15th overall pick

[tynimiller]

With how JSN just ran I dunno if we can pass him up at 15.

He only ran a couple things. Everyone knows he is a 4.4 type guy. If Gute wants to add a pure slot weapon and JSN is him he’s most likely gonna have to spend that first rounder…personally I don’t think he does, but that’s based more on my opinion that only Addison is truly a first round graded WR I think is where I’m washing out. VERY strong WR class though from like prospect 30-130.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He only ran a couple things. Everyone knows he is a 4.4 type guy. If Gute wants to add a pure slot weapon and JSN is him he’s most likely gonna have to spend that first rounder…personally I don’t think he does, but that’s based more on my opinion that only Addison is truly a first round graded WR I think is where I’m washing out. VERY strong WR class though from like prospect 30-130.

Except for maybe the safety position, there is a lot of depth at some of the Packers needs in this draft. Which is why I would love for the Raiders to be willing to give up their 7th pick for Rodgers. Gute could use both the 7th and 15th, to trade back, still stay in round 1 to get a decent player, but pick up more 2nd and 3rd round picks.

I about puked when I saw what is rumored to be the Bears demand in trade for their #1 pick. Gee, those last 4 wins were sooo important to the team.

"The price that I heard, from outside the top five, is your one this year, a two this year, a first in 2024 and a first in 2025," Mays said.

RUMOR: Bears' Astronomical Asking Price In No. 1 NFL Draft Pick Trade, Revealed

If a team wants to acquire the No. 1 overall pick from the Chicago Bears in the 2023 NFL Draft, they better be willing to pay.

clutchpoints.com

 

[GreenNGold_81]

He only ran a couple things. Everyone knows he is a 4.4 type guy. If Gute wants to add a pure slot weapon and JSN is him he’s most likely gonna have to spend that first rounder…personally I don’t think he does, but that’s based more on my opinion that only Addison is truly a first round graded WR I think is where I’m washing out. VERY strong WR class though from like prospect 30-130.

I think he's exactly the player we want in our offense. An underneath demon with an elite 3-cone to move the chains and then Watson to stretch the offense. If we trade Rodgers the other pick can be a safety or edge.

 

[tynimiller]

I think he's exactly the player we want in our offense. An underneath demon with an elite 3-cone to move the chains and then Watson to stretch the offense. If we trade Rodgers the other pick can be a safety or edge.

I don’t see an elite athlete safety worth a first round pick. I love Branch and hate branch in the first

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don’t see an elite athlete safety worth a first round pick. I love Branch and hate branch in the first

Agreed. I wouldn't take Branch with the 15th pick, but if Gute trades back into a late first or early second, I could see the value then.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

IMO. True, but Pitts was considered a disappointment his rookie year based on his pre-draft hype. IMO.

I don't consider any rookie who puts up more than 1,000 receiving yards a disappointment. Especially when talking about a tight end.

Right, I forgot about Pitts. Certainly it can happen for rookies, but he did that with 110 targets. For reference, Tonyan had 67 targets in our system last year. I'd hazard a guess that a rookie in our system gets far less targets.

With Tonyan getting 67 targets last season while mostly not being overly productive I truly believe an impact tight end could easily get 110 balls thrown his way.

I agree that Rodgers had some success with both Finley and Cook, but that chemistry took some time, something that if Rodgers is the QB in 2023, the offense won't really have time for. I don't particularly want to see it happen, but if Rodgers is the QB, the Packers might be better off resigning Tonyan and Lewis.

It didn't take Rodgers long to build chemistry with either Finley or Cook.

Finley had 676 receiving yards in only his second season with the team (after playing only 88 snaps on offense during his rookie campaign) while the team featured two 1,000 yards receivers in Driver and Jennings.

Cook had six receptions for 105 yards and a touchdown in only his fourth game with Rodgers. In the last six games of his only season with the team he caught a total of 31 passes for 407 yards. Those numbers would result in a 88 catch, 1,153 yards season over 17 games.

Even with Cook, who if healthy would have had 80 targets (~5 /game on av), we didn't get anywhere close to 110 targets. It's like Aaron finally realized what he had with Cook by the end of the season because he began to pepper him in the playoffs. What a shame we let that guy go.

Rodgers targeted Cook a total of 53 times over the last six games of the 2016 season. That average would result in 150 targets over 17 games.

 

[Schultz]

For a guy who (mostly correctly) points out when others cherry pick you just did some nice cherry picking with Cook.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think Cook is a good example of proving Rodgers won't throw to a TE. Overall numbers aren't there. But Remember Cook was hurt, missed much of off/preseason stuff and I think had foot surgery. Then was injured in season and hampered him in the beginning of the year and he didn't even play for a few weeks I don't think.

Then he was healthy, on the field, and very productive. Then he had his bluff called in trying to re-sign and we ended up with what's his name and what could have been a very productive and happy time turned to **** for everyone.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

With Tonyan getting 67 targets last season while mostly not being overly productive I truly believe an impact tight end could easily get 110 balls thrown his way.



It didn't take Rodgers long to build chemistry with either Finley or Cook.

