Update on Watson's Hamstrngs

[Thirteen Below]

The word has come down on Christian Watson's injury. As you may recall, Watson has been undergoing evaluation and treatment of his ongoing hamstring injuries at the University of Wisconsin Madison since January, trying to determine what was making him so prone to them and whether anything could be done to make him less susceptible.

Friday, it was revealed that one of the first things doctors learned was that there was a 22% differential in the muscle mass in his right leg and his left leg. That's really quite a lot, because the the normal discrepancy is well below 10%.

I'm guessing this may have been what Watson's father was referring to when he leaked a couple of months ago that they'd found something very significant that was correctable, and that those close to him were very confident it would make a difference.

Bottom line is, the muscles in the weaker leg have to try to work 22% harder to keep up with the other leg when both legs are trying to go the same speed. That's a lot of extra stress being forced on the weaker leg when it is already being pushed to the max as he sprints downfield. And while I am certainly no doctor, I can easily imagine that it would put some very uneven loads on the stronger leg, as it struggles to adjust to the weaker one.



Shortly after Watson's visit to UW, which in 2021 was given a $4 million grant by the NFL to study the prevention and treatment of hamstring injuries, he had a 20% difference in muscle mass between his right and left legs. Now, he says it's between 8% and 10%.

"I was obviously a little bit down in my right leg [compared] to the left," Watson said. "One, it puts strain on the left side, and the left is going through a lot more. And then two, obviously when you're trying to be equal in power, it obviously puts a lot more stress on the one that's not as strong. So that's been the No. 1 thing for me because that leads to fatigue as well. It's a bad place to be, so obviously that's been my No. 1 goal to just kind of eliminate that."

How Packers' Christian Watson is solving his nagging hamstring issues

Offseason testing found the root cause, and the Packers hope Watson will stay healthy and up his game in 2024.

www.espn.com

He further said that his goal is to get that disparity down from 8-10% to something less than 6%, in order to minimize as much as possible the different levels of force being applied to each of the two legs.

So I guess we will have to see. This does sound promising; time will tell, and all we can do is wait and see how it works out. I'm no expert on this, but I did a half hour of googling after I read this, and found that there are a lot of studies out there recently that suggest a pretty strong link between extreme differences in muscle mass and a likelihood of hamstring issues. So there may really be something to this.

Edited to add: I also can't help wondering if Stokes has a similar story, and that may be why we are suddenly hearing so many things about how much better he looks this spring and how confident the team suddenly is in him.

Lafleur certainly seems to be chortling just under his breath and smirking to himself when he speaks of Stokes. Could be a patented Packer smoke screen, or could maybe also be that he really does have reason to believe Stokes has taken a big step forward medically. If it's the latter (and it turns out to be warranted), our secondary could look much better in 2024 than we realized.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The word has come down on Christian Watson's injury. As you may recall, Watson has been undergoing evaluation and treatment of his ongoing hamstring injuries at the University of Wisconsin Madison since January, trying to determine what was making him so prone to them and whether anything could be done to make him less susceptible.

Friday, it was revealed that one of the first things doctors learned was that there was a 22% differential in the muscle mass in his right leg and his left leg. That's really quite a lot, because the the normal discrepancy is well below 10%.

I'm guessing this may have been what Watson's father was referring to when he leaked a couple of months ago that they'd found something very significant that was correctable, and that those close to him were very confident it would make a difference.

Bottom line is, the muscles in the weaker leg have to try to work 22% harder to keep up with the other leg when both legs are trying to go the same speed. That's a lot of extra stress being forced on the weaker leg when it is already being pushed to the max as he sprints downfield. And while I am certainly no doctor, I can easily imagine that it would put some very uneven loads on the stronger leg, as it struggles to adjust to the weaker one.



Shortly after Watson's visit to UW, which in 2021 was given a $4 million grant by the NFL to study the prevention and treatment of hamstring injuries, he had a 20% difference in muscle mass between his right and left legs. Now, he says it's between 8% and 10%.

