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Where the packers draft from

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  2. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    How many owners/GMs/head coaches in 1970 are still owners or in the same job today? I believe the answer is "none" other than the owners of the Green Bay Packers.

    The point being, the analysis would be more relevant if the stats were limited to more recent years; a preference would be a function of the pickers not the "franchise". That said, it would appear TT has a spot in his heart for California colleges, particularly USC.

    The older stats likely skew a bit toward geographies closest to the franchise...going back a few decades, it was not uncommon for teams to lean toward the "local hero" and guys who could be easily scouted within driving distance for mid-to-low round picks. With the scouting consortiums, starting in the late '70s (e.g., BLESTO) and then the Combine itself, not to mention the availability of tape from far and wide and its ease of use with technological advancement, the geographic bias is largely a thing of the past.
     
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  3. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Exactly my thoughts. This would be more appropriate if it were GM specific.

    It's also worth noting that the scouts making up an organization can make a difference too. If Scout A is known to be a much better judge of NFL success, a team may go with Scout A's recommendations over Scout B's recommendations. That could lead the a flawed conclusion that the team or GM likes a school, when in fact they just prefer a certain scout's judge of character
     
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  4. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    GO TROJANS!!!!!
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I honestly have no idea how long our scouts have been with us. I know some stay with teams for decades.
     
  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Owners? More than just 1 thats for sure. Ralph Wilson. Bill Ford. Bud Adams. After that you have teams that have been owned by the same family for a very long time. Irsay. Halas. Brown. Hunt. Mara. Davis (You have 1 draft without AL I believe). Rooney.
     
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I stand corrected...sort of. In my mind, "family" doesn't count. An aged owner may have his name on the masthead in some emeritus position, but that does not mean he's making any personnel decisions. Ford, Mara, Hunt, Rooney, Halas, Irsay, Brown, Davis...most of the guys we associated with those names in 1970 are dead (some long gone) or already succeeded in decision-making. Assuming successors view the draft in the same way, being the son or otherwise, counts for little. For example, connecting drafts under Virginia McCaskey, her clown of a son, or his successor to the drafts under George Halas is pointless.

    That leaves Wilson (age 95) and Adams (age 90). I'll give you those two...maybe. Living in Buffalo this past year, I can say with some confidence Ralph Wilson has no engagement in the draft...the closest he might come to a personnel decision is a yea/nay on a big contract a la Mario Williams. He pretty much confines himself to matters like getting money to rehab the stadium.

    So, Adams seems to talk from time-to-time like he's still involved in some football operations matters, but who knows if he actually looks at any college tape.
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    What about Ford?

    Al Davis didn't run one draft since the study and I doubt anyone was more hands on than him so I would count him as well.
     
  9. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    From the Packers website here’s the list of the Player Personnel department. After the names the number of years each has been with the Packers (not in the NFL) including this year but not counting internships.
    Of course the Packers recently lost long-time personnel guys, John Dorsey, Reggie McKenzie, and Shaun Herock.
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Bill Ford, Sr. is 88 years old and holds only the Chairman title, appropriate since he is still the owner on paper. He falls in the figurehead category. Bill Ford, Jr. is the Vice-Chairman and he runs the show. Heck, Millen was CEO when he was screwing the pooch...he was calling all of the football operation shots and then some. Then it was Jr. who overruled the old man and got Millen fired, to the benefit of the organization. Sr. has been a figurehead for some years now.

    Nonetheless, Davis is dead now, though from the standpoint of the study the Raiders might be the only team worth looking at going back to 1970.

    Adams still holds CEO and President titles which suggests he is still active in managing the franchise...he's the only guy left who may...and that's a "may"...make football operations decisions from time-to-time, but he's likely quite a few years removed from deciding who should be graded 2nd. round on the draft board.

    I must say, reviewing this matter gives me no pleasure. I'm old enough to remember these guys when they were in their prime.
     
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Hey you made the assertion that no team besides the packers has had the same owner, changing your parameters after the fact doesn't change that some teams have had the same owners and others have kept it in the family (stability).
     
  12. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Like I said..."I stand corrected...sort of." I would not have said "sort of" had you not dragged in all the dead guys as a counter argument. George Halas has been dead for 30 years, for criminy's sake.

    You persist in making the assertion, evidently, that the son follows the father down to his preference in college programs, without support and with no reason to believe he would. Sons and daughters are not their dead fathers.

    Like I said, technically speaking, you are correct on Wilson, Adams and Ford Sr. From the point of view of the study, Davis is likely the only one that matters.

    Many of those "family" franchises you listed show no continuity in the football operation...it's just a name passed from one guy to the next...with a lot of bad football thrown into the bargain.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Yes, you'd have to think an area scout with some tenure and a good track record would get more recommendations onto the draft board particularly in the lower rounds.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    You said only the packers. That is not "sort of" untrue. It's completely untrue. No matter the number.
     
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The "sort of" derives from the fact that I could not stand myself corrected in an unqualified way when your post was full of inaccuracies.

    Other than that, have it your way.
     
  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    "Full of inaccuracies"?!?

    Those teams were not owned by those families? Those people don't own those teams?

    Keep digging. You might hit china.
     
  17. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Or you couldn't stand someone correcting you.

    Nothing wrong with being corrected, think of it as you learned something today.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Dead guys are not owners. Consequently, they don't draft. Keep digging yourself.

    If I wanted to get all nit-picky about it, I wouldn't even grant you Davis, because technically he was dead for a year. Yet, I accepted your point. And still, you persist with the "family" thing rather than concede the point that you're wrong.
     
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  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    "Sort of" is more than you get from 98% of the posters. There have been unqualified "stands corrected" from me on other matters when warranted. In fact, as a % of posts, "stands corrected" from me is higher than from nearly any other poster, including you, even though your insistence in pushing the "family" idea clearly holds no water.
     
  20. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I don't know why it is, but John Schnieder is often overlooked when citing front office losses.

    He was a scout for the Packers for 7 years before moving on to Seattle to work for TT in 2000. Schneider eventually came back to GB rising to Director of Football Operations under TT. In 2010, he went on to Seattle to become GM, though it would appear he might report to Carrol. Nonetheless, Seattle has drafted very well under Carrol/Schneider or Schneider/Carrol, and has done well in FA. At the same time, our drafting in the upper rounds has been somewhat mixed and FA activity has been nil.
     
  21. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    He's often overlooked BY ME!!! Thanks for that reminder, I think it's "only" the second or third time you've reminded me. I swear while I was typing that last sentence I was thinking 'I am forgetting someone' and sure enough...
     
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  22. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Which all goes to my original point, that it's not just the owners or even the GMs that are really driving these decisions. They give the final okey dokey but these long-time guys in the personnel department have huge impacts on who teams draft. Schneider and others are great examples. Then again, what has been quite understated is the dramatic rise of Eliot Wolf, Ron's prodigal son. It feels like I'm watching a red pine seedling grow out of a forest fire. The blood line lives on in Packer lore
     

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