TT and MM

[Munny]

Time for their tenure to be looked at? I think so.

Favre is just a side show in this whole debacle. Lets start looking at key elements and decision making by the 2 in charge.

3-4 D while we retain and try to retrain a few key players best suited for a 4-3?

Play calling on both sides of the ball that have been suspect at best.

An O-line that has been awful.

Resigning a RB that is washed up in hopes of him turning into a key 3rd down back.

Letting go a promising RB that had quickness and vision.

The list could go on but... I am all out of head shaking words.

It is time for MM and TT to be held accountable for our teams performance, period.

I am not a Favre lover by any means. I do believe given some time Rodgers will be more than adequate. Yet we are sitting with a team that is in need of some key changes before they are a top notch playoff caliber team.

MM and TT have had long enough to show us what direction their decisions are leading this organization, period.

 

[Hauschild]

Both these guys will return in 2010 mainly because Green Bay is going to have a winning season when it's all said and done. I believe it would be more reasonable to let this season unfold and finish and give TT another year to fix that O-line. It's pretty difficult to fire a GM and coach who finish 10-6 or better, not to mention TT has done more good things than bad as GM, although having 5 years to address a glaring deficiency on the O-line is tough to swallow at this point.

However, I'd sniff around Cowher a bit and maybe give him a shot at GM and head coach and if he would be interested, that would be a risk worth taking.

 

[wischeez]

Well said Munny

And I like the Cowher idea Hauschildhttp://www.packerforum.com/members/hauschild.html

 

[Jess]

I'd fire them both for Cowher. Or Holmgren.

Frankly, I don't think McCarthy is a particularly good coach, but I also feel like he needs a GM that's willing to make the free agency moves and trades necessary to build a winner.

Look at Minnesota. Need a QB? Bring in Favre. Need O-line help? Steve Hutchinson's available. Need a pass rush? Trade for Jared Allen. Frankly, and it feels like blasphemy, I think the Vikings are a better run team than the Packers at the moment.

 

[MplsPacker]

Vikings are a better team at this point in time.

 

[Hauschild]

I'd fire them both for Cowher. Or Holmgren.

Frankly, I don't think McCarthy is a particularly good coach, but I also feel like he needs a GM that's willing to make the free agency moves and trades necessary to build a winner.

Look at Minnesota. Need a QB? Bring in Favre. Need O-line help? Steve Hutchinson's available. Need a pass rush? Trade for Jared Allen. Frankly, and it feels like blasphemy, I think the Vikings are a better run team than the Packers at the moment.

Uh, I'm not big on Holmgren. I think his best days are behind him. He seems to lose steam after a while and this is not the type of job for guys that don't REALLY have the passion.

I think Cowher is the only candidate that I'd give full power to, knowing it's not really a good idea in the long run. Cowher seemed to do things the right way by building thru the draft. A lot like TT, but seems to have been a better drafter (although that's complete speculation on my part because I'm not even sure Cowher was GM in Pitt - probably not).

However, I doubt Green Bay is the type of situation Cowher would feel comfortable with, but again pure speculation.

 

[DILLIGAFF]

Bottom line the Packers have been in a rebuilding stage for the last year, this year and next year. Thats the path MM and TT have taken. They had the choice of keeping a Hall of fame QB and using free agency to get a few players to fill the needs after going 13-3 to make a run and choose not to.

The only problem I have with this direction the packers are taking, is the fact that TT and MM are leading the way.

MM did not have that team prepared today, lack of disciple from the players to his game planning. The only fact remains for MM, the success he has had in the big games has come from the BF in the 2007 season. BF had the respect and control of the team and the Packers believed in him. Packers 2 years latter are still looking for a leader.

 

[Hauschild]

Bottom line the Packers have been in a rebuilding stage for the last year, this year and next year. Thats the path MM and TT have taken. They had the choice of keeping a Hall of fame QB and using free agency to get a few players to fill the needs after going 13-3 to make a run and choose not to.

The only problem I have with this direction the packers are taking, is the fact that TT and MM are leading the way.

MM did not have that team prepared today, lack of disciple from the players to his game planning. The only fact remains for MM, the success he has had in the big games has come from the BF in the 2007 season. BF had the respect and control of the team and the Packers believed in him. Packers 2 years latter are still looking for a leader.

I agree and more on your point about TT and MM in that supposedly, great teams are built in the "trenches" - O-line and D-line. Well, after 5 years, we've still got inconsistent run blocking, pass protection and pass rush. It is severely frustrating because we all can see the offense score at will against average defenses, or stymie suspect offenses. It's the retardation or stagnancy in these areas that drives me nuts, and has for the past several years.

