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Datone Jones

Discussion in '2013 Draft Archive' started by BorderRivals.com, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. BorderRivals.com
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    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    See people are linking him to Packers. I always thought he was a 4-3 end. So, do any of you know how he'd fit with us and/or watched him play? Is he too similar to Worthy in that he's more speed than power? He's 6'4" and 275 lbs. Doesn't seem like a fit except in sub-packages.
  2. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    I say that if you are a 4-3 guy and that is what you played through out college, stay that way. The conversion is tough for most guys. Going from a 4-3 end to a 3-4 LB is really asking a lot imo. Some guys have a hard time going from a hand in the dirt pass rusher/run stuffer to a LB type that is also asked to drop into coverage. The transition can be difficult. Why should we have to train the dog to do new tricks?
  3. FrankRizzo
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    This guy reminds me of the similar, undersized, Jarius Wynn out of Georgia about 3 years ago.
    I don't want him in Rd 1.
  4. HardRightEdge
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    I believe the consensus says he's not big/strong enough to set the edge in 3-4.
  5. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Don't the LB's set the edge in a 34?

    Yeah, 43 DE. I just don't see him projecting well to the 34 at any position.
  6. HardRightEdge
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    Actually, no. Ideally, in the run game a 3-4 DE should be able to protect the inside 5 gap while also being able to work off the tackle or TE to the outside 7 or 9 gap. Working to that outside position "sets", or defines, that 7 or 9 gap as the edge, allowing the LBs to work inside out from that spot if the play goes to the perimeter.

    Big hands, long reach, strength and leverage are the package to make that work against NFL tackles.

    In fact, during the NFL Channel draft broadcast Mariucci specifically mentioned Jones ability to "set the edge" for the Packers. I think that remains to be seen.
  7. HardRightEdge
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    Clearly, the notion that Packer management bought into the idea that we need to get more physical has been exaggerated. As 3-4 DEs go, Jones is a finesse/speed player. Once again, TT goes for the guy with upper echelon athletic measurables for his position in the 1st. round.

    In fact, I could see him dropping in coverage from time to time in a disguised blitz or even rushing from the OLB spot in nickel if Capers would let him put his hand in the dirt (as the Texans do).
  8. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    mike mayock had him rated the 27th best player

  9. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    REACH!!!
    :D
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  10. HardRightEdge
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    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    So, if he was the only guy who consistently beat Fisher one-on-one, then why didn't Mayock rate him higher than 27th.? I think it comes back to the run game.
  11. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Ketchman has an interesting article (already linked on this site) on Datone Jones calling him a “new age” defender.
    Capers plays “sub packages” (nickel and dime usually with 2 down DL) more than the 3-4 but against read-option QBs and teams which emphasize the run like the Vikings, he plays more 3-4. “Okie” refers to one of two versions of the 3-4 Capers uses, the other being “Eagle”. In the Okie, both DEs line up directly over the OTs and the NT is directly over the OC.


    Ketchman writes the Packers picked Jones instead of Sly Williams because Williams is a conventional “old age” DE. Ketchman argues Jones is the new prototype:
    That definitely gives Capers more flexibility and if Jones is as advertised, better pressure on the QB as one of the DL in the sub packages.


    It sounds like Jones has a good attitude and was accomplished on the field. I didn’t watch him play at all last season but I like what I’m hearing and reading about him.
  12. HardRightEdge
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    Well, we'll find out soon enough when Joe Staley fires off the line looking to bury him.

    I get the Ketchem new age stuff even if it isn't very new...we've been talking about lighter, taller DEs with length since FA started...actually, since Jenkins departed. It makes sense on the weak side. But if you put two 280 lb. DEs on the field in a 3-4 you'll get steamrolled.

    So, the comments on Sly Williams are somewhat off base. He's a guy who could hold the point of attack on the strong side while able to move inside in nickel. He was the Pickett replacement, not the Jenkins replacement. We need both.

    And that "DEs that look like OLBs and OLBs that look like DEs" thing is a little bizarre...that describes what 4-3 defenses look like. If that's what is being proposed, then it should be stated. And that takes me back to my first reaction...if we're going to keep picking 4-3 players, what will we get in trade for Matthews...he'd be wasted in a 4-3.

