says that there should have been a flag on the high-low... Yeah, thanks, we already knew that. How about the 15 yarder that was called that shouldn't have been? No comment on that. And this is the same dbag who defended the facemask on Rodgers as the correct call when ANY contact to the head of the QB is a penalty - and he also never said **** about the blatant helmet to helmet on Rodgers 2 plays earlier that actually drew a fine from the league. In short, this guy is a clown.
  23. charlotte
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    charlotte Cheesehead

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    okay. Let's see if there are any fines.
  24. PackersRS
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    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    there!
  25. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    how soon people forget

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_KqRT3lMq4&feature=related"]YouTube - Brett Favre Injures Defender with Crackback Block (Vikings/Texans)[/ame]



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