So, we let another year pass and wait for another, but what evidence do we have that things will improve? I've always subscribed to Wolf's philosophy where you build thru the draft, but address major weaknesses via free agency. TT did acquire Woodson who was a fairly major free agent, but that's really about the only expensive free agent he sealed the deal on.

It's certainly frustrating, but something has to give sooner or later.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Pom-Pom

You are not a Packer fan, you fraud. Go join a VIkings or Favre forum.

 

[Hauschild]

Pom-Pom

You are not a Packer fan, you fraud. Go join a VIkings or Favre forum.

I am a member of many different forums. While I enjoy and embrace debate, you aren't interested in points of view that differ from your own because it frightens you and when you get scared, you get angry and when you get angry you let the hate consume you.

A forum is a public meeting or assembly for OPEN discussion - and it should be embraced that way because every voice has a right to be heard. Not to mention it makes discussions far more interesting and valid.

 

[Alkalin3trio]

The pack is only a few players away from being super bowl contenders. Most of the penalties this team gets is at O-line, something that can be fixed fairly easily. and the biggest weakness is the O-line which is still pretty young. I say trade Kampman for picks next offseason, or even a quality OL/LB (doubtful tho). Sure up the o line with next draft and/or free agency and draft a quality LB to go with hawk barnett and matthews. With rodgers looking the way he does with a awful oline just imagine how he'd look behind even an average one. running backs are dependent on a good line as well so bottom line... Fix the O-line and the running will come (especially with teams having to respect rodgers) and packers are top 5 team

 

[Hauschild]

The pack is only a few players away from being super bowl contenders. Most of the penalties this team gets is at O-line, something that can be fixed fairly easily. and the biggest weakness is the O-line which is still pretty young. I say trade Kampman for picks next offseason, or even a quality OL/LB (doubtful tho). Sure up the o line with next draft and/or free agency and draft a quality LB to go with hawk barnett and matthews. With rodgers looking the way he does with a awful oline just imagine how he'd look behind even an average one. running backs are dependent on a good line as well so bottom line... Fix the O-line and the running will come (especially with teams having to respect rodgers) and packers are top 5 team

I'll bet more than a few teams can lay claim to being "contenders" with a few players.

The problem is for the last 5 years we've all known where the problems with Green Bay lie, but they aren't getting addressed adequately. TT's been trying to "fix" the O-line since he's been aboard. It's almost to the point of being nonsensical.

 

[AzPackerfan]

I say let's go get an offensive co-ordinator this offseason. MM's got too much on his plate. He should be spending his week teaching this team how NOT to collect penalties, or how to protect the QB. In other words...get a capable offensive co-ordinator who knows how to call plays for success, then if TT decides to pull the trigger on MM next season...we will already have a potential coach in place. I have no idea who this person could be, but I get a gut feeling that MM is not worried about his job. It's time to turn up the heat.

 

[Alkalin3trio]

The O-line is still very young, 1-2 more years being with one another and they will get there. Look at most elite o-lines, they have been together for years. Couple years ago PIT ad NYG had shaky lines now they are considered some of the best this year. An O-line, probably more than any other position, just need to gel together over some years. I'm telling 1-2 years this O-line will not be a problem

 

[AzPackerfan]

The O-line is still very young, 1-2 more years being with one another and they will get there. Look at most elite o-lines, they have been together for years. Couple years ago PIT ad NYG had shaky lines now they are considered some of the best this year. An O-line, probably more than any other position, just need to gel together over some years. I'm telling 1-2 years this O-line will not be a problem

We will probably get to find out if you are right...TT hasn't done anything to make the line better. Too bad Rogers will have to live in massive pain every week until he gets broken in half before something gets done.

 

[MP18]

I just posted this in the game day thread but it seems to be more of the subject matter here ...

As a Viking fan, I can say that there is not much joy watching "YOUR" QB beat you.

I am glad for the Vikings but it doesn't feel right.

As I posted before the game it is like watching Larry Bird play for the Lakers or Pistons.

Anyway, what I really want to post about is your dumb *** of a GM (and I am not talking about the Favre situation).

I am talking about your latest draft.

Imagine if you will that your team did this in the draft ...

1st round pick 9 - Michael Oher OT
2nd round pick 9 - Phil Loadholt or Max Unger OT
3rd round pick 9 - Glen Coffee RB
3rd round pick 19 - Rashad Johnson S
4th round pick 9 - Sammie Lee Hill DT
5th round pick 9 - Nate Davis QB

BJ Raji is nice but he doesn't even start. Clay Matthews looks to be the real deal too.