Finley had 676 receiving yards in only his second season with the team (after playing only 88 snaps on offense during his rookie campaign) while the team featured two 1,000 yards receivers in Driver and Jennings.

Cook had six receptions for 105 yards and a touchdown in only his fourth game with Rodgers. In the last six games of his only season with the team he caught a total of 31 passes for 407 yards. Those numbers would result in a 88 catch, 1,153 yards season over 17 games.



Rodgers targeted Cook a total of 53 times over the last six games of the 2016 season. That average would result in 150 targets over 17 games.

The best predictor for success is opportunity.

Finley got 12 targets in his first season as a rookie. His second season he got 70. Again, this is nowhere near 110. His best season he got 92. Again, it often takes rookies YEARS to develop into a legit weapon.

Cook was a 7-year vet prior to signing with the Packers. One may be able to argue that IF we were to get Waller that he may have a similar impact. Although, I am doubtful we will. It was a tale of two seasons with Cook, he really picked up towards the end not counting the blowout loss against the Skins.

Martellus Bennett averaged 5 targets per game before getting canned. Tonyan has already been discussed - he probably deserved more targets and I doubt he's back. Jimmy Graham topped out at 90 targets.

Pitts was seen by many to be a "generational TE" and was drafted at pick 4 of the first round as a result. He's 6'6" 245 and runs a 4.40. He was heavily targeted his first year out of necessity considering their WR room and losing Ridley. Waller would be a pretty similar physical specimen, running a 4.46 with a similar build. But he's 31 in September, so I think would be a one or two-year rental at best.

 

[Todd Princl]

I don’t see an elite athlete safety worth a first round pick. I love Branch and hate branch in the first

The safeties didn’t put on a show at the combine that is for sure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

For a guy who (mostly correctly) points out when others cherry pick you just did some nice cherry picking with Cook.

I don't think so at all. You need to be aware that Cook missed six of the first nine games of his only season with the Packers because of an injury. After returning he quickly developed into a trusted target for Rodgers.

Finley got 12 targets in his first season as a rookie. His second season he got 70. Again, this is nowhere near 110.

You need to consider that the Packers had two 1,000 yard receivers in Driver and Jennings that season though. With the roster currently lacking talent at pass catchers I'm quite sure Rodgers would target a talented tight end a lot.

Tonyan has already been discussed - he probably deserved more targets and I doubt he's back.

I don't agree that Tonyan did anything justifying him being targeted more often.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I don't think so at all. You need to be aware that Cook missed six of the first nine games of his only season with the Packers because of an injury. After returning he quickly developed into a trusted target for Rodgers.



You need to consider that the Packers had two 1,000 yard receivers in Driver and Jennings that season though. With the roster currently lacking talent at pass catchers I'm quite sure Rodgers would target a talented tight end a lot.



I don't agree that Tonyan did anything justifying him being targeted more often.

Again, you can't make chicken salad with chicken ****. Tonyan against Miami, Tampa, Detroit and Tennessee averaged only 4 targets. Those were brutal defenses against the tight end and you'd think we'd take advantage of that. Nope. I'd regard Tonyan as a talented tight end who deserves more opportunity than he's had in GB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Again, you can't make chicken salad with chicken ****. Tonyan against Miami, Tampa, Detroit and Tennessee averaged only 4 targets. Those were brutal defenses against the tight end and you'd think we'd take advantage of that. Nope. I'd regard Tonyan as a talented tight end who deserves more opportunity than he's had in GB.

We just have to agree to disagree on Tonyan. If he ends up with another team we'll see if it was Rodgers inability to take advantage of a talented tight end or Tonyan lacking talent was the main reason for him not putting up impressive numbers. I know which scenario I consider more realistic.

 

[Mondio]

I've always liked Tonyan. Decent enough blocker, good hands. He can make a contested catch, he's a good teammate. But he goes down way too easily for me to think he's ever going to be a big playmaker. Unless he comes back with speed and quickness we haven't seen before. He can make the tough catch and be tackled or make the easy catch and gets tackled easily leaving a lot of yards on the field. Can be useful for certain, but not a focal piece of a high powered offense IMO. I think his knee bothered him some last year, but he wasn't really that dynamic prior either so I'm not sure how much difference to expect another year out.

 

[Sanguine camper]

We just have to agree to disagree on Tonyan. If he ends up with another team we'll see if it was Rodgers inability to take advantage of a talented tight end or Tonyan lacking talent was the main reason for him not putting up impressive numbers. I know which scenario I consider more realistic.

I think its some of both. Rodgers has often shunned the underneath stuff to go for much longer passes, even when its third and short. Last season, Tonyan appeared to have lost some quickness, perhaps due to his recovery from an ACL. Even if the Packers bring him back, they need to draft a TE in the first two rounds.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Starting to lean towards a trade back and target Darnell Washington. That guy is going to be a monster blocker (which Gute loves); I mean, he's basically a sixth olineman. In addition, his abilitity to run routes and that catch radius makes him an insane threat in the receiving game. You want a TE that will help the oline block for a young QB and help in the passing game? I don't think there's another player who combines both like Washington...there's a video out there showing his performance against the blocking sled at the combine compared against the other top TEs (including Mayer) and Washington makes everyone else look like a kicker in comparison.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think its some of both. Rodgers has often shunned the underneath stuff to go for much longer passes, even when its third and short. Last season, Tonyan appeared to have lost some quickness, perhaps due to his recovery from an ACL. Even if the Packers bring him back, they need to draft a TE in the first two rounds.

