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Who Really Picked Jamal Reynolds?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TOPackerFan, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    From Cliff Christl's blog:

    "There have been so many different versions offered by people in the Packers organization and various writers about the Jamal Reynolds pick in 2001 and whether retiring general manager Ron Wolf or Mike Sherman was mostly to blame that it might be instructive to look back at a story that appeared in The Sporting News in its April 30, 2001 edition. Paul Attner, a writer for the magazine, was given access to the Packers' draft room and wrote a first-hand account. It was emailed to me by one of our readers, Kevin Minshell, after I had recently written a column about how the 2001 draft was still haunting the Packers, more so than any other. What's interesting in Attner's account is that no mention is made of defensive tackle Marcus Stroud, who would have been an ideal pick there, and that the Packers' top two targets in the first round, Reynolds and Koren Robinson, both have been busts to this point.

    Here's what Attner wrote:

    "Wolf and Sherman were pretty confident that their first-round target - pass-rushing end Jamal Reynolds of Florida State - would still be around when they picked 10th in the first round. But that meant they needed to fix their other major need, receiver, in the second. And they were convinced that Robert Ferguson of Texas A&M would be gone by their present turn in that round. A trade with (Bill) Walsh would move them up six spots in the second, from 16 to 10, and from 18 to 9 in the third, and add a high fourth, where they currently had no choice. It meant giving up one of their three third-round picks in what became a five-for-three transaction. But Wolf knew Sherman, who was having trouble sleeping, would be buoyed by the positives of the deal.

    "So four phone calls later, Walsh and Wolf agreed to agree. 'This could do it,' Sherman said to Wolf. Later that night at dinner, Wolf reviewed the 88th trade of his 10 years in Green Bay. 'In order for this to work, we've got to have both Reynolds and Ferguson,' he said. 'Otherwise, this might become the dumbest trade of my career. I could look like an idiot.'

    "That would be a helluva way to go into retirement.

    "In March, the Packers sent reserve quarterback Matt Hasselbeck to Seattle for an exchange of first-round choices and one of the Seahawks' third picks. The deal moved the Packers into the 10th spot of the opening round, assuring them of landing an impact player, a key aim of their draft strategy. The Seahawks dealt exclusively with Sherman, who would then talk to Wolf. The two men chuckled about how quickly things were changing.

    "Now the 49ers deal has bolstered their spirits, and Wolf enters Saturday in a chipper mood. He had slept well the night before, and walked for an hour earlier in the morning. The draft room itself seems normal; it is filled with scouts, coaches, team executives and some members of the club's Executive Committee. Wolf thrives best in a casual atmosphere, with people moving in and out of the room, where he can joke and keep up a constant banter.

    "As their first selection draws near, the room becomes quiet. The previous day, Wolf and Sherman had discussed strategy for three hours. Sherman had brought a laminated sheet, filled with 13 possible scenarios the Packers could face when their pick arrived. He had already checked off who he would select in each case. Now he wanted Wolfs thinking. They agreed every time. They expected either Reynolds or receiver Koren Robinson to be available. If both were there, they would go with Reynolds because they needed defensive linemen. If neither was around, they would go with defensive end Andre Carter, then linebacker Dan Morgan. No arguments allowed in Wolf's draft room, not when all the decisionmaking is already final.

    "'Anyone nervous?' Wolf says after the fifth pick. 'I'm getting nervous. Isn't this exciting?' Gradually, a knot is growing in his stomach, just as it had done in 38 previous years. The knot increases when the 49ers trade with Seattle to get the draft's seventh pick. San Francisco needs a defensive lineman; maybe that means Reynolds. Instead, the 49ers go with Carter. When the Bears choose receiver David Terrell at eight, Wolf is ecstatic. 'We got one,' he says. Reynolds and Robinson are still on the board.

    "The Seahawks, picking next, select Robinson. The Packers already are calling Reynolds. 'We are considering taking you as our first pick; do you think it is a good one?' Sherman says to him. Reynolds tells him yes. 'I thought so,' says Sherman. Laughter fills the draft room.

