150 - Kingsley Keke DE

[Fat Dogs]

I agree on that there's a lot of players I would have taken at 12 before I took Gary. Really not a fan of him just don't think he's ever gonna be a star player and at 12 you want an all pro. Gary obviously could prove me wrong but I don't see all pro potential when I watch him. Also I think he's a bit redundant with what the team signed in free agency. He reminds me a bit of datone Jones let's hope he at least turns out better than that.

As for Kingsley keke I really like the pick he's a guy I think can replace mike Daniels as an inside rusher. I consistently picked him in the 5th/6th round while doing fanspeak mocks. Great pick by gute I really think keke develops into a very solid player

First I’d like to clarify that I to would have gone a different direction so my response has nothing to do with justifying Gary at #12. However, I have seen people comment about redundancy and I don’t think that makes sense. Wouldn’t you want versatile players that can play anywhere? Saying you wouldn’t want guys that have the skill set to rush from the outside yet tough enough to blitz thru the middle is like saying “don’t draft another Devante Adams because we already have a receiver that can play every position extremely well.” It Just doesn’t make sense.

 

[sschind]

First I’d like to clarify that I to would have gone a different direction so my response has nothing to do with justifying Gary at #12. However, I have seen people comment about redundancy and I don’t think that makes sense. Wouldn’t you want versatile players that can play anywhere? Saying you wouldn’t want guys that have the skill set to rush from the outside yet tough enough to blitz thru the middle is like saying “don’t draft another Devante Adams because we already have a receiver that can play every position extremely well.” It Just doesn’t make sense.

yeah it would be nice if a guy could play pretty much everywhere on the front 7 but if he is the best DE in the league I really don't care if he can't play anywhere else. I'm not saying that is the case with anyone we have just that versatility is nice but if you have a guy who is great at doing 1 or 2 things sometimes that is better than a guy who is good at doing 4 or 5 things.

 

[Fat Dogs]

yeah it would be nice if a guy could play pretty much everywhere on the front 7 but if he is the best DE in the league I really don't care if he can't play anywhere else. I'm not saying that is the case with anyone we have just that versatility is nice but if you have a guy who is great at doing 1 or 2 things sometimes that is better than a guy who is good at doing 4 or 5 things.

Good point but the same can be said the other way. I’d rather have the best in the game Aaron Donald (not a “sack specialist”) clogging the middle of my line and still leading the league in that category. I love the versatility these guys bring and I don’t think we can have enough FOOTBALL players On that side of the ball.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Good point but the same can be said the other way. I’d rather have the best in the game Aaron Donald (not a “sack specialist”) clogging the middle of my line and still leading the league in that category. I love the versatility these guys bring and I don’t think we can have enough FOOTBALL players On that side of the ball.

Well you did hear the news though right? Every other player that the Packers DIDN'T select ARE the next Aaron Donald.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Well you did hear the news though right? Every other player that the Packers DIDN'T select ARE the next Aaron Donald.

So I’ve heard...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Gary obviously could prove me wrong but I don't see all pro potential when I watch him.

There's absolutely no doubt Gary has the potential to be an All-Pro in the NFL. Unfortunately after his lack of production in college it's a huge question mark if he will ever be able to perform up to it though.

 

[gbgary]

i initially thought keke might be the odd man out on the DL, since we have so many at that position, but after reading several articles about him i've changed my mind. i think he's lock to make the team. daniels is gone after this season...maybe sooner...

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...niels-no-longer-right-fit-packers/3580870002/

 

[GleefulGary]

There's absolutely no doubt Gary has the potential to be an All-Pro in the NFL. Unfortunately after his lack of production in college it's a huge question mark if he will ever be able to perform up to it though.

Clarification here.

His production in college was quite outstanding if you bother to watch the tape. His stat sheet was not great. Most players who line up at the 6T and cover C Gap don't get great stats. Watch the tape. Watch the disruption. Watch how teams engage him. That's production.

 

[GleefulGary]

i initially thought keke might be the odd man out on the DL, since we have so many at that position, but after reading several articles about him i've changed my mind. i think he's lock to make the team. daniels is gone after this season...maybe sooner...

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...niels-no-longer-right-fit-packers/3580870002/

Why would KeKe have been odd man out? Did you hear them talk about him? He's staying.

Daniels is in his last year. He won't be back after that.

 

[Dantés]

Why would KeKe have been odd man out? Did you hear them talk about him? He's staying.

Daniels is in his last year. He won't be back after that.

Also-- why is the DL too crowded to keep everyone? Keeping 6 DL is not onerous, and there is a pretty clear group of 6 worth keeping: Clark, Daniels, Lowry, Lancaster, Adams, Keke.

 

[longtimefan]

Klark option picked up. He is here until at least 2020

 

[GleefulGary]

Also-- why is the DL too crowded to keep everyone? Keeping 6 DL is not onerous, and there is a pretty clear group of 6 worth keeping: Clark, Daniels, Lowry, Lancaster, Adams, Keke.

Battle between Fadol and Lancaster will be fun.

 

[Dantés]

Battle between Fadol and Lancaster will be fun.

Lancaster gonna win that one easily. He was really impressive last year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm excited about the DL. While I think Daniels job is safe (for now), the Packers probably feel they have to wait and see on how everyone else looks. My really liking Mike Daniels aside, I think he is a money cut if they decide that he is expendable. All about making the business work.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Klark option picked up. He is here until at least 2020

That was a foregone conclusion. Now the question will become whether he plays on that option next year or if they can scrounge up the cap to get him on a long term contract instead. 2020 would be easy with a big signing bonus in lieu of first year salary in a heavily back-loaded contract. It's what comes after that where it becomes an issue, adding yet another future cap cruncher to the 4 FAs signed this offseason to those backloaded deals. Rodgers' cap number goes up $7 mil between 2019 and 2021 which sure doesn't help.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Everybody did not want Adams cut.