"I was obviously a little bit down in my right leg [compared] to the left," Watson said. "One, it puts strain on the left side, and the left is going through a lot more. And then two, obviously when you're trying to be equal in power, it obviously puts a lot more stress on the one that's not as strong. So that's been the No. 1 thing for me because that leads to fatigue as well. It's a bad place to be, so obviously that's been my No. 1 goal to just kind of eliminate that."

How Packers' Christian Watson is solving his nagging hamstring issues

Offseason testing found the root cause, and the Packers hope Watson will stay healthy and up his game in 2024.

www.espn.com

He further said that his goal is to get that disparity down from 8-10% to something less than 6%, in order to minimize as much as possible the different levels of force being applied to each of the two legs.

So I guess we will have to see. This does sound promising; time will tell, and all we can do is wait and see how it works out. I'm no expert on this, but I did a half hour of googling after I read this, and found that there are a lot of studies out there recently that suggest a pretty strong link between extreme differences in muscle mass and a likelihood of hamstring issues. So there may really be something to this.

Edited to add: I also can't help wondering if Stokes has a similar story, and that may be why we are suddenly hearing so many things about how much better he looks this spring and how confident the team suddenly is in him.

Lafleur certainly seems to be chortling just under his breath and smirking to himself when he speaks of Stokes. Could be a patented Packer smoke screen, or could maybe also be that he really does have reason to believe Stokes has taken a big step forward medically. If it's the latter (and it turns out to be warranted), our secondary could look much better in 2024 than we realized.

Thanks 13. Interesting.

There is a machine at my gym called In Body - it's a scanner - you stand barefoot on two metal plates and hold two metal plated "arms" away from your body. The scan takes about 1 minute. The results are impressive in their breadth. It shows muscle mass and fat in each arm, leg and torso.

Now I'm a very fit guy, but also 70 y/o so I'm not like these chiseled, blazingly fast athletes we're talking about. FWIW the balance in muscle between my legs and arms is close, but not perfect. For example, my left arm is slightly smaller in muscle due to left shoulder arthritis, limiting how much and how often I can do chest presses, pull ups, anything that causes pain in my shoulder. But the difference is like 2%.

A 22% discrepancy in muscle mass between legs is huge. And on these guys, who have so little body fat, I would think such a discrepancy would be visible, very visible. Then again Watson is a big guy, 6'4" I think so maybe it wasn't visible.

The In Body machine does not differentiate between above the knee, below the knee. That's probably relevant and I'm sure whatever is being used on Watson is more advanced than what I use.

A discrepancy this large should cause a lot of problems, especially in the joints - hips, knees, ankles. I'm not saying I don't believe Watson's results. Just seems like this type of problem would have been obvious just to the eye.

Well I hope this solves his problem. Hamstring injuries are common in pro athletes. Would be great to make some progress on preventing this nasty injury.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don’t know if this is relevant? But missed Sunday Mass about 22% of the time growing up. Another 22% my parents wouldn’t go and my older siblings would have me run in and grab a church pamphlet so we could fake like we went to Mass. Then we’d be prepared with the sermon if my Father asked us what we learned! I doubt he wanted to hear that day old donuts were only a .05 cent

In all seriousness, one would think that bringing this info. into the spotlight will only help our cause. Trainers get to work on this young man!

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don’t know if this is relevant? But missed Sunday Mass about 22% of the time growing up. Another 22% my parents wouldn’t go and my older siblings would have me run in and grab a church pamphlet so we could fake like we went to Mass. Then we’d be prepared with the sermon if my Father asked us what we learned! I doubt he wanted to hear that day old donuts were only a .05 cent

In all seriousness, one would think that bringing this info. into the spotlight will only help our cause. Trainers get to work on this young man!

The church thing brings back cringe-worthy moments from my childhood. With all respect to my friends of faith, I have found it 100% easier to be a non-believer (that means there might be a god or something, I just don't know).

And back to the regularly scheduled program, yeah I'm just glad there is research going on at the NFL-level into these common and frustrating soft-tissue injuries, and how to minimize them. And the Packers need Watson to play this year, and to play up to his draft status.

Personally I like the guy, seems like a decent human being. Even so, this is his make or break year.

 

[Voyageur]

The church thing brings back cringe-worthy moments from my childhood. With all respect to my friends of faith, I have found it 100% easier to be a non-believer (that means there might be a god or something, I just don't know).

And back to the regularly scheduled program, yeah I'm just glad there is research going on at the NFL-level into these common and frustrating soft-tissue injuries, and how to minimize them. And the Packers need Watson to play this year, and to play up to his draft status.

Personally I like the guy, seems like a decent human being. Even so, this is his make or break year.

Whether you believe in God doesn't matter as much as how much you believe in your fellow man. If you are there for others, you're actually walking in the same footsteps as faith, because with or without faith, we're all still on the same path.

I think the character of the players the Packers have been bringing onto the roster is very high as of late. I think they're weighing the fit into the community, because Green Bay is obviously different than most NFL destinations, simply because of the small city atmosphere of the surroundings, compared to the teams in major metropolitan areas.

Players who don't understand the meaning of community, and interacting with community, don't really fit in GB. The player who most personified finding that niche for himself was Reggie White, and Charles Woodson took it to the next level. It's the same involvement that we saw back in the 60s, when you could walk into a restaurant, and be sitting next to a Packer player at a lunch counter, or having a beer in a bar. It's that down home, small town atmosphere.

We have several players at this point that fit into it as if it was tailor made for them. Tucker Kraft, and A.J. Dillon are prime examples. Watson is working on being one of them, and take my word for it, Josh Jacobs is going to be a huge part of that group. His coming to GB is going to end up being something that will make everyone smile in the end.

Even Jordan Love fits that bill. It's all about culture. The culture of family, team, and community. It's a return to unity that will make the team even better.

Anyhow, that's my opinion. It's great watching this develop. I did not think it would happen again in my lifetime, just three years ago, when the entire operation seemed so dysfunctional at all levels.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Whether you believe in God doesn't matter as much as how much you believe in your fellow man. If you are there for others, you're actually walking in the same footsteps as faith, because with or without faith, we're all still on the same path.

I think the character of the players the Packers have been bringing onto the roster is very high as of late. I think they're weighing the fit into the community, because Green Bay is obviously different than most NFL destinations, simply because of the small city atmosphere of the surroundings, compared to the teams in major metropolitan areas.

Players who don't understand the meaning of community, and interacting with community, don't really fit in GB. The player who most personified finding that niche for himself was Reggie White, and Charles Woodson took it to the next level. It's the same involvement that we saw back in the 60s, when you could walk into a restaurant, and be sitting next to a Packer player at a lunch counter, or having a beer in a bar. It's that down home, small town atmosphere.

We have several players at this point that fit into it as if it was tailor made for them. Tucker Kraft, and A.J. Dillon are prime examples. Watson is working on being one of them, and take my word for it, Josh Jacobs is going to be a huge part of that group. His coming to GB is going to end up being something that will make everyone smile in the end.

Even Jordan Love fits that bill. It's all about culture. The culture of family, team, and community. It's a return to unity that will make the team even better.

Anyhow, that's my opinion. It's great watching this develop. I did not think it would happen again in my lifetime, just three years ago, when the entire operation seemed so dysfunctional at all levels.

It is pretty amazing what has happened in the last 2 to 3 years. I just didn't believe Love was gonna be the guy and was happy, well so far, to be wrong. We had rolled the dice and won with Favre and Rodgers. Three HOF QBs I a row? That seemed like a long shot. Not any more. Time will tell of course, but things sure seem to be looking up for the Packers.

 

[Thirteen Below]

The church thing brings back cringe-worthy moments from my childhood. With all respect to my friends of faith, I have found it 100% easier to be a non-believer (that means there might be a god or something, I just don't know).