    "Wolf jokingly asks Reggie McKenzie, his director of pro personnel, if Reynolds has two arms and two legs. McKenzie, straight-faced, assures him he does. He soon tells scouting coordinator Danny Mock to give Reynolds' name to the Packers' draft liaison in New York.

    "When (Paul) Tagliabue makes the announcement, everyone in the room breaks into sustained applause. Wolf smiles.

    "Before the second-round pick, Edie sits with him in the draft room. They usually eat dinner together at the end of the draft, as they will do this year, but she double dips with a first-day session. It is a family affair; son Eliot, a college freshman and aspiring general manager, places names on the team-by-team draft board. Edie brings him good luck. Ferguson is still available when the Packers' turn comes. Sherman and Wolf nod at each other. Wolf isn't an idiot after all.

    "Sherman, just two years removed from being an assistant coach, has spent the past seven weeks getting a crash course in drafting from Wolf. Sherman would make notes and then enter them in a journal. 'Wolfisms,' he calls them. 'What better resource can I ask for than to have this man?' he says. 'He has developed a Packer Way. We grind out the draft, evaluating and then reevaluating. And he involves everyone, coaches and scouts. We'd like to keep the model going.' Wolf will be a consultant for three years; Sherman says he will call on him often.

    "'It is amazing when it works, isn't it?' says Wolf after the first day. He's convinced Reynolds will be an immediate starter; Ferguson also should be one within a season. They later grab two project-type players in the third round, cornerback Bhawoh Jue and linebacker Torrance Marshall, then begin the second day by selecting guard Bill Ferrario of Wisconsin in the fourth. Wolf spends Sunday morning fretting that he should have chosen Ferrario in the third, so he is relieved that he is still available. To take his mind off things, he sits in his office and watches a car race.

    "At 2:12 p.m. Central time, the Packers' last selection of the draft, in the sixth round, is announced. It is a classic scouting pick-a sleeper, David Martin of Tennessee, a wide receiver Wolf believes can make it as a right end. 'He's one of those players you want because you want to show you can project someone's talent that others might miss,' says Wolf. Before the announcement is made in New York, the Packers' draft room fills in anticipation of the moment. Sustained cheers greet the choice of Martin, the final pick of Wolf's decade in Green Bay. The previous day, all the scouts and personnel staff had posed for group and individual pictures with him. Now someone yells, 'Speech, speech.'"
     
  2. PackerLegend

    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    So much for not wanting to look like an idoit. Not only did they mess up on a first round pick but the 2nd round as well picking Ferg over Chambers. And we also wasted 2 3rd round picks and a 4th. The only person who we got is David Martin in the 6th round and he is playing much better the Bubba.
     
  3. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    That sure was one of the worst drafts in recent memory, regardless of who made the picks.
     
  4. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    The story goes Mike Sherman loved Robert Ferguson and was high on Jamal Reynolds. That's what they say though. Not sure how much you can take. Havel has said it on the radio all the time. It does make sense as Sherman did put a lot of faith in Ferguson by giving him a lot of money before he's even done anything. If I had to take a guess I would say Sherman had the most influence in taking Ferguson and Wolf wanted Reynolds.
     
  5. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    It just goes to show you that when you get stuck on someone you often times don't see what they can't do. Reynalds was a speed rusher with zero ability to stop the run and he only had one move on his speed rush. Ferguson was simply overrated from the "get go". Sherm coached at Texas AM and liked his personality, his make up, if you will. What Sherm didn't realize is that the kid couldn't get seperation and didn't catch the ball very well. He was right on, on his make up, but missed completely on his football skills.

    I always thought that one of Wolfs biggest problems in his early round drafts is that he wanted to hit on someone rather than making the best pick. He was hoping Reynalds would be a superstar, but most football people realized with that body he wouldn't be. Wolf's late round picks were always good because he could safely pick a diamond in the rough in the late rounds.
     
  6. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    I Love this kind of thread. It is a thought making thread.

    Great thread. Thank's T.O. for posting this.

    They way I look at it is this....

    W's picks. Sherman's picks, T.T.'s Picks... All of those men do not really go out and scout. They have scouts and people at the combine who are giving them feed back, and the value of that feedback is going to make a huge difference on how a draft will pan out 3 years from the draft.

    So heretofore, perhaps we all should not judge a GM by who he drafted. but on how good his advisors and scouts were. It is always about who you hire.

    Instead of going after and spending big money on free agents in the off season, perhaps we should go after and spend money on the Best Scouts, assistant coaches, and draft proven evaluators.

    Let's go after, sign, and spend some monies on going after the people who are scouting talent for the Patriots.

    They, those under appreciated in the field evaluators of talent are so important to the value of a G.M's pick on draft day.


    R.P.
     
  7. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Fascinating article. Clearly it was Ron Wolf who was responsible for these picks, although Sherman agreed with them. What a disastrous draft that was. It brought back bad memories, hearing long-forgotten names like Bill Ferrrario, Bahwoh Jue, and Torrance Marshall. They were taking "project-type players" in the third round, for crying out loud. What a waste.
     
  8. Yared-Yam

    Yared-Yam Cheesehead

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    Wolf was on his last "hurrah" so he was obviously smashed during the entire drafting process. Sherman had to take the reigns and with the first pick drove the sleigh straight into a brick wall. Nice job Mike. Ron couldn't help himself. He's just a drunk old man.
     
  9. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    RP, YY is just joking, he is that type of guy. Funny guy.

    Also, looking back at the 2003 and 2004 drafts, they are nothing to write home about either.

    03 produced only one starter: Nick Barnett.
    04 has produced two starters: Scott Wells and Corey Williams (although the latter may be starting by default as opposed to winning a spot, and has been injury prone).

    The 01 draft wasn't the only reason why the Packers basically had no core talent. It played a part, but so did the drafts of 03 and 04. When you only produce 4 players that are contibuting to your team 3-4 years after the draft, you know there was a huge mistake somewhere.

    IMO, the 04 draft will hurt the most. Loosing out on all of your top picks, and hitting on your two lowest is disaster. I'd still rank the 04 draft as the biggest reason the Packers are where they are.
     
  10. wpr

    wpr Cheesehead

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    Good job RP. I too have thought that the team begins and ends withthe scouts and player evaluators. No matter what sport it is.
    Spending a few extra bucks on the scouting system can save a team huge bucks in the long run. The team can plug in fresh young talent into their program for a lot less money instead of paying the veterans who are looking for the big pay day when its time to renew their contract .
     
  11. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I agree with you on that. If anything this Draft would of been the one that possibly helped us beat Philly in the playoffs. Right now it would be nice but it's not the only reason why we're bad. I look at 04 and I believe after 3 seasons nobody is left from the roster from that draft. That's pretty sad. The others played their part as well but to single out this Draft and not 04 is logically wrong.
     
  12. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    The real crime about '01 is who was on the board when we made those awful picks.

    From the jsonline, October 31, 2006:

    "With Brett Favre playing well and within himself, and Ahman Green running more and more like the Ahman Green of old, it's tempting to play the what-if game.

    What if the Packers had been able to keep Javon Walker happy and hadn't traded him during the off-season? Would they be as good as they were in 2004 before he got hurt and they were reigning division champs?

    Maybe the Packers still wouldn't be as good as Chicago, but that's not a far-fetched question. Walker would make this offense all the more potent. But, then again, if the Packers hadn't traded Walker, they might not have some of the same draft picks and maybe the offensive line wouldn't be where it is in its development. Even if they'd be better off with Walker that raises too many other what-ifs.

    So let the game move on.

    What if the Packers hadn't squandered an inordinate number of draft picks from 2001 to 2004 and had more three- to six-year veterans, players who should be nearing or at the top of their games, filling key roles?

