why is no one afraid of the cards????

PackerFanLV

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
945
Reaction score
61
Location
las vegas
Another example of yards allowed being a terrible indicator of the performance of a team's defense.

The Cardinals defense has been outstanding for most of the season and was the only reason the game vs. the Seahawks was close after three quarters. They fell apart in the fourth but only after giving their offense several chances to keep them in the game.
exactly what i was saying hehe
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
If that's the case, then our certainly has as well.

The Cardinals defense is 4th in points allowed (allowing opponents to score over 20 points only three times) and 6th in DVOA while playing one of the toughest schedules in the league.

In addition they were able to carry a team starting Drew Stanton and Ryan Lindley for a combined nine games and one of the worst rushing offenses in the league to an 11-4 record.

The Packers defense has improved since the bye week but they're not even close to being as good as the Cards unit.
 

PackerDNA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
6,451
Reaction score
1,507
The Cardinals defense is 4th in points allowed (allowing opponents to score over 20 points only three times) and 6th in DVOA while playing one of the toughest schedules in the league.

In addition they were able to carry a team starting Drew Stanton and Ryan Lindley for a combined nine games and one of the worst rushing offenses in the league to an 11-4 record.

The Packers defense has improved since the bye week but they're not even close to being as good as the Cards unit.


Agree. Add in that the Cards lost several key starters to injury early on and they're even more impressive.
 

GoPGo

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
150
The Packers defense has improved since the bye week but they're not even close to being as good as the Cards unit.

"Not even close?" B.S. We allow fewer yards, we have more fumble recoveries, more sacks and the same ypc on the ground. We allow fewer yards in the air per attempt and we only allow 3 more points per game than they do. I'd say it is pretty damn close. As was pointed out clearly in a very well written and researched article, the Cardinals are way over on the plus side in the luck column. Most importantly, it looks like their defense has weakened in the second half of the season while ours has clearly improved quite a bit.

As to toughness of schedule, they're opponents combined for a .547 record. Ours was .504. Theirs ranks 8th and ours is 13th, so not a ton of difference there.

Lastly, since you're fond of DVOA, our overall is #4. Theirs is #22. Look at the bottom half of those rankings and only one of those teams is in the playoffs, so the luck factor is most definitely there. That tends to run out in the playoffs. So again, I'm not particularly scared of playing them at Lambeau or anywhere else.
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
"Not even close?" B.S. We allow fewer yards, we have more fumble recoveries, more sacks and the same ypc on the ground. We allow fewer yards in the air per attempt and we only allow 3 more points per game than they do. I'd say it is pretty damn close. As was pointed out clearly in a very well written and researched article, the Cardinals are way over on the plus side in the luck column. Most importantly, it looks like their defense has weakened in the second half of the season while ours has clearly improved quite a bit.

As to toughness of schedule, they're opponents combined for a .547 record. Ours was .504. Theirs ranks 8th and ours is 13th, so not a ton of difference there.

Lastly, since you're fond of DVOA, our overall is #4. Theirs is #22. Look at the bottom half of those rankings and only one of those teams is in the playoffs, so the luck factor is most definitely there. That tends to run out in the playoffs. So again, I'm not particularly scared of playing them at Lambeau or anywhere else.

I wasn't talking about them being the better team or being scared of playing them in the playoffs. The Packers are a superior team to the Cardinals because of our offense behind light years ahead of theirs.

I stand by my statement that the Cardinals defense is better than ours though (being ranked 6th in DVOA compared to the Packers at #13). If you take all circumstances under consideration their defense has played outstanding and way better than the Packers have all season.
 

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,382
Reaction score
4,105
Location
Milwaukee
If you take all circumstances under consideration their defense has played outstanding and way better than the Packers have all season.


Teams do play better at end of the season...What they did in 1st game doesnt mean how they are playing now
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Teams do play better at end of the season...What they did in 1st game doesnt mean how they are playing now

Football Outsiders weighted DVOA is adjusted so that earlier games in the season become gradually less important. It better reflects how the team was playing at the end of the season.

Arizona's defense is 7th in it while the Packers are 13th.
 

GoPGo

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
150
I wasn't talking about them being the better team or being scared of playing them in the playoffs. The Packers are a superior team to the Cardinals because of our offense behind light years ahead of theirs.

I stand by my statement that the Cardinals defense is better than ours though (being ranked 6th in DVOA compared to the Packers at #13). If you take all circumstances under consideration their defense has played outstanding and way better than the Packers have all season.

Your DVOA thing is for the entire season. I bet if you looked at the second half, I bet ours would be better. As the saying goes, "What have you done lately?" As it stands, our run defense is just as good as theirs. Our pass rush is better. And our pass defense in terms of yards is better. I know you worship at that alter of DVOA, but that isn't the end-all be-all of football either.

Adjectives such as "outstanding" and "way better" simply don't apply to a defense that has given up more yards than everyone except Oakland, Tennessee, Tampa Bay and Jacksonville. More appropriate adjectives are "fortuitous" or perhaps "serendipitous" among others.

I would bet anything you wouldn't be calling our defense outstanding if we were giving up that kind of yardage.
 
Last edited:
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
Your DVOA thing is for the entire season. I bet if you looked at the second half, I bet ours would be better. As the saying goes, "What have you done lately?" As it stands, our run defense is just as good as theirs. Our pass rush is better. And our pass defense in terms of yards is better. I know you worship at that alter of DVOA, but that isn't the end-all be-all of football either.

Adjectives such as "outstanding" and "way better" simply don't apply to a defense that has given up more yards than everyone except Oakland, Tennessee, Tampa Bay and Jacksonville. More appropriate adjectives are "fortuitous" or perhaps "serendipitous" among others.

I would bet anything you wouldn't be calling our defense outstanding if we were giving up that kind of yardage.

I posted some information about wieghted DVOA, which better reflects how teams played lately, above and the Cardinals defense is still better than the Packers´.

Once again, I don´t give a damn about yards allowed, I´m mostly interested in points against. The Cardinals rank 4th in that department with the Packers being 12th. You have to understand that a great offense is a valuable asset to a defense as well and the Packers have a far superior one than the Cardinals which makes their defense even more impressive.
 

GoPGo

Cheesehead
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
1,862
Reaction score
150
Once again, I don´t give a damn about yards allowed...

Then why did you bother to mention that the Packers were 2nd and 5th in yards in 2009 and 2010, respectively, last month if you don't give a damn about that? Do you also not give a damn about sacks, fumbles forced/recovered and yards per play?

If points is all that matters, then our defense has given up 20.45 points per game while theirs has given up 18.13 per game. The Cardinals only give up 2.32 points fewer per game than we do. That hardly qualifies as "way better." And if you're going to characterize theirs as "outstanding" then ours is at least pretty damn good.
 

Members online

Latest posts

Top