I'm with you, if it makes you feel any better. The only difference is, I don't have any doubt whatsoever there definitely is something there; I've just seen and experienced way too many things in my life to think that there isn't - it's religion I'm unable to believe in. I have a deep, powerful sense of spirituality; a constant sense that too many things are related to simply be a coincidence. There's definitely something there; I'm absolutely convinced of it. I just don't think the human mind can fully grasp the entirety of it.

Trouble is, I've never net a religion that made any sense to me. They all contradict themselves too much, and are all way too small and inadequate to explain the kind of higher power I envision.

I wish I knew more, but I've long ago that I'll never understand it in this lifetime. But I suspect I will afterward.

Personally I like the guy, seems like a decent human being. Even so, this is his make or break year.

It has to be. They need to make a decision on whether to extend him when his rookie contract runs out in 25; he's going to have to be able to show they can count on him to stay on the field. With all these guys coming up behind him, some of whom will need to be extended the following year, they won't take too many chances on guaranteed money for a guy who's injured half the season.

Lafleur has spoken a little about Watson over the last few days, but frankly it's the positive "sound byte" stuff you would expect to hear this time of year - terrific attitude, focused, positive, disciplined about his rehabilitation program.... helps old ladies across the street, rescues stray kittens, the usual "feel good" stuff.

I don't think we're going to really know much about where he's actually at until training camp officially opens the last week of July, because they're not going to put him to too much of a test at this stage. The OTA cycle is taking a break at the moment, but there'll be 3 days of "full speed" practices again on June 3,4, and 6, and then again in mandatory minicamp the 11th-13th. I'm really not sure how hard they're going to push him at this point.

 

[El Guapo]

I think that we're all here because the Packers are a part of our religion. We worship them on Sundays, preach the gospel, and shame the other faiths (Viking fans). It all makes sense now.

Errr, um.....Watson having this knowledge about his body makeup is one thing. Now he and the trainers need to put the correct plan in place and then he has to execute it in a short amount of time. Even then, who knows if this muscle mass scan is really the key to his injuries. It could be that he prefers Skippy over Jif, pours his milk before adding his cereal, or soaks his cereal instead of floating his cereal. There could be some series issues causing his hamstring that have nothing to do with muscle balance.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm with you, if it makes you feel any better. The only difference is, I don't have any doubt whatsoever there definitely is something there; I've just seen and experienced way too many things in my life to think that there isn't - it's religion I'm unable to believe in. I have a deep, powerful sense of spirituality; a constant sense that too many things are related to simply be a coincidence. There's definitely something there; I'm absolutely convinced of it. I just don't think the human mind can fully grasp the entirety of it.

Trouble is, I've never net a religion that made any sense to me. They all contradict themselves too much, and are all way too small and inadequate to explain the kind of higher power I envision.

I wish I knew more, but I've long ago that I'll never understand it in this lifetime. But I suspect I will afterward.



It has to be. They need to make a decision on whether to extend him when his rookie contract runs out in 25; he's going to have to be able to show they can count on him to stay on the field. With all these guys coming up behind him, some of whom will need to be extended the following year, they won't take too many chances on guaranteed money for a guy who's injured half the season.

Lafleur has spoken a little about Watson over the last few days, but frankly it's the positive "sound byte" stuff you would expect to hear this time of year - terrific attitude, focused, positive, disciplined about his rehabilitation program.... helps old ladies across the street, rescues stray kittens, the usual "feel good" stuff.

I don't think we're going to really know much about where he's actually at until training camp officially opens the last week of July, because they're not going to put him to too much of a test at this stage. The OTA cycle is taking a break at the moment, but there'll be 3 days of "full speed" practices again on June 3,4, and 6, and then again in mandatory minicamp the 11th-13th. I'm really not sure how hard they're going to push him at this point.

We are in violent agreement on both counts V. As for the spiritual side, a very good friend, and not religious, told me there are no coincidences in life. I believe him. Back to football, which is kinda like a religion in GB.........

Watson is kinda having a contract year early. Although it's more like a "Will I be able to play in the NFL?" year. They are certainly a much more dangerous team with him on the field, but yeah, he actually has to be on the playing field, not the sidelines.

 

[sschind]

Lafleur has spoken a little about Watson over the last few days, but frankly it's the positive "sound byte" stuff you would expect to hear this time of year - terrific attitude, focused, positive, disciplined about his rehabilitation program.... helps old ladies across the street, rescues stray kittens, the usual "feel good" stuff.

Not a cat fan. This doesn't bode well. Trade him now.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Not a cat fan. This doesn't bode well. Trade him now.

I don't have a lot of hope that Watson is gonna be a player in the NFL. And MLF was far more enthusiastic about Stokes return from injury, while the comments on Watson were boilerplate. I am glad he takes care of stray cats though .

As for trading him sschind, at this point, what could they get? Not much. There are only two outcomes - he beats the hamstring history and becomes a key part of a very good WR group, and he starts. Second option - status quo, he can't overcome the hamstring injury, and spends a large part of the season on the sideline, again.

While I' not optimistic, I'm not ready to let him go now. I think the talk about a 22% strength discrepancy between hamstrings is over stated, or bunk. How can an athlete like Watson, with probably single-digit body fat, have that much of a strength imbalance? I suppose if he only worked one hamstring in the weight room, and no one does that. I just don't buy it.

But give him this year. There's little to lose given the quality of the WR group. But damn, a healthy Watson would sure make a big difference in how opposing Ds play the Packers. I want the guy to succeed and open a feral cat shelter in GB.

 

[Voyageur]

What we have is an interesting blend of receivers. Each of them brings a little something different to the table. Deciding who goes and who stays isn't something that should be done. We need them. We need the depth, and the diversity. You can't rely on one or two guys out there and that's it. In today's game, that's not going to work. Especially with the potential of injuries.

Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Jayden Reed, Dontayvion Wicks, Bo Melton and Malik Heath.

Assuming you use 3 at a time, that puts Watson, Doubs, and Reed on the field as a starting unit, and allows Wicks to back Doubs, Heath to back Watson, and Melton behind Reed. The pecking order, of #1, 2, & 3, is irrelevant. The fact is, that all 3 will be an important part of the offense on essentially every play. Probably the best substitute, of the three is Wicks, who I think might actually end up getting some time working as the back up to Watson, because of his injury history. Plus, I think they'll use Watson somewhat sparingly on number of snaps, to insure he really does strengthen himself over the course of the season.

To put it bluntly, you don't mess with the part of the team that's working, and even if Watson is limited somewhat, he's that threat that you need on the field as much as possible.

There's another way to look at it as well. If Watson slowly works his way back onto the field, over the course of the season, and stays relatively healthy, he could be kept at a reasonable extension of his contract, that runs through 2025. A bit of irony that you save more down the road.

It would also be advisable to give Romeo Doubs a new contract, because his expires the same year. This guy is a proven chain mover, and they are something hard to find. Even if he ends up 3rd in receptions, it doesn't matter, it's the receptions he makes at crucial times, and he's proven he's the guy can do that.

Add Tucker Kraft and Luke Musgrave to the list of potential targets and this is a real wealth of depth.

Some recorded speeds of these guys. By the Packers. Some, like Musgrave and Kraft ran faster at the combine. But the Packers like their own measurements better.

Watson (4.36)
Reed (4.37)
Bo Melton (4.34)
Doubs (4.4)
Samori Toure (4.4) (His speed will give him a respectable chance of sticking around to be a back up fill in across the WR board)
Jayden Reed (4.45)
Dontayvian Wicks (4.58)
Luke Musgrave (4.61)
Tucker Kraft (4.68)

Obviously not the fastest group of WRs, but all in the upper 1/3 to 1/2 speed wise, and offering a consistent amount of potential depth on passing downs. This includes our TEs, who aren't exactly slouches for their size.

 

[Heyjoe4]

What we have is an interesting blend of receivers. Each of them brings a little something different to the table. Deciding who goes and who stays isn't something that should be done. We need them. We need the depth, and the diversity. You can't rely on one or two guys out there and that's it. In today's game, that's not going to work. Especially with the potential of injuries.

Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Jayden Reed, Dontayvion Wicks, Bo Melton and Malik Heath.

Assuming you use 3 at a time, that puts Watson, Doubs, and Reed on the field as a starting unit, and allows Wicks to back Doubs, Heath to back Watson, and Melton behind Reed. The pecking order, of #1, 2, & 3, is irrelevant. The fact is, that all 3 will be an important part of the offense on essentially every play. Probably the best substitute, of the three is Wicks, who I think might actually end up getting some time working as the back up to Watson, because of his injury history. Plus, I think they'll use Watson somewhat sparingly on number of snaps, to insure he really does strengthen himself over the course of the season.

To put it bluntly, you don't mess with the part of the team that's working, and even if Watson is limited somewhat, he's that threat that you need on the field as much as possible.

There's another way to look at it as well. If Watson slowly works his way back onto the field, over the course of the season, and stays relatively healthy, he could be kept at a reasonable extension of his contract, that runs through 2025. A bit of irony that you save more down the road.

It would also be advisable to give Romeo Doubs a new contract, because his expires the same year. This guy is a proven chain mover, and they are something hard to find. Even if he ends up 3rd in receptions, it doesn't matter, it's the receptions he makes at crucial times, and he's proven he's the guy can do that.

Add Tucker Kraft and Luke Musgrave to the list of potential targets and this is a real wealth of depth.

Some recorded speeds of these guys. By the Packers. Some, like Musgrave and Kraft ran faster at the combine. But the Packers like their own measurements better.

Watson (4.36)
Reed (4.37)
Bo Melton (4.34)
Doubs (4.4)
Samori Toure (4.4) (His speed will give him a respectable chance of sticking around to be a back up fill in across the WR board)
Jayden Reed (4.45)
Dontayvian Wicks (4.58)
Luke Musgrave (4.61)
Tucker Kraft (4.68)

Obviously not the fastest group of WRs, but all in the upper 1/3 to 1/2 speed wise, and offering a consistent amount of potential depth on passing downs. This includes our TEs, who aren't exactly slouches for their size.

Thanks for those stats. There is combine speed and then game speed. Either way, it's a fast group.

I won't be surprised to see Kraft give Musgrave a run for targets. Musgrave is very good at getting open and catching the ball, but his footwork leaves something to be desired. Kraft seems a bit more nimble after the catch. Any way you cut it, it's a solid group of receivers.

 

[OldSchool101]

Wow that’s impressive speed across the board.
We know that Watson has amazing potential. We just need to see him stay on the field as we also know you can’t do anything soaking in an ice bucket. I’d rather have an average 500 yard type WR who’s healthy. Hope he can stay in the field this year.

I’ll tell you I think we have 1 of 2 WR’s rise up. I already expect Reed to but I think it’s actually Dontayvion Wicks or Melton. Jim Nagy spoke to how several WR we drafted in day3 he had flirting on Day2, but other criteria made them slip hard. For Wicks he missed 2 games to injury + the Cavs cancelled their last 2 games which didn’t help.

I love Wicks the more I watch him he moves like Davante. Maybe not as refined as today’s Adams, but if you watch Wicks tape? He’s a smooth operator. Maybe he played basketball like Adam’s idk. Almost acrobatic like. He wins with superior body movement skills it’s not so much his route running. He compensates with athletic ability. If Wicks can continue to improve his route running he could be an easy WR2/WR3, solid Starter floor.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Wow that’s impressive speed across the board.
We know that Watson has amazing potential. We just need to see him stay on the field as we also know you can’t do anything soaking in an ice bucket. I’d rather have an average 500 yard type WR who’s healthy. Hope he can stay in the field this year.

I’ll tell you I think we have 1 of 2 WR’s rise up. I think it’s actually Dontayvion Wicks or Melton. Jim Nagy spoke to how several WR we drafted in day3 he had on Day2, but other criteria made them slip hard.

I love Wicks the more I watch him he moves like Davante. Maybe not as refined as today’s Adams, but if you watch Wicks tape? He’s a smooth operator. Maybe he played basketball like Adam’s idk. Almost acrobatic like. He wins with superior body movement skills it’s not so much his route running. He compensates with athletic ability. If Wicks can continue to improve his route running he could be an easy WR2/WR3, solid Starter

Of the rookies, I was most impressed by Wicks. He just stepped in and seemed to get it very quickly. The guy is special. What I remember about Melton was that he caught almost everything. I might be wrong. Just seems he had great hands.

 

[Voyageur]

Thanks for those stats. There is combine speed and then game speed. Either way, it's a fast group.

I won't be surprised to see Kraft give Musgrave a run for targets. Musgrave is very good at getting open and catching the ball, but his footwork leaves something to be desired. Kraft seems a bit more nimble after the catch. Any way you cut it, it's a solid group of receivers.

The beautiful thing about the Kraft - Misgrave pair of TEs, the amazing options they have to run a two TE offense when needed. Two guys who have some speed, and can hang onto the ball, in a tight formation at the goal line, etc. It's possible that in 2025, the pair will be picked as the best pair in the NFL, or at least close to it, as a unit. Yes! Melton has good hands. Might not be quite as good as Doubs, but he's a really special possession type receiver. You need that type on the field when you have a crucial 3rd down and the game is on the line. You can count on them reeling in anything that's catchable.

 

[Voyageur]

Wow that’s impressive speed across the board.
We know that Watson has amazing potential. We just need to see him stay on the field as we also know you can’t do anything soaking in an ice bucket. I’d rather have an average 500 yard type WR who’s healthy. Hope he can stay in the field this year.

I’ll tell you I think we have 1 of 2 WR’s rise up. I already expect Reed to but I think it’s actually Dontayvion Wicks or Melton. Jim Nagy spoke to how several WR we drafted in day3 he had flirting on Day2, but other criteria made them slip hard. For Wicks he missed 2 games to injury + the Cavs cancelled their last 2 games which didn’t help.

I love Wicks the more I watch him he moves like Davante. Maybe not as refined as today’s Adams, but if you watch Wicks tape? He’s a smooth operator. Maybe he played basketball like Adam’s idk. Almost acrobatic like. He wins with superior body movement skills it’s not so much his route running. He compensates with athletic ability. If Wicks can continue to improve his route running he could be an easy WR2/WR3, solid Starter floor.

One of the things I always tell people to watch with WRs is their hip rotation. So many of them come to a near stop when they do it, and it takes time to accelerate again. Wicks does what James Jones did, when I first watched him in camp, and knew he was going to be a good one. The fluid rotation of the hips, not losing speed, nor telegraphing it's going to happen, can create some separation that most receivers can't get. I see it in Doubs too, and that's why I told everyone the moment they got into camp that Doubs was going to be ahead of Watson from the start because of his ability to use his body effectively. As an example, Doubs knew, the day he got into camp, that you always place your body between the QB/ball and the defender, when you run a route that's not intent on getting behind the defenders. You watch so many guys trying to rely on speed to be in position, then fail to block the defenders out, from the ball.

 

[OldSchool101]

The beautiful thing about the Kraft - Misgrave pair of TEs, the amazing options they have to run a two TE offense when needed. Two guys who have some speed, and can hang onto the ball, in a tight formation at the goal line, etc. It's possible that in 2025, the pair will be picked as the best pair in the NFL, or at least close to it, as a unit.

We’ve got on paper what many teams would envy at TE. A pair of TE going into their second season who have both proved they belong in the NFL. They both have high ceilings, but as we know it’s a coin flip as to IF they reach it. However we have 2 Coin flips and I like those chances.