    Those four drafts yielded just five players who are contributing: tight end David Martin (2001), defensive end Aaron Kampman ('02), linebacker Nick Barnett ('03), defensive tackle Corey Williams ('04) and center Scott Wells ('04). Kampman and Barnett are probably playing as well as anybody on defense. But the Packers would be better off if they were in a supporting role, not a lead role.

    So where did they miss out?

    It would seem rather obvious that the first place to look would be the 2004 draft, Mike Sherman's disaster; the draft that yielded Ahmad Carroll in the first round; and Joey Thomas, Donnell Washington and B.J. Sander in the third round.

    But here's why it's best to be wary of off-the-cuff criticisms. No question, it was a terrible draft. But the Packers didn't miss out on a lot of good players, either, at least not in the neighborhood where they drafted.

    The two players chosen directly after Carroll in the first round were running back Chris Perry and linebacker Jason Babin, and neither one is a starter or probably any more advanced than Carroll at this point.

    Carolina drafted another cornerback Chris Gamble next. Gamble is a solid starter. He would have been a better choice than Carroll, but he has had his ups and downs, as well, and probably is no better than either of the Packers' starting cornerbacks.

    There were three more players taken over the final four picks who are starting for other teams, but, again, probably aren't any better than what the Packers have starting at those positions. Those players are wide receiver Michael Jenkins with Atlanta, running back Kevin Jones with Detroit and tight end Ben Watson with New England. The one exception might be Watson, who could be a standout in the making.

    The other choice at the end of the round was wide receiver Rashaun Woods by San Francisco, and he's no longer in the league.

    Eleven of the first 14 picks in the second round also are starters this season. And the Packers could use some of them.

    Chris Snee appears to be emerging as a Pro Bowl guard for the New York Giants and would provide the Packers with more experience and strength at that position. Jacksonville's Daryl Smith probably would be a starter for them at strong-side linebacker. If the Packers had drafted running back Julius Jones before Dallas, they probably would have said good-bye to Green by now. And safety Bob Sanders, taken 19 spots after Carroll by Indianapolis, would be a substantial upgrade over Marquand Manuel. Center Jake Grove, drafted by Oakland with the 13th pick of the second round, is another solid starter, but in the same class as Wells.

    Of the final 17 players drafted in the second round, the one who probably would fill a need for the Packers better than any other would be San Francisco cornerback Shawntae Spencer. And he'd be a nickel back.

    Of the 33 draft picks in the third round that year, 16 have been starters. But other than Arizona defensive tackle Darnell Dockett, a Cullen Jenkins type; Washington's productive H-back Chris Cooley, who would be a nice fit in Coach Mike McCarthy's multiple tight end offense; and Carolina tackle Travelle Wharton, who'd be a solid backup to Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher, the Packers wouldn't have had much of a need for any of them.

    While the Packers blew all three of their third-round picks, they weren't the only ones making mistakes. In all, 12 of the 33 choices are either out of the league or have been waived by their original teams.

    The steal of that draft was defensive end Jared Allen, taken by Kansas City with the 30th choice of the fourth round. He's already close to being a top 10 player at that position. The Packers liked him that year, had him ranked about where he was drafted, but Sherman traded away two fourth-round choices.

    Two other fourth-round picks, linebacker Shaun Phillips of San Diego and cornerback Nathan Vasher of Chicago, would help the current Packers as situational players, if not starters.

    In a nutshell, if the Packers had taken someone like Snee instead of Carroll; and say a Cooley and Allen as two of their third-round picks, they'd be a better team. But a threat to win the Super Bowl? Probably not.

    It just wasn't that good a draft after the top 20 picks or so.

    But, now, let's look at 2001.

    That was the year the Packers owned the 10th choice and selected defensive end Jamal Reynolds, then followed that by taking wide receiver Robert Ferguson in the second round, and defensive back Bhawoh Jue and linebacker Torrence Marshall in the third round.