But your offensive line was begging for attention

Maybe your guys will work out but if you would have had at least the first two picks, you would be sitting pretty right now because Rodgers is the real deal if you can give him some time.

Unfortunately, he is getting killed and his chances of staying healthy are dwindling IMHO.

If he goes down, well then it is Flynn.

After Thompson drafted Harrell in 2007, then he fails to address your offensive line even in FA, well what else can be said.

I must say I am glad you did not get those two studs on your offensive line as a Viking fan but it sure was puzzling to say the least during the draft.

Good luck the rest if the year and perhaps we will meet again although I am not hoping for that because it is really difficult to beat a team 3 times in one year.

 

[Veretax]

First I think we will make the play offs this year, and we'll do it by beating out Chicago.


Secondly, I think if you give rodgers 50% more time in the pocket that we win this game. However if either is gone, I do not want Holmgrem back. I was more upset when he left than when Favre got Traded.

 

[Pack_Attack_Is_Back]

I truthfully think the key to failure thus far has been on the coaching, and last nights game was just reinforcement to that conclusion. MM went into the game with the same game plan that failed in the first meeting, and he expected it to work. I whole heartedly believe the key to success for the packers is dropping TT and MM and looking for a coach and/or a gm that can utilize the draft and free agency to strengthen a struggling o-line and other various weaknesses. I like the idea of Cowher especially when you consider his relationship with Capers. That type of move could be a huge step forward for the pack, and real leap toward success. IMHO... Well, that's my two cents worth.

 

[mike bat]

ive been saying since the whole saga started ... TT and MM have to go ... there running this team in the dirt ... i say let the heads roll

 

[OneHotelFoxtrot]

I'm not a huge Ted supporter, but I don't hate him either. I have supported McCarthy ever since he took a hold of this team, but there are some things that bother me. The penalties, those should have been taken care of a long time ago. After 1, 2 games tops it should have been fixed. He always says they are frustrating and they will be addressed. I'm not sure what that means anymore, cause nothing seems to be getting done about it. Halftime adjustments are poor as some have mentioned already. I do think Rodgers is a great Qb and his best years are ahead of him, so that is comforting, but with no O-Line it can mean nothing, so that definitely needs to get fixed. With all that said lets move on from this. Worry about beating TB now. GO PACK GO!!:viksux::chisux::detsux:

 

[Hauschild]

I just posted this in the game day thread but it seems to be more of the subject matter here ...

As a Viking fan, I can say that there is not much joy watching "YOUR" QB beat you.

I am glad for the Vikings but it doesn't feel right.

As I posted before the game it is like watching Larry Bird play for the Lakers or Pistons.

Anyway, what I really want to post about is your dumb *** of a GM (and I am not talking about the Favre situation).

I am talking about your latest draft.

Imagine if you will that your team did this in the draft ...

1st round pick 9 - Michael Oher OT
2nd round pick 9 - Phil Loadholt or Max Unger OT
3rd round pick 9 - Glen Coffee RB
3rd round pick 19 - Rashad Johnson S
4th round pick 9 - Sammie Lee Hill DT
5th round pick 9 - Nate Davis QB

BJ Raji is nice but he doesn't even start. Clay Matthews looks to be the real deal too.

But your offensive line was begging for attention

Maybe your guys will work out but if you would have had at least the first two picks, you would be sitting pretty right now because Rodgers is the real deal if you can give him some time.

Unfortunately, he is getting killed and his chances of staying healthy are dwindling IMHO.

If he goes down, well then it is Flynn.

After Thompson drafted Harrell in 2007, then he fails to address your offensive line even in FA, well what else can be said.

I must say I am glad you did not get those two studs on your offensive line as a Viking fan but it sure was puzzling to say the least during the draft.

Good luck the rest if the year and perhaps we will meet again although I am not hoping for that because it is really difficult to beat a team 3 times in one year.

TT isn't big on O-lineman before round 4, save Colledge and Spitz. He seems to have convinced himself that he over-extended with these two picks and isn't gonna follow suit ever again.

However, even if he begins to draft O-lineman NOW, it's a bit late in HIS game. He'll need to get SOLID free agents and not Matt O'Dwyer's and Adrian Klemm's and Duke Preston's.

 

[mike bat]

TT isn't big on O-lineman before round 4, save Colledge and Spitz. He seems to have convinced himself that he over-extended with these two picks and isn't gonna follow suit ever again.

However, even if he begins to draft O-lineman NOW, it's a bit late in HIS game. He'll need to get SOLID free agents and not Matt O'Dwyer's and Adrian Klemm's and Duke Preston's.

i just prey its for another team , not the packers ... we need TT like we need another loss to the queens ... :shock: