Tremaine Edmunds

[Dantés]

As he is generating some healthy debate, perhaps we should get him his own thread. Marcus was starting to complain.

 

[GleefulGary]

I was legit going to make this thread just right now. You turd.

 

[GleefulGary]

@HardRightEdge

No, I do not know exactly what Edmunds will run at the combine. For some strange reason, I doubt you do either.

Historically, it is pretty rare for an ILB to run below a 4.6 40. Couple of them a year, tops. Last year, only one (I'm excluding Jabril Peppers). So I'm not expecting a 6'5 250 lb player to run a sub 4.6. I don't think you should either. I know what I've seen on tape though, and the kid is fast enough to cover TE's. Hell, he goes sideline to sideline easily with RB's, that's indicative of his speed and reaction time.

I also disagree with you that his zone drops don't show us anything. After seeing Martinez and Ryan get lost in their zone drops countless times, we should realize that they are important. So yeah, to see a 250 lb linebacker drop, immediately see the slant and jump the route is very impressive. What I've also seen on tape in both run and pass situations is his ability to open up his hips, turn and run. That is a big part of LB's being able to cover TE's and RB's. So to me, when you combine good speed, fluid hips, and good reaction skills, I think it's fair to project that player as being able to be good in coverage. That doesn't mean he won't have issues. Man coverage is not something he's done a lot of, there will be a learning curve. At his best, he's a downhill gap attacker...BUT he also has the potential to be a plus coverage linebacker. That's a rare skillset. If you look at how Pettine uses his ILB's historically, this kid fits it, and definitely more than any other ILB we have on our roster. I do think there can be a debate that value wise it might not be best to go with an ILB at #14, and I think that's a fair argument. I think Leighton Vander Esch from Boise St would be a great option in the 2nd (if he's there). Otherwise if you want a coverage LB, Josh Jones could do it, but even he is at his best attacking downhill and struggles in space. Ideally he's a box safety/rover of some type, but I think he's at his best closer to the line of scrimmage.

 

[Dantés]

I like Edmunds because of the versatility of his skill set. His sideline to sideline range is special-- and it comes in such a big package that he arrives with a lot more force than most players who have that sort of range. His length helps him in zone coverage, and in the snippets here and there I see ability to hand TE's and RB's well in man coverage. He also flashes some edge rushing ability. A big, long, athletic linebacker who can cover and edge rush a little bit, while ranging the width of the field and bringing heat up the A gaps... I think the Packers could absolutely use that.

 

[GleefulGary]

I like Edmunds because of the versatility of his skill set. His sideline to sideline range is special-- and it comes in such a big package that he arrives with a lot more force than most players who have that sort of range. His length helps him in zone coverage, and in the snippets here and there I see ability to hand TE's and RB's well in man coverage. He also flashes some edge rushing ability. A big, long, athletic linebacker who can cover and edge rush a little bit, while ranging the width of the field and bringing heat up the A gaps... I think every team in the NFL could absolutely use that.

FIFY

 

[brandon2348]

Gotta wait for combine for confirmation but appears to be a major reach at 14. Could be a nice pick up in 2nd day depending on Pettine's plans on defense. As far as covering TE's and RB's I think there is some wishful thinking going on. Gonna have to wait and see.

 

[GleefulGary]

Gotta wait for combine for confirmation but appears to be a major reach at 14. Could be a nice pick up in 2nd day depending on Pettine's plans on defense. As far as covering TE's and RB's I think there is some wishful thinking going on. Gonna have to wait and see.

Would it be possible for you expound on why you think it would be a reach, and why it's wishful thinking to see him covering TE's and RB's? Thanks.

 

[Mondio]

I was legit going to make this thread just right now. You turd.

even more legit, I don't even know who he is

 

[brandon2348]

Would it be possible for you expound on why you think it would be a reach, and why it's wishful thinking to see him covering TE's and RB's? Thanks.

Because I believe he is gonna run in the 4.7 range. This is the NFL. I know you like how he "flips his hips" but he is going to be trying to do so with the likes of McCaffery, Kamara, J. White Etc Etc. Teams will match him up appropriately and eat lunch. I don't see a 3 down player and that's what you would like to potentially get with pick 14 at ILB.

R. Smith sign me up at 14. Run from Edmunds at 14. It's that simple. I could see some value in day 2 with Edmunds as posted.

 

[GleefulGary]

Because I believe he is gonna run in the 4.7 range. This is the NFL. I know you like how he "flips his hips" but he is going to be trying to do so with the likes of McCaffery, Kamara, J. White Etc Etc. Teams will match him up appropriately and eat lunch. I don't see a 3 down player and that's what you would like to potentially get with pick 14 at ILB.

R. Smith sign me up at 14. Run from Edmunds at 14. It's that simple. I could see some value in day 2 with Edmunds as posted.

When you have the ability to review tape effectively you don't need to rely so heavily on circus combine numbers but for "combine junkies" such as yourself I understand the tendency.

*cough* *cough*

Didn't think you'd need to rely so heavily on the circus combine numbers bruh.