    It was former general manager Ron Wolf's last draft. And there has been considerable debate about whether he was at fault or Sherman, his appointed successor, for the first two picks. Sherman had considerable influence. But it was still Wolf's call and he also liked the players who were taken.

    In the bigger picture, it's inconsequential. Say Wolf had insisted on taking linebacker Dan Morgan over Reynolds, which he later said would have been his preference. And say he had chosen Wisconsin receiver Chris Chambers over Ferguson.

    Morgan is a good player, but he has never played an entire season. When this season ends, he will have missed 40 of 96 games with injuries. That means if the Packers had drafted him, they would have had to line up with their backup middle linebacker in better than 40% of the games the last six seasons.

    They're better off with Barnett,

    Chambers is a better receiver than Ferguson, but not a difference-maker.

    Still, that was a draft where the Packers should have cashed it in big. That was a draft where they had a chance to land players who might have been the foundation for several more Super Bowl runs.

    Three slots after the Packers took Reynolds, Jacksonville landed defensive tackle Marcus Stroud, who also had ranked high on the Packers' board. He's one of the top five defensive tackles in the game, a complete player and a three-time Pro Bowl choice in his first five years.

    In the second round, three choices after Ferguson went, Carolina drafted defensive tackle Kris Jenkins. Later in the second round, Detroit picked defensive tackle Shaun Rogers.

    Jenkins had emerged as perhaps the best defensive tackle in the game before injuries cut short his last two seasons. He's back and maybe not as disruptive as he was, but he's getting close to being a top five defensive tackle again. Rogers might have been playing better than any defensive tackle in the NFC when he was recently suspended for violation of the league's drug policy.

    Back in 2001, the Packers' projected starters at defensive tackle were Santana Dotson, 32 and coming off a serious quadriceps injury; and Russell Maryland, a 32-year old stopgap.

    They had a need there and it was the strongest position of the draft. Pittsburgh's Casey Hampton, one of the game's premier nose tackles, was another player available. He was taken nine picks after Reynolds.

    Had the Packers allowed the strength of the draft to dictate their picks, never a bad approach, they could have had Stroud and Jenkins, or Stroud and Rogers, in the first two rounds. There also was a pretty good receiver sitting there in the third round when the Packers chose Jue and Marshall with back-to-back picks. Carolina took Steve Smith, one of the most explosive players in the game, two choices later.

    Put Stroud and Jenkins or Stroud and Rogers in the middle of the Packers' lineup and nobody in the league might have a better defense, the Bears included. Give the Packers Smith, as well, and there's a good chance they'd be the team to beat heading into Super Bowl XLI."
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I understand what this guy is trying to say but, he is saying that we wouldnt really be better off? We spent how many more years trying to recover from those drafts?

    Say the Pack did draft a Chambers, and a Stroud ( or whom ever) those are 2 spots the Pack would NOT HAVE to worry aobut finding a replacment..

    How many d-line man have they drafted since then or singed in f.a.?

    I dont care what anyone says if we had legit starters from those drafts we would NOT be in the spot we are in now..
     
  14. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    I think you misread the article. He's saying that the chance we had to make some noise was in 2001 and we blew it by taking Reynolds over Stroud, Ferguson over Jenkins or Rogers and Jue and Marshall over Steve Smith. I think the point about 2004 was that it simply wasn't a very good draft (at least where we were picking) i.e. there weren't legit starters available in 2004, when we were on the clock.
     
  15. GakkofNorway

    GakkofNorway Cheesehead

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    sunk costs, forget about it.
     
  16. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    It's poorly written. I'm sorry but the first article posted was good and gave a good message which is Wolf made the picks but Sherman was just as much for them making if a jointed effort which I think most thought all along.

    The above article though has no idea what the Draft Board looked like. It's basing it off the players taken just after GB weren't very good outside of Chris Gamble. There are guys projected high every year that fall to round 2 and sometimes 3 so assuming our Draft Board consisted of Chris Gamble, Ahmad Carroll, and Chris Perry is nothing more than speculation and a lot of assuming. For all we know we could of had someone like Chris Snee rated fairly high. Farther more GB missed out on Chris Gamble and had we drafted him the need to sign Charles Woodson probably wouldn't of been there.

    Even if you want to speculate to say the talent of the draft is sub par is just wrong. Every draft has it core of great players and this draft is no different.

    The list of guys early round 2 isn't that bad. Karlos Dansby, Chris Snee, Ben Troupe, Bob Sanders, Tatum Bell, Julius Jones, Jake Grove, Micahel Boulware, Shawnte Spencer, Dontarrious Thomas, Ricardo Colclough.

    Those are some rather early round 2 picks as well.

    Darnell Dockett started off round 3 that year and he just signed an extension in Arizona and has been a solid starter.

    Right between Joey Thomas and Donell Washington was Randy Starks DT from Maryland who has done a fairly nice job for the Titans and would probably be a starter right now on this team.

    Then beween Washington and Sander was Benard Berrien and Chris Cooley. Considering we traded up for Sander.

    We also could received our future QB in Matt Schaub but passed on him for B.J Sander.

    Again speculation on my part but if the author of that article wants to speculate and send a message that there weren’t really any good players so what could of we done then I’m going to send the message that there were plenty of players and Green Bay had many options from trading down or taking a different player. Keep in mind we could of always traded up. We did for a punter.
     
  17. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    Bill Ferrario, the last OG drafted before William Whitticker.

    If Jue had worked out then a player other than Carroll might have been drafted.

    Had Marshall worked out a player other than Barnett would have been drafted Hodge would be his replacement.

    Bad drafts have serious consequences in the future.
     
  18. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    I hate looking at past mistakes. I hope people have learned from them but who still is around?
     
  19. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    Thanks for the heartburn, guys. That 2001 draft was a disaster with 2004 a bad followup. That's why I am optimistic about TT. There's no way he can or will duplicate those brain f****! A combination of Sherman & Wolf is a tsunami of blunders. For the good of the Texans, I hope MS isn't allowed anywhere near draft headquarters. He will have the ghost of BJ Sander draped around his neck forever.
     
  20. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I think Wolf got a little cocky toward the end, and was too confident in his ability to make unconventional picks that would turn out better than the obvious ones--which most of them didn't.

    As for Sherman, Chris Havel recently noted that Sherman did not allow scouts in the draft room. That's a reflection of his heavily top-down management style that some former assistant coaches (including Jagodzinksi) complained about after they got fired. I think that style could work for someone who has a really brilliant football mind, but Sherman was not in that category, and he probably should've listened to his inferiors a little more closely.
     
  21. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    So he didn't let scouts in the draft room but he let Chris Havel in there (which, by the way, is the only way Havel's statement would have any credibility). Sorry, but I don't buy it.
     
  22. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Porky88, I think that you have to know about Christl's perspective on the draft. He subscribes to the "playmakers" theory. I think that Christl's point re 2004 was that while there were decent players available, there were no special players available, whereas in 2001, there were true "playmakers" i.e. game changers on the board that we missed on. 2001 was a draft where we could have really got a few of those special players that really make the difference between the top teams and everyone else (and they didn't all go in the top 5).
     
  23. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    In response to the post above. Havel has a lot of creditability considering he asked some of the Packers scouts themselves and they confirmed it for him. I believe an article was written a while back. It's actually well known that this is what happened. I even think Sherman had said something about while he was the current GM.

    The guys I listed aren't playmakers though? Ben Watson, Karlos Dansby, Bob Sanders (would be real nice right now) Chris Gamble, Julius Jones, and Kevin Jones. All those guys have been playmakers on their teams and in 3 players case (Watson, Jones, and Jones) this is the year they're stepping up big.