I know I didn't want to see Adams cut. He played injured nearly his entire second season, often limping. It was a lost year at which point it was more reasonable to project off his rookie season which certainly said he was a keeper.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Clarification here.

His production in college was quite outstanding if you bother to watch the tape. His stat sheet was not great. Most players who line up at the 6T and cover C Gap don't get great stats. Watch the tape. Watch the disruption. Watch how teams engage him. That's production.

I know that you don't like PFF but here's their analysis on why Gary wasn't a first round talent based on a lack of production.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-why-rashan-gary-is-not-a-first-round-talent

 

[GleefulGary]

I know that you don't like PFF but here's their analysis on why Gary wasn't a first round talent based on a lack of production.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-why-rashan-gary-is-not-a-first-round-talent

And that article had a much more fair argument. Gary has to learn how to win one on ones, otherwise he won't be what he should be. His technique is a mess, I've been vocal about it. I still think they're missing the boat though.

PFF also has analysis on why Isabella is a first round WR. I really don't think their college evaluations are worth the time.

 

[Dantés]

I know that you don't like PFF but here's their analysis on why Gary wasn't a first round talent based on a lack of production.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-why-rashan-gary-is-not-a-first-round-talent

By virtue of what they do, PFF is always going to favor production over traits. As a company, they basically dismiss the entire concept of "upside." Unfortunately for them, upside exists in the draft and sometimes traits translate even if they weren't super productive in college.

Gary is interesting to me... he was one of the more polarizing figures in this class. If you imagine a continuum like this:

NFL FO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amateur Tape Watcher

It seems like the further we move to the left, the higher Gary was regarded. So you have guys like Daniel Jeremiah who have worked in NFL front offices and Pro Scouting Services that sell their reports to NFL teams who regarded him as a top ten prospect, and then as you move to the right you have more amateur services like PFF and TDN that didn't regard him as a first round talent.

I think that makes him an interesting case study moving forward.

The fact is that both sides can offer examples-- we can all point to high end talent that blossomed in the NFL despite underwhelming production in college and we can all point to high end talent that didn't produce at either level.

One thing I will add is that Brian Baldinger mentioned in a breakdown that Gary was playing through multiple issues last year in his knees and shoulders. That might help explain why he went from 12/6 TFL/sack in 2017 to 7.5/3.5 in 2018.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One thing I will add is that Brian Baldinger mentioned in a breakdown that Gary was playing through multiple issues last year in his knees and shoulders. That might help explain why he went from 12/6 TFL/sack in 2017 to 7.5/3.5 in 2018.

Not only played through injuries in 2018, but missed at least 3 full games. Would love to see his snap count in 2018 VS 2017.

Now people can take that 2 ways. Gary is injury prone and you can only grade him by what he did when playing. Or you look at the film, decide what he can do in the Packer defense, determine just how injury prone he is or isn't and then draw your conclusions.

Don't get me wrong, I love Bosa, but he wasn't selected #2 because of what he did in 2018.

 

[SoonerPack]

Well I said barring injury because Gary is at best a project and 4th in line among standup linebackers and in most Nickle situations hes going to be behind Z Smith, Clark and Daniels on the line

Gary is a project at best. He shouldnt be penciled in for anything this year. Sure the coaches might coach him up quickly but odds are it's going to take at least a year to turn him into a productive player if they're able to

This is the first time I have heard Gary referred to as a project. The guy may not have been your ideal pick but to call him a project is over the top. He has a unique, highly coveted skill set. Guys of his size and speed don't grow on trees and he seems motivated to show people he deserved to go higher. I think 5-7 sacks with some other impact plays sprinkled in is a very realistic expectation for this upcoming year. I have a feeling many of these anti-Gray comments are not going to age particularly well.

 

[gbgary]

Why would KeKe have been odd man out?

i mentioned why in my post.

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[Deleted member 6794]

PFF also has analysis on why Isabella is a first round WR. I really don't think their college evaluations are worth the time.

I don't have the time or knowledge to analyze prospects like several posters around here have and as you know by now I like an analytic approach towards football.

You might be right that PFF isn't any good evaluating college players but others, even people working in front offices, have been wrong a lot in the process as well.

Not only played through injuries in 2018, but missed at least 3 full games. Would love to see his snap count in 2018 VS 2017.

Gary played only 353 snaps in 2018 compared to 666 in '17.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Gary played only 353 snaps in 2018 compared to 666 in '17.

Thanks Captain. Think you need to change your name to "CaptainStats"

313 less snaps for Gary in 2018 explains quite a bit of the statistical drop off, then you have to wonder how many of those 353 he was playing injured.

I kind of ignored Gary pre-draft, thinking because of his position, he wouldn't even be on the Packers radar. However, the more I see/read about him and why the Packers think he will be a good fit, the more I like. Obviously, the health of any player is always a wild card, as is to some extent motivation and coachability. Harbough seemed to have nothing but positive things to say about the guy, but then again, I expect that from his former coach. So far I would say the guy has a very big upside and his only downside could be he ends up being just average. But I doubt he will end up being another Jamal Reynolds.

 

[GleefulGary]

Really the only reason I'm kind of optimistic is that he fits Pettine's defense. Often, fit can make or break a player.