 

[HardRightEdge]

@HardRightEdge

No, I do not know exactly what Edmunds will run at the combine. For some strange reason, I doubt you do either.

Historically, it is pretty rare for an ILB to run below a 4.6 40. Couple of them a year, tops. Last year, only one (I'm excluding Jabril Peppers). So I'm not expecting a 6'5 250 lb player to run a sub 4.6. I don't think you should either. I know what I've seen on tape though, and the kid is fast enough to cover TE's. Hell, he goes sideline to sideline easily with RB's, that's indicative of his speed and reaction time.

I also disagree with you that his zone drops don't show us anything. After seeing Martinez and Ryan get lost in their zone drops countless times, we should realize that they are important. So yeah, to see a 250 lb linebacker drop, immediately see the slant and jump the route is very impressive. What I've also seen on tape in both run and pass situations is his ability to open up his hips, turn and run. That is a big part of LB's being able to cover TE's and RB's. So to me, when you combine good speed, fluid hips, and good reaction skills, I think it's fair to project that player as being able to be good in coverage. That doesn't mean he won't have issues. Man coverage is not something he's done a lot of, there will be a learning curve. At his best, he's a downhill gap attacker...BUT he also has the potential to be a plus coverage linebacker. That's a rare skillset. If you look at how Pettine uses his ILB's historically, this kid fits it, and definitely more than any other ILB we have on our roster. I do think there can be a debate that value wise it might not be best to go with an ILB at #14, and I think that's a fair argument. I think Leighton Vander Esch from Boise St would be a great option in the 2nd (if he's there). Otherwise if you want a coverage LB, Josh Jones could do it, but even he is at his best attacking downhill and struggles in space. Ideally he's a box safety/rover of some type, but I think he's at his best closer to the line of scrimmage.

Here's one indication of his speed from a site that has proven to be fairly accurate:

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=1002839&draftyear=2018&genpos=OLB

He could surprise or perhaps he does not.

4.60 ILBs are less rare that ILBs drafted at #14 or above. Kendricks ran a 4.61 and dropped to #45 and logs a 97% snap count in a top defense.

If you look at Ryan's college tape, he looked good in his zone drops. Capers coverages were defective. Capers kept doing the same things year after year and offenses adjusted.

If the Packers were to draft him it would be to play OLB, not his natural position.

 

[brandon2348]

*cough* *cough*

Didn't think you'd need to rely so heavily on the circus combine numbers bruh.

I am actually not a combine junkie and like tape better but when your talking about a 6'5 250 ILB transitioning into the NFL I believe speed needs to be further investigated.

The question becomes are we getting Brian Urlacher or Benardrick McKinney. There is obviously a big difference so need to do due dilligence.

 

[HardRightEdge]

*cough* *cough*

Didn't think you'd need to rely so heavily on the circus combine numbers bruh.

So, we have arguments here about a guy who didn't do much man coverage work but he "should" be able to in a step up in competition.

Too bad he's not a senior because we might see the attempt on display on Saturday.

The NFL doesn't run the underwear Olympics for the entertainment value. They have to project guys into doing things they have not been asked to do before along with the step up.

And it has gotten progressively worse in the past decade. Pro style offenses are rare in colleges, and defenses designed to combat them are non-existent.

I have no interest in taking an ILB at #14, and am highly skeptical of drafting one at that spot and hoping he'll convert to 4-3 OLB.

 

[GleefulGary]

I am actually not a combine junkie and like tape better but when your talking about a 6'5 250 ILB transitioning into the NFL I believe speed needs to be further investigated.

The question becomes are we getting Brian Urlacher or Benardrick McKinney. There is obviously a big difference so need to do due dilligence.

Haha, I'm aware you're not a combine junkie. I'm just messing with you.

I think what you're getting at, is that the tape matters, and the testing numbers matter. We need both of them. Maybe Edmunds runs a 4.7 40 but has an elite 10 yard split, what then? I think we need all of the numbers along with the tape to properly evaluate a player. So yeah, if he tests slow, then he's off the board. Until we know the numbers though, it's all just futile discussion. I think the tape shows that he's fast, but I won't know that until he runs at the combine. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm not, we shall see. But yes, I do agree that when we are talking about a 250 lb ILB his speed does need to be investigated. I mean, I think EVERY player needs his speed to be investigated, except maybe a QB depending on the circumstances. The NFL doesn't put on the combine for kicks and giggles...the testing numbers are very important. There are always exceptions, but most of the great players in the league are great athletes in comparison to their peers.

 

[Dantés]

Zierlein's Report...

Strengths:

Unique size with long limbs and a rangy frame. Wears his weight with ease. Frame is destined to become even more imposing with additional weight work. Feet pump and trigger like pistons. Excellent lateral quickness to scrape and stalk. Uses his size and speed to cast a wide, playmaking net and cover large swaths of grass. Twitches for a second when it is time to make a play. Spins out of blocks to find his way back into the play. Combines length with rare reactive athleticism and agility to access and tackle opportunities from unconventional angles. Captures and finishes as a tackler at highly efficient rate. Elite traits help to create sensational production across the board. Disruptive in all phases. Electric as "add-on" rusher when back stays in. Has length and burst to affect pocket as edge rusher. Effective man cover talent with ability to match shifty running backs and bulky tight ends.