    Also consider where we drafted. When you pick #10 your options are always going to be better than the players in the 20's. With that said there is no excuse for having more than 2/3's of your players drafted out of the NFL before their 5th year. The 2001 Draft was awful, yes but the Drafts before that were great. Wolf was brilliant and had one bad Draft. That happens to the best of them and more often than most would expect. He won't be remembered for that though. He'll be remembered for the Super Bowl years and those Drafts. Had Ferguson and Reynolds been the players Wolf and Sherman had thought then I think it would of reflected on the 2003 and 2004 playoff teams and I think GB could of won a Super Bowl in 03 to be honest. The fact is they didn't but it's not as big as a lost as the 2004 Draft. This would be the 3rd season for most of those guys which is usually a lot of players breakout years. This is when we should be fielding the players from the 2004 Draft and before. Pretty much yes we should be fielding the players from that Mike Sherman Drafted. The 66% that are at home watching TV or reading this post as you are should be getting ready for the Vikings on Sunday. There not on the team obviously and because of that it's forcing a lot of younger players into roles early on and is why this team right now is very young and learning week by week.

    Had those players paned out. Had even half of the 66% (By the way that is the accurate percent of Sherman's picks who are not in the NFL) panned out this team would be far more experience and much better. Look at the guys Sherman did hit on. Corey Williams, David Martin, Scott Wells, and Nick Barnett. All 4 are really coming along nicely and especially this season. Though I‘m hesitant to give a vote of confidence to Martin but for the discussion I will.. This was supposed to be the year where those 4 and at least 6 others were really coming into a zone. Instead it's just the 4 mentioned and this team is paying the price.

    The current state of the team has to do more so with the 03 and 04 Drafts under Sherman. The 4th and 26 team could probably of used those guys in 01 and 02 to come up big. Especially Jamal Reynolds pressure McNabb. Never happened. So I wouldn't blame the 01 Draft for the current State of the team. It's played it's part but not as much as the 3 Drafts right after that. I would blame it for not doing exactly what Ron Wolf and Mike Sherman had thought. Putting Green Bay over the hump and giving them a Super Bowl team. The current state of the team can be blamed on those other Draft because if Mike Sherman hits on most of his picks the 01 Draft is a distant memory and Sherman is still the man running things in GB. Shame it didn't happen because I strongly think Green Bay wins a Super Bowl but because of it GB is really starting from scratch or at least that's the plan. Boy this was longer than I thought. :) That’s more so my response to Christl’s article and not so much you but I hope you get the point I'm trying to make.
     
  24. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    I get the point you're trying to make, but those guys you listed are good not special. They're not in the same league as Marcus Stroud, Shaun Rogers, Kris Jenkins or Steve Smith. 2001 was the year to get some of those guys outside the top 10 overall in the draft and we didn't do it. Dansby, Gamble, Watson would be upgrades over some of our players, but we wouldn't be a Super Bowl team with them. We would, however, be one with Stroud, Jenkins and Smith. 2001 was one of those rare years to get stars outside the top 10 overall and we blew it.
     
  25. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    You can say 29 other teams blew it as well. Smith I believe was a 3rd round pick. Maybe later 2nd. I'm not 100% sure off the top of my head. More than just the Pack passed on him. Same with Jenkins. I believe he wasn't a 1st rounder either. Rogers fell to round 2 or 3 I believe as well because he was in a wheelchair come combine time. Stroud would of been a great pick at #10 and one that would of made a lot of sense.

    So I'm not denying GB missed those players but other teams missed them as well. This team isn't in the shape it is because of that draft like the article seems to be implying. It's in the shape because of a course of many Drafts and that one included.

    The arguement the article is trying to make can be made for 31 other teams every single year. The closes thing to being the peferct drafter in this decade has been the New England Patriots. Outside of that every team has had it's fair share of mistakes. The difference between the good teams and the bad teams right now is the good teams have had some good Drafts in the span of 01-04 as well. The bad ones have not and because of that your seeing new front offices there. When you look at it in that span Green Bay has had 4 good picks. Kampman, Wells, Martin, and Williams. That makes a bad team.
     

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