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Retiring Number Four

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Packerlifer, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. TheIrishCheesehead

    TheIrishCheesehead Cheesehead

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    The #4 jersey has to be retired. No other player could possibly take up that mantle with that jersey.
    For all his flaws as a quarterback (and there were some flaws) he is most definitely among the best to ever throw the ball. He WAS a legend.

    The Brett Favre that retired, unretired and played for the Jets and then retired and unretired to play for the Minnesota Vikings to me is a disgrace. How a man can be so bitter and revenge driven is beyond me. Sure the postseason situation could have been handled better by Thompson/ McCarthy but they had made their decision to move on after Brett had told them he would retire. That is a completely logical and sensible decision to make by the managers of a football team.

    What Brett Favre has become is a terrible shame. When he returns to Lambeau Field in purple (still can't imagine it) it is going to be weird. It is simply the wrong time to retire his jersey when he is about to line out AGAINST us for a hated rival.

    When Favre's career finally comes to an end (for good) there should be a gap of about 2-4 years before we see any jersey retirement ceremony. Then it will be time to remember all the good he achieved as a Green Bay Packer.
     
  2. RJay715

    RJay715 Cheesehead

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    14-3? Are you not counting the loss in which he threw an interception in overtime in the NFC Championship despite having another receiver wide open down field?

    Yes, Favre had a great year that year. But so did the rest of the team. Ryan Grant came out of nowhere to being one of the top backs in the league that year. Not to mention Favre didn't have a torn bicep. Also, a player who gets into his upper 30's is going to have a much steeper decline in his level of play each year. It's not like he was turning 34 to 35 we're talking he is going to be 40 in a month.
     
  3. Zeppelinelite51

    Zeppelinelite51 Cheesehead

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    Now that you say that RJ... wasnt that the last play he made as a packer?



    :viksux:
     
  4. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    Well the Packers cleary wont retire number 4 maybe the NFL will :D
     
  5. Murgen

    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    Hey, Favre was a great QB for us, and although I think his Interception statistics detract heavily from his overall greatness mystique, I don't mind if they retire the number. After an appropriate waiting period once he DOES retire.

    He was the QB at the helm of the offense on a team that brought GB back into the national spotlight as a GOOD team. Before Holmgren, Wolfe, and Farve, GB was considered a tier 3 team. Can't say enough about that. GB is still getting national attention thanks to him...in good and bad ways I guess.

    I think while he has decided to join the enemy against the GB Packers, we should give 4 to the punter the day of the game against Minnyscrota. Man, that would be awesome. ROFL. Probably would piss him off, which might not be a good thing. He usually plays pretty good football when he is pissed.
     
  6. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Well, I'll be honest that I am following Brett and the Vikings nearly as closely as the Packers this season. Unlike many, I hoped and knew that Brett would end up playing again and wasn't much concerned about which team he ended up playing for. I'm certainly not going to throw away 17 years of fond memories over pride. Which current NFL player brings as much excitement, passion for the game and consistently high level of play as Brett Favre? He's one in a million, fellas, and I'm going to follow him closely no matter if he wins it all or comes up short.
     
  7. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Considering that the legends you listed were one-of-a-kind and came along at the most opportune times to have the opportunity to do what they did, then in that same vein, yes, Favre is an American legend. They tried to bury him and many still write him off, but he perseveres. Is this not one of the most important traits of all great leaders???

    Brett resurrected a franchise, made people believe and enjoyed success - in a roundabout way, much like the fellas you had listed. And, exactly as the names you mentioned, Favre's real value will probably not be known until he is gone.
     
  8. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Brett Favre is a FOOTBALL legend. Not an AMERICAN legend. You cannot say it's just sports when fans get worked up over him going to one of the biggest rival, and then comparing football to the history of the nation and the world as we know. I get the point you're trying to make, but it's just not comparable.
     
  9. America

    America Cheesehead

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    So, are you hoping that Brett helps the Vikings beat the Packers this year? Because over at footballsfuture.com you clearly said that you did hope that Favre would help the Vikings beat the Packers twice. Would you like me to post the link to that?


    I think that you confuse passion with hype. A guy like Chad Clifton who endures 4 offseason surgeries and a lengthy program of physical rehab has a lot more passion for the game that a prima donna who can't decide if he wants to play or not.

    I also think you confuse high level of play with error-riddled mediocrity, because his last 10 years could hardly be described as "high-level".
     
  10. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    This is what drives me crazy. :icon_mad: There area few "Packer" fans all giddy about Favre playing even for a divisional rival and hope he has success. Not me, no how. I do not want any of the other teams in the NFC North to have any success no matter WHO their starting QB is. Yes, we had fun for all those years when BF wore green and gold but he is no longer a Packer. As long as he wears that hideous purple getup he is no longer MY quarterback and I hope he falls flat on his keister along with the rest of those goofballs in MN. After his playing days are over things will be different, but not until then.

    :viksux: :chisux: :detsux:
     
  11. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    The way I see it is that I've got a year or two to follow Brett's final games and roughly 40-50 years left to follow the Packers after Favre becomes yesterday's news.