Weaknesses:

Instincts are average and relies on athletic gifts. Can be a step slow to diagnose. Lured by misdirection. Will take random downhill paths that trap him in the quagmire. Patience is lacking. Races ahead of plays and voids his leverage and run fits at times. Needs to add more upper and lower body strength. Average base strength and high center of gravity create issues holding up at the point of attack. Needs to be quicker to punch in order to maintain clearance. Mental busts in man coverage hurt his team. Takes time to process moving pieces.

Bottom Line:

Edmunds combines elite size, speed and explosiveness into a productive, versatile linebacker package that will have evaluators salivating. Edmunds has posted high-impact production over the last two seasons and he still has room to get bigger and better. Edmunds will make mental mistakes and his instincts are subpar, but he has an ability to mitigate those issues with his athletic ability. Edmunds can play in any alignment at any linebacker spot and has All-Pro potential no matter where he lands.

 

[GleefulGary]

"Good luck with your player comp on this one. They don't come like him. I don't think there has ever been a linebacker that has had his size and speed. You're better off comping him with a basketball player." -- NFC regional scout

 

[brandon2348]

So we should expect 4.5 at the combine?

 

[GleefulGary]

So we should expect 4.5 at the combine?

I have no idea. Personally, I'm more concerned with his 10 yd split.

All I know is on tape he's more than fast enough. I would expect that to translate to the combine, but I do not know.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers have more pressing needs than inside linebacker. With Edmunds most likely not being heads and shoulders above anyone else at #14 I would prefer Gutekunst to pass on him.

 

[Dantés]

The Packers have more pressing needs than inside linebacker. With Edmunds most likely not being heads and shoulders above anyone else at #14 I would prefer Gutekunst to pass on him.

My early sense of this class would lead me to believe that Edmunds could well be head, shoulders, knees, and toes above anyone else available unless another blue chipper happens to fall with him. But I doubt he’s there.

I agree that there are more pressing positional needs than ILB, but there are a couple objections I would raise beside. 1) This class does not appear to be all that remarkable, which means that teams who succeed in landing the best players are probably going to be those that just take the talent as opposed to their need (I’m thinking of a situation like 2013). 2) Edmunds offers unique traits and skills that don’t usually come with LB prospects. His length, size, speed, and explosive COD/closing are pretty rare traits. And he can actually be an asset in man coverage rather than a liability. Lastly, he offers legitimate upside as a pass rusher. I won’t be surprised if some 3-4 teams project him out there. He’s special.

If he made it to the Packers’ pick and they passed because he may or may not be an ILB in base defense, I would be miffed.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My early sense of this class would lead me to believe that Edmunds could well be head, shoulders, knees, and toes above anyone else available unless another blue chipper happens to fall with him. But I doubt he’s there.

I agree that there are more pressing positional needs than ILB, but there are a couple objections I would raise beside. 1) This class does not appear to be all that remarkable, which means that teams who succeed in landing the best players are probably going to be those that just take the talent as opposed to their need (I’m thinking of a situation like 2013). 2) Edmunds offers unique traits and skills that don’t usually come with LB prospects. His length, size, speed, and explosive COD/closing are pretty rare traits. And he can actually be an asset in man coverage rather than a liability. Lastly, he offers legitimate upside as a pass rusher. I won’t be surprised if some 3-4 teams project him out there. He’s special.

If he made it to the Packers’ pick and they passed because he may or may not be an ILB in base defense, I would be miffed.

I wouldn't mind the Packers selecting Edmunds as long as Gutekunst considers him the player presenting the best value at #14. It will definitely be interesting to see how he performs at the combine in a few weeks.

 

[Dantés]

I wouldn't mind the Packers selecting Edmunds as long as Gutekunst considers him the player presenting the best value at #14. It will definitely be interesting to see how he performs at the combine in a few weeks.

That’s the last piece of the puzzle for him. Though if he blows up, I think we can forget about him being there at 14.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Edmunds will probably be gone. He reminds me of Clowney in college. Just on another level of talent than everyone else.

 

[Snoops]

I Mean I love all the hype for potential draft picks I just can’t help but feel like our first round pick is gonna be a bust or take a while to develop... I want a stud someone to put in right away and play I almost hope some qb is available that someone wants and we can slide back a few slots and grab another 1st rounder out of it if someone wants a win that bad make me pay! I’m ok with that scenario

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I Mean I love all the hype for potential draft picks I just can’t help but feel like our first round pick is gonna be a bust or take a while to develop... I want a stud someone to put in right away and play I almost hope some qb is available that someone wants and we can slide back a few slots and grab another 1st rounder out of it if someone wants a win that bad make me pay! I’m ok with that scenario

The Packers wouldn't receive an additional first rounder in return to move back a few spots from #14.