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When Posters Insist on Disregarding 2010 When Analyzing TT...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Jan 22, 2014.

  1. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    So you were just attacking the guys who liked Ogsponge´s post, that makes much more sense to me. :rolleyes:
     
  2. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    It seems like Capers will be back for at least another year, and I don´t lose any sleep over that either. I still remember that article by Tom Silverstein about the troubles rookies have in Capers system, and I think that doesn´t work well with Thompson´s strategy. But I hope TT will bring in more talent on defense and because of that Capers system will be able to work better.
     
  3. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    I wasn't attacking anyone. Does it really sound like it? Again, I was only explaining my position. Ogsponge's post starts with the idea that posters give TT 'a free pass'. An idea that is completely wrong. I posted what I thought was common ground. My post was actually meant to be friendly.
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Well, seems like I completely misunderstood it then.

    I do think though there are some posters on this board that get overly defensive of TT if someone comes up with constructive criticism of him.
     
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  5. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    This is actually presented with some decent reasoning. It sure beats 'TT is so damn cheap and an ego maniac that he won't bring in FAs. SF beat us and they have FAs therefore we have to sign FAs to win. The 'TT can do no wrong crowd' just refuses to stop living in the past!'

    Here is why it still isn't a great idea, if it takes rookies longer to get up to speed in the Caper system, so what? The idea of the team building strategy is for players to be drafted and developed. The development still requires them a few years. What is the difference if they sit in on our bench learning the system or they learn something similar on another team? The advantage to fewer FAs is that your team saves cap space. This allows you to extend your stars and maintain your success.

    The trouble is, in my opinion, that right after the Packers shifted to a 3-4 several other teams did as well. A 3-4 OLB is a 'tweener' in a 4-3 and has less value. In that sense, we were able to get players like Matthews late in the first because he wasn't valued as much by other teams. Look at the Pittsburgh defense. For years they had great LBs because they could draft a great player later in the draft. With other teams shifting to 3-4s, the demand on the OLBs increased and it was more 'draft pick costly' to stock the roster. Couple that with the loss of a few players to injury and we have struggled. That is just bad luck.
     
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  6. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    I know, there are a few in my 'ilk' as well.

    :D
     
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  7. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    That's what I'm talking about..."
    You often offer "constructive criticism" and a few others do as well. "constructive criticism" is different than arm chair quarterbacking of every move Ted has made since getting the job.

    A few of you now have come right out and said that Ted supporters don't want to hear "anything" critical about the guy. That's complete BS and yes, it takes away from any discussion to go there. I think it's a fair question for us to ask...please tell us who these TT supporters are that can't handle any criticism. I think, if you can't name any, why in God's name do you keep saying that? I find that interesting.

    You offered an insightful opinion on collective bargining and rostering. That deserves a thoughtful reply.

    When some Ted hater writes some of the crap they write, that says nothing but rants for the sack of ranting against Ted, for me... it's clear there is no "debate" or "conversation" to be had with that person. ...and in those instances...yes...I just remind them that this general manager they hate so much has more success than almost every other GM in the NFL. (and yes, there are guys that flat out hate Ted Thompson and have said as much)
     
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  8. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I´m not so sure about the new CBA not having an impact. The offseason program was reduced by five weeks, the number of OTAs was cut and padded practices were limited. I think that makes a huge difference for a rookie.

    I´m not asking to bring in veterans that will ruin our cap space in the long haul. But even if we draft our future safety and ILB this May, I wouldn´t mind bringing in someone who´s able to actually play for a season and teach the rookies how to play the position (BTW I´m not sure I want Burnett to teach a rookie how to play safety).
     
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  9. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Exactly my thoughts...i seriously think that they are his family members haha.
     
  10. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    for the record, the whole readers guide to you and your ilk part is what I found condescending, especially since I think you and I are in agreement on most things.

    I think the problem is we both feel the same way which is that we get unfairly grouped with the 2 extreme points of view that i mentioned in my op. So I do apologize for the constant "did you read my posts" comments, as I was just a bit mind boggled that it seemed I was getting a lecture about stuff we agree on!
     
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  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    This is exactly right.
    Not only that aspect, the supply & demand. But also this:
    Opposing offenses are now more used to facing a defense like this. It's no surprise anymore.
    True, that is not an excuse for why THIS particular 3-4 is below avg of the other 3-4's, but it used to be more of an advantage when fewer teams ran it because the offenses weren't as used to scheming it.
     
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  12. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    First off this is my 1st post on here, and so far I like what I see.

    Full disclosure, I am a TT supporter through and through and I cannot stand some of the criticism he receives from novice fans (which I can see most of you aren't). I live in Milwaukee and listen to local sports radio and my blood boils when people around here attempt to talk anything Packers, especially TT.

    I don't believe he is above criticism when it comes to his refusal to sign free agents (it drives me nuts) but I will argue to the death about his drafting ability. Especially his drafting in the past 2 seasons, because eventhough it's a copout I'm going to use it, injuries has ravaged his last 2 drafts.

    2012:
    Nick Perry, I agree hasn't been the player you'd like in the 1st rd, but he has played in 17 games and has amassed 6.5 sacks in that time. Now, if I were to tell you that our rookie OLB, which is essentially what he is based on games played, had 6.5 sacks in his rookie season what would you say? His tackles aren't anywhere near where you'd like them to be and he appears to be athletically challenged but I do think he will have a roll on this team as a very productive situational pass rusher. I will not consider him a bust.

    Jerel Worthy showed some flashes last year and tore his knee up. Can't do anything about that

    Casy Hayward stud

    Mike Daniels was arguably our best defensive player this year (not saying much I agree) but still true. I think Ted found a gem here.

    A ton of people around here point to McMillian, fine he didn't pan out. It was a 4th round pick. He isn't going to hit everywhere.

    2013:
    Datone Jones had the 4th most sacks of any defensive player taken in this draft, why he didn't play more is beyond me. To me thats a coaching decision not on Ted. Now, he was hurt much of TC and maybe that played a factor in his playing time. I refuse to chalk him up as a bust.

    Eddie Lacy stud

    David Bahktiari where would we have been without him?

    Micah Hyde is a going to be a solid player I don't think anyone can dispute that based on what we saw this year.

    Josh Boyd came on as of late. He said himself during an interview that he didn't know the defense early in the season which would be the reason for his lack of playing time. Once he learned the D he played and showed flashes.


    When it comes to free agency, even I can't argue that he has dropped the ball. This to me is the biggest mystery because when he has signed free agents, they have worked. Woodson resurected his career here, and Pickett has been a solid player his entire time here.
     
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  13. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    Welcome to the board ACE, good 1st post.
    I pretty much agree with all the players you mentioned here.
    Ted , using a baseball term, hit for the cycle in 2013 and hopefully he will again in 2014.
    But I'm pretty lukewarm on Ted's drafting prowess and I fear the brain trust of the Packers drafts may have left for such places as Seattle, KC and Oakland. If Ted hits it good this year those fears will be lessened.
    As far as free agency, nobody would like to see Ted use that tool a little more than I do.
    But we as fans don't really know what Ted has tried to do with regard to free agency.
    Perhaps he has made overtures and has been rebuffed. It takes 2 to tango and if a player he has courted just doesn't want to come to Green Bay then end of story.

    The things nobody can take away from Ted is that he has drug the Packers up out of salary cap hell and steadied the ship. During his tenure, the Packers have won a Super Bowl and have been in contention almost every year.

    Part of the fun of being a fan is being able to praise or criticize any aspect of your favorite team from your armchair without having any skin in the game.
    So when you hear another Packers fan be a critic of Ted or any other aspect of the Packers, just realize that as Packers fans we all want the Packers to be the best.
    Go Pack Go!
     
  14. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I don't think he gets NEARLY enough credit for this and that's what I was referring to when I was talking about the novice fans. Most either don't know or don't realize what kind of shape this team was left in when Sherman was releived of his duties.

    Another point I don't think he gets enough credit for are the moves he doesn't make.

    Scott Wells has been a huge dissapointment since he signed in STL.
    Greg Jenning had statistically his worst season since his rookie year in Minnesota.

    and that's just to name 2
     
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  15. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    I think we missed Greg Jennings to some extent.
    As far as his bad year, I bet he was wishing he had Aaron Rodgers throwing the ball.
     
  16. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    No question. Jordy, Jones and Cobb took notice, I'm sure. Seriously, moving to a different team could in fact, in the long run, cost these guys more than it is worth to get more in the short term. I know if I were them I would take 1 or 2 mil less a year to play with Rodgers.
     
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Comments such as this and similar ones from posters that like Ted set each off..

    If opinions could be nade with out condenseding remarks maybe threads wouldnt End up locked, or posts deleted.
     
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  18. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    Yea you're probably right but did we miss him to the tune of an average of 9 million per year?
     
  19. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    I don't think any athlete is worth 9 million dollars a year.
    So, no!
     
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  20. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    Fair enough.
     
  21. packfan1

    packfan1 Cheesehead

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    We EARNED it. They didn't. Nobody gave us ANYTHING. They weren't good enough and we were. Plain and simple. Playcalling this, playcalling that. When we lose it's TT and MM fault, when we win it's cause the other teams gave it to us. Added to that we lost to a very good 49er team by only 3 points missing our best defensive player. Just sayin.
     
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  22. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    :tup:
     

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