    We could run out a pretty impressive 4-3 D-Line of Perry and Jones at DE, Worthy (when healthy) and Raji at DT.

    Stopping guys like Kaepernick and RGIII starts with playing zone defense. A DE who runs 2/10ths faster than some other guy isn't going to make much difference, especially if he's not working off Staley's (or whoever's) block.
  13. ThxJackVainisi
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    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    You're right, we'll find out. IMO the Jones pick makes sense if he can pressure the QB in sub packages. If Williams would have been a replacement for Pickett, he'd be better at DE in base but not in the sub packages and Capers uses the sub packages more. If those who are saying Jones can add weight and strength, he may be able to succeed at DE in the base.
  14. packrulz
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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  15. HardRightEdge
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    So, there we have it. "New age" is just another name for too small/weak. And he did actually get a couple snaps at OLB. But we wouldn't ever want to predict anything, would we.
  16. 7thFloorRA
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    I thought he played well when he was given the opportunity to play. Those opportunities were quite limited though. I wish they would have give him more snaps.
  17. HardRightEdge
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    He got some snaps. He was out-physicalled. So he got fewer snaps. It's not any more complicated than that.

    He'll need to get bigger and stronger. And that's far from a given. Neal maxed himself out physically, it was not sufficient for D-Line play, so he/they took him in the other direction.

    The moral of the tale: avoid tweeners.
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  18. 7thFloorRA
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    He was still able to use his motor to get some pressure on the other team. I don't recall watching too many plays with him in where I said "thats on Datone, he really got owned there or made a mistake".
  19. packrulz
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  20. captainWIMM
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    He will be a situational player in a 3-4 defense though as he´s not big and strong enough to play the run in the base.
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  21. HardRightEdge
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    True.

    However, the thing that gets overlooked in these discussions is the fact that within the 65 - 70% of snaps where we run nickel there are a lot of tweener run/pass downs...2nd. and 8, 3rd. and 3, you name it.

    Running Jones out there for the bulk of that 65 - 70% (presumably in place of the departing Raji) as a pass rushing specialist presents a problem in stopping the run, particularly when paired with the smallish Daniels. As I'm fond of saying, the opponent is not kind enough to tell us the play in advance.

    That leaves the 30% or so of snaps that present obvious passing situations for Jones to play as a specialist. This may well be what we'll see. MM commented in the past week that he'd like to see more defensive variety, with Capers going deeper into his playbook and with more situational substitutions, something that was frustrated last season by the number of injuries according to MM.

    I doubt this is the preferred approach theoretically, but rather a concession to the talent on the roster. As recently as the 2011 draft, Capers stated his disinclination toward situational players. This should be no surprise. A purported master of disguises is not likely fond of tipping his intentions by the numbers on the jerseys.

    Getting back to Jones, he might fit neatly into a 2014 approach of heavy rotations (see Perry/Neal as well if the latter is re-signed). On the other hand, this is not what you want from 1st. round picks.
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  22. captainWIMM
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    Exactly. And that one is on TT as it was obvious when we drafted him that he wob't turn into an every down player in a 3-4.
  23. BorderRivals.com
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    Was it really that obvious? I feel like I recall hearing those in the business thinking he'd be an ideal fit for 3-4 in this new-age of football with speed at QB. And it's awfully early to call him a failure because Mike Daniels isn't a fit for the 3-4 system by measurables, but he certainly is making it work for this defense.
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  24. HardRightEdge
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    And I don't mind piling on about the Perry pick whenever anybody opens a door. ;)

    Here's a guy who packed on 15-20 lbs. for the Combine, begging to picked for 4-3 DE. He then in fact stated that preference. After that, I was certain we'd pass on him; when you take a guy with a suspect motor to start with you need to appeal to his love of the game in any way possible, not the opposite by playing him out of position.

    I'm not a TT hater; not much of an fan either. The last few drafts have not been particularly good; on the other hand we could have done worse. But the Perry pick...that is very difficult to justify.
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  25. captainWIMM
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    I think with Datone's measurements it was pretty obvious he won't be an every down player in a 3-4.

    I'm not calling him a failure yet but IMO a first-round should be more than a situational player.

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