    The man's a living legend, pure and simple. I've seen countless people who never watched an ounce of NFL football become rabid fans after having watched Brett Favre play. I'd call that significantly inspirational.

    Look - Green Bay fields and NFL team in a city within a state I was born in. What exactly makes a particular fan choose a particular team as "their" team? Why do the majority of people from Wisconsin choose to follow the Packers when 99% of the players do not hale from Wisconsin? Not only that, but 80+% of past and present Packers players would never consider living in Wisconsin if they weren't playing for Green Bay. By the same measure you question my fanhood because I choose to follow Brett Favre in addition to the Packers, one would be justified in questioning the motives of these players. After all, they take OUR money but don't care for the environment. Should we all pick up torches and meet in the town square to conduct witch hunts???

    Again, I enjoy the hell outta watching Brett Favre conduct an NFL offense and couldn't care less which team he plays for, in the grand scheme of things.
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    People can still enjoy his play...There is nothing wrong that at all..I enjoyed watching Rice, Sanders, Montana, Riggings or whom ever your favorite player was..

    But its the ones that have said they are "Packer" fans AND wish Brett and the Vikings to beat GB..

    To me if a Packer fan said that then they are not a Packer fan..

    Pretty cut and dried to me
     
  13. PackAttackUK

    PackAttackUK Cheesehead

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    That's my story.

    I'm from the UK, and the first time I saw the Packers was when Brett demolished the Raiders after his father passed.
    Brett made me want to watch the Packers, so I did, and I have followed them ever since.
    BUT, in doing so, I became a Packers fan foremost, not just a Brett Favre fan. It just so happened he played for the Packers.
    And now that he's moved on to the Queens, I still remain a Packers fan, and always will.

    :viksux::chisux::detsux:
     
  14. America

    America Cheesehead

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    If you think Favre is a legend, American or otherwise, that's your prerogative. To assert it as a fact is not your prerogative. He's not a legend to me and I know he's not a legend to others. It's an opinion, not a fact.

    According to recent JSO polls, over 50% of Packer fans can't stand the guy right now. That means if we had a retirement ceremony today over half the people in Lambeau would be booing the guy during his own ceremony.

    But let's say that time heals all wounds, and that by the time Favre agrees to a retirement ceremony half of the people have mellowed......that'd still leave 20000 people booing him on the day we retire his jersey.

    This isn't about whether you consider him a legend or not, or whether you think he deserves it or not. This is about closure on the parts of Favre and the organization and the fans. Favre has to be willing to have it, the organization clearly wants it but over half the fan base isn't very accepting of the idea right now. And until all three parts of this triangle are ready , it isn't going to happen. Regardless of what Favre wants and the organization wants, nobody wants to have the surreal spectacle of Brett Favre being booed at Lambeau on the day his jersey is retired, not even by a relatively small percentage of the fans.

    So.....there's a lot of work to be done. People like me are going to have to be persuaded that it's time to forgive and I'm telling you flat out that if Favre wants some forgiveness he should start singing a different song than telling me I'm not a real Packer fan if I have a problem with him right now.
     
  15. dansz15

    dansz15 Cheesehead

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    I am still convinced they should give #4 to Brohm or Flynn or something since he did allow his ego, greed, and more money influence his decision. Thanks, Brett. Great memories but you crapped on them all. Des How won that Super Bowl anyway, lol.
     
  16. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Again, who cares what people write or say? If the Packers are "their" team but they enjoy watching Favre a little more at this point in time, it is their life. Let them live it and worry about yourself. Everybody takes different and personal life experiences into account when judging the Packers/Favre saga. You'll never change that in people no matter how much ill you wish on them or how much you stomp your feet and whine for them to stop.

    To take things personally in a game where few players have any allegiances to anything other than money is really kinda silly.

    In my opinion and at this point in time (in which I reserve the right to change my mind at any given point for whatever reason) the current Packers' team does not "excite" me as much as watching Favre's final games. To me, it's really that simple.
     
  17. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Uh, no you-know-what Sherlock!?!?

    Anointing anybody a "legend" is nothing but speculative and opinion-oriented in nature anyhow.

    My point was that given the relatively low bar to reach for past Americans who were deemed legends (who by the way are/were considered this by the very definition of the word "opinion"), then certainly Brett Favre with all he's done for the NFL, fans, charity and "The American Dream" for the common man would most definitely qualify him as an American legend - no doubt about it. But, then you get into the silliness of quantifying what constitutes an American legend - merely reading one-sided accounts of history and accepting it as fact? It's too difficult. But, in my mind, he's as qualified a legend as we'll ever see for the rest of our lives - believe it!

    This reminds me of one of those defining moments in my life when I was having a conversation with one of my high school girlfriends way back in the day. She was a catholic (I was not) and her grandmother had passed away. I had heard from various readings about purgatory and had asked my girlfriend whether she needed to "pray" granny outta this purgatory phenomenon. She responded that she did not because her grandmother was a "saint". This blew me completely away (man passing judgment on man without hesitation) My initial thought was, 'Oh, really? And you know this how??? God himself told you this???". It was one of those, I guess, disappointing revelations in my life that really stuck with me.

    The point being beauty - no matter what it is - is ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder.
     
  18. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Oddly, this topic isn't even discussed much in NE Wisconsin.

    Once #4 is inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame, his name and number should go up on the ring of honor, but in my opinion, no retired jersey number. I've never been a fan of individual numbers on a jersey, so this one isn't just too hard for me to digest

    To say that #4 single handedly revived an organization from the depth of despair and futility is laughable at best and a sad thought process at worst. Those of us who sat in Lambeau through the 70's and 80's witnessed first hand what despair and futility is all about. The end of the Dom Olejniczak team presidency and the entire term of Judge Parins presidency created a veritable wasteland in Green Bay. The ascension of Bob Harlan, the hiring of Ron Wolf and Wolf's hiring of Holmgren is what turned this franchise around. Granted, #4 played an integral part, all QB's do ... but were it not for Holmgren, #4 would have been teaching special ed (that's what he supposedly studied in college) in Mississippi. #4 put up BIG numbers, but ... remove Holmgren and Wolf from the equation and well, there would be no further discussion.

    I don't want to take away from his accomplishments because they are substantial - and those numbers are Hall of Fame numbers ... but, the retired numbers in the north end zone were worn by men who lived and died Green Bay Packers, and Reggie White of course, made Green Bay a viable franchise - a bit off to the right, you'll find Ron Wolf's name ... and rightly so. This is the man that truly turned the organization around and then set it on it's ear, hiring Rhodes and then recommending that Sherman be given the GM role... still and the same, I recognize #4's desire to play and his right to do so if Zigy is willing to pay him that kind of money ... that doesn't mean however that we as Packers fans owe #4 anything beyond "Hey, thanks for '93 to '98" ... he, Longwell and Sharper all made conscious decisions to play for the hated enemy (take your pick.. Vikies, Boors or Loins - they're interchangeable) and all three talked **** after they left.

    So... retired jersey number on #4?? No...I don't think so. Ring of Honor once he actually is inducted into the Hall? Sure.
     
  19. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    This is one of the better posts I've seen about #4 in a while on any Packer forum.
     
  20. Techno

    Techno Cheesehead

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    I am man a born in dallas, but chose the green bay packers as my favorite when I was four. I was surrounded by dallas fans, but I stubournly chose GB because of one man Brett Favre.

    I will always like him. I will never like what he's done in recent years, but even the greats have their downfalls and his was revenge. The horrible thing about revenge is that it often taints your reality, both ways. Brett got angry at the org for quietly bumping him out while he was still bummed about loseing to a mediocre team.

    And yes he started making lots of errors in recent years, but he also had lousy talent too, he kept trudging along hoping to get that last superbowl win, but as already mention that on his greatest year (and you must remember it was his pure determination that got them though the first 9-10 games) he lost it to the giants.


    I love the 4. I want to see fans forgive him, but I know a lot arn't for the sole reason that revenge taints people realities, and everyone has blown this WAY out of proprtion.

    Btw I may not watch the Min GB games I don't think i can take MORE ragging on my hero.
     
  21. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I for one try not to rag on #4 ... He's not a Packer anymore and frankly, short of the two games against the Pack, I could not possibly care any less about what he does for the Vikies.
     
  22. Techno

    Techno Cheesehead

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    thank you, you are one of the very few.
     
  23. shiftysdad

    shiftysdad Cheesehead

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    Like the most of you, I'm pissed right off about Favre being a queen.

    I'm even more pissed right off that they're doing very well so far.

    And through and through I am absolutely pissed right off about last Monday, and how Favre has successfully beaten every team in the NFL now.

    I think what he did was a dick move. Whether or not he wants to play football, he should realize how inappropriate it is of him to play for the rival of the team that built him.

    Regardless, he was a good Packer, no matter who else he played for. And yes, as being one of the best football players in Packers-dom, he deserves to have his number retired.
     
  24. mike bat

    mike bat Cheesehead

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    look botton line here ... we all hate the queens here ,, execpt maybee a few trolls ... but the fact of the matter is Brett wasnt done playing ball ... tt and mm didnt want him ,, the jetts didnt want him ... my point . how can we be sure the queens werent his last option to play ??? and i dont believe for one min. that he didnt wanna come back and hand MM and TT thier asses ... so for him it was a win win ,, and i dont blame him at all ... TT and MM wanted to be ***** and say the train has left the station ... if brett and queens beat us at home TT and MM will be on that train leaving green bay ,, IMO that is the best thing that could happen to the packers and fans ... bottom line ,, and what ever brett does now who really cares he isnt a packer no more ... we should be worried about this peice of **** TT and MM left us with ,, maybe we could walk away with a few more winns this season ...
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Since you revived this post... This would all be true, about him not having other options, if he hadn't choose to retire. He was still under contract in GB and in NY. And no one forced him to retire. If they did, all that happened doesn't have any validation, since there's a flaw in the formation of the action (retirement).

    Saying that they didn't want him AFTER he retired is true. But saying they didn't want him BEFORE he retired isn't, since his contract was still active. And saying that he didn't have other options is also not true, since he could simply NOT have retired, in both situations.
     

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