As with Watson, it will likely come down to health. We don’t need to be perfect imo on health, but just stay above league average health for the season, that would make us dangerously good at across the WR/TE room.

 

[Heyjoe4]

We’ve got on paper what many teams would envy at TE. A pair of TE going into their second season who have both proved they belong in the NFL. They both have high ceilings, but as we know it’s a coin flip as to IF they reach it. However we have 2 Coin flips and I like those chances.

As with Watson, it will likely come down to health. We don’t need to be perfect imo on health, but just stay above league average health for the season, that would make us dangerously good at across the WR/TE room.

Kraft is not off to a good start with a torn pec (Tom also has a torn pec). I don't get these injuries. they come from doing too much in the weight room. I don't know the specifics here, but guessing these guys are challenging themselves with greater weight. It's actually better to build muscle by decreasing weight and increasing reps (hypertrophy).

Anyway, just dumb to get a serious injury in the weight room.

 

[Voyageur]

Kraft is not off to a good start with a torn pec (Tom also has a torn pec). I don't get these injuries. they come from doing too much in the weight room. I don't know the specifics here, but guessing these guys are challenging themselves with greater weight. It's actually better to build muscle by decreasing weight and increasing reps (hypertrophy).

Anyway, just dumb to get a serious injury in the weight room.

I agree. It shouldn't happen. I think players need to work within themselves, not continue to raise the bar on what they can do. Let it come to them slowly, and methodically.

Yet, we keep seeing players try to do the Herculean tasks, as if it proved them more. Reality is, supple muscles are great, but chiseled can be a problem with injuries.

 

[Poppa San]

Obviously not the fastest group of WRs

Wow that’s impressive speed across the board.

Somebody needs to help me make up my mind.

 

[OldSchool101]

Somebody needs to help me make up my mind.

sorry I can’t help you you’ll have to go it alone! Go ahead and Pick one.
Age?@Voyageur Or Beauty? (Me!)

 

[Thirteen Below]

I love Wicks the more I watch him he moves like Davante. Maybe not as refined as today’s Adams, but if you watch Wicks tape? He’s a smooth operator. Maybe he played basketball like Adam’s idk. Almost acrobatic like.

You nailed it. Varsity point guard at Plaquemine High School.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree. It shouldn't happen. I think players need to work within themselves, not continue to raise the bar on what they can do. Let it come to them slowly, and methodically.

Yet, we keep seeing players try to do the Herculean tasks, as if it proved them more. Reality is, supple muscles are great, but chiseled can be a problem with injuries.

Your last point is exactly right. Ironic that Arnold S, the world champion bodybuilder, later promoted hypertrophy for muscle growth with more reps, less weight, work the muscle to fail not to injury.

This is not how body builders usually work, so it's strange coming from Arnold. My trainer tells me to do between 5 and 30 reps of anything. For example, while I can bicep curl at 25-30 lbs, it's only 10 reps. If I drop the weight to 15, I usually "fail" around 25-30 reps. Same with legs. Same with anything.

Tearing a muscle during a workout means you did something very wrong. Failure to stretch and warm up with lower weights, bad form, using too much weight or trying for too many reps. Anyone who has done resistance training should know all of this. Anyway, it's just dumb. And I can say that because I've done it.

 

[sschind]

Depends on whether you are building for mass or strength. Muscle mass doesn't alway equal strength. Before I went to college I was a bit of a bodybuilder, ok a very little bit of a body builder. We always trained with lighter weights and higher reps to failure. There was a guy in our gym who was training for powerlifting, he was about 2/3 my size and didn't really look all that muscular but he could lift more than I could in any of the three PL moves and more than many of the serious bodybuilders. He trained with the heaviest weights he could for a maximum of 5 reps. I don't know if training has changed (I haven't picked up a weight in 30 years) but if you want to get stronger you need to lift heavy weights. I'm guess that as a lineman Tom was going for strength more than mass. As a TE Kraft probably was too.