I think people also forgot that Tonyan has never been any good after the catch, he's just reliable at catching the ball and then getting knocked over as soon as a defensive player breathes on him. TD receptions are one of the least consistent stats in football and anyone who thought his 11 TD receptions in 2020 was indicative of anything that could be counted on going forward was being wildly optimistic.

 

[Magooch]

I think people also forgot that Tonyan has never been any good after the catch, he's just reliable at catching the ball and then getting knocked over as soon as a defensive player breathes on him. TD receptions are one of the least consistent stats in football and anyone who thought his 11 TD receptions in 2020 was indicative of anything that could be counted on going forward was being wildly optimistic.

I would agree with that. For some context:

2020 "Breakout" year: 4.3 yards after catch per reception. Zero broken tackles on receptions
2021: 6.1 yards after catch. Zero broken tackles
2022: 4.3 yards after catch. 2 broken tackles

Also maybe worth mentioning:
2020: 88.1% catch percentage
2021: 62.1%
2022: 79.1%

 

[Magooch]

Starting to lean towards a trade back and target Darnell Washington. That guy is going to be a monster blocker (which Gute loves); I mean, he's basically a sixth olineman. In addition, his abilitity to run routes and that catch radius makes him an insane threat in the receiving game. You want a TE that will help the oline block for a young QB and help in the passing game? I don't think there's another player who combines both like Washington...there's a video out there showing his performance against the blocking sled at the combine compared against the other top TEs (including Mayer) and Washington makes everyone else look like a kicker in comparison.

Depending on what we (potentially) Receive from the Jets I would LOVE to see us take a WR early(ish) and a guy like Washington a bit later.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Depending on what we (potentially) Receive from the Jets I would LOVE to see us take a WR early(ish) and a guy like Washington a bit later.

I've been doing a few mocks with the sight below, since they allow a Trade to take place before you start the draft. Trading Rodgers for the Jets #13 and #43, creates some really fun results. Trading back from either the #13 or #15 spot, while still keeping 2 first rounders (one late), nets you quite a productive first and second round.

2023 NFL Mock Draft Simulator | PFF

PFF’s customizable mock draft simulator gives you the opportunity to be the GM for any team in the 2023 NFL Draft. In addition to picking draft prospects, you can also offer and make trades with the simulated teams.

www.pff.com

 

[GleefulGary]

He only ran a couple things. Everyone knows he is a 4.4 type guy. If Gute wants to add a pure slot weapon and JSN is him he’s most likely gonna have to spend that first rounder…personally I don’t think he does, but that’s based more on my opinion that only Addison is truly a first round graded WR I think is where I’m washing out. VERY strong WR class though from like prospect 30-130.

If JSN was a 4.4 type guy he would’ve ran the 40.

He’s not a burner, and that’s okay.

Addison is small and slow-ish. I don’t see how one could justify him in the first round.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Starting to lean towards a trade back and target Darnell Washington. That guy is going to be a monster blocker (which Gute loves); I mean, he's basically a sixth olineman. In addition, his abilitity to run routes and that catch radius makes him an insane threat in the receiving game. You want a TE that will help the oline block for a young QB and help in the passing game? I don't think there's another player who combines both like Washington...there's a video out there showing his performance against the blocking sled at the combine compared against the other top TEs (including Mayer) and Washington makes everyone else look like a kicker in comparison.

I know this is a stacked tight end class, but I'm starting to wonder if Washington even makes it to us at 15. His combination of size and speed just aren't seen that often, he's pretty polished, and is only going to get better. The only real things you have to worry about him are injuries which you can't predict and he's had a few bad drops. However, we all know drops can be fixed. He's just a perfect fit to replace Lewis and is even more of a freak athlete than he was coming out. He'll help a young QB and the run game with his blocking. It just makes so much sense, but I'm also a Georgia homer.

The only draft rumors I've seen for us are how much we're enamored by Hyatt, but I really hope we don't take him at 15.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I know this is a stacked tight end class, but I'm starting to wonder if Washington even makes it to us at 15. His combination of size and speed just aren't seen that often, he's pretty polished, and is only going to get better. The only real things you have to worry about him are injuries which you can't predict and he's had a few bad drops. However, we all know drops can be fixed.

J'Mon Moore disagrees with your take of it being able to fix drops

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

J'Mon Moore disagrees with your take of it being able to fix drops

Davante agrees lol

You can't fix them all and it's one of the reasons I'm scared of Quentin Johnston, but Washington has made some pretty amazing catches(see combine). For that reason, I'm betting on him to succeed.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You can't fix them all and it's one of the reasons I'm scared of Quentin Johnston, but Washington has made some pretty amazing catches(see combine). For that reason, I'm betting on him to succeed.

That wasn't meant as a knock on Washington at all. According to PFF he didn't have a huge issue with drops aside of his first season in college anyway.