Restructuring of Contracts

[gbgary]

Trades, free agency, the draft.

you have to give something good to get something good and the Packers aren't deep at any position except maybe dt. your only tradeable guys are daniels, clark, and perry, in my opinion. trade one for a wr or cb. they're both positions of drastic need. fill the other position in FA. cobb's not going anywhere. he's too young, and he's a first-down-machine. a restructure is a possibility for him. jordy is too old to trade. it's restructure or release for him. clay had a pretty good year last year but he plays at a position of need so i don't think he's going anywhere...except maybe inside. FA results will tell you what they're thinking in the draft. it's gonna be interesting. if the d doesn't get fixed it'll be another frustrating year.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

What are you, some kind of f%$^*ing clown? That's what's done to replenish rosters and aquire players, or is that too big a leap for you? LOL

You mean you expect the gm to do things like manage the team and make roster moves to improve the team? Get the f outta here!

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

you have to give something good to get something good and the Packers aren't deep at any position except maybe dt. your only tradeable guys are daniels, clark, and perry, in my opinion. trade one for a wr or cb. they're both positions of drastic need. fill the other position in FA. cobb's not going anywhere. he's too young, and he's a first-down-machine. a restructure is a possibility for him. jordy is too old to trade. it's restructure or release for him. clay had a pretty good year last year but he plays at a position of need so i don't think he's going anywhere...except maybe inside. FA results will tell you what they're thinking in the draft. it's gonna be interesting. if the d doesn't get fixed it'll be another frustrating year.

Get rid of Clark, Daniels, or Perry???
No, no , no...
For one, until we actually drop Cobbcobb, Nelson, or both. We aren't thin at wr. Even if we do, we have very good depth.
Cb I'm a little more optimistic guys like king, Randall, Jones, Rollins, will look 100% better with a great def line to do their job.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Get rid of Clark, Daniels, or Perry???
No, no , no...
For one, until we actually drop Cobbcobb, Nelson, or both. We aren't thin at wr. Even if we do, we have very good depth.
Cb I'm a little more optimistic guys like king, Randall, Jones, Rollins, will look 100% better with a great def line to do their job.

The Packers definitely don't have enough depth at wide receiver to compensate for losing Nelson and/or Cobb without adding another impact player at the position. I don't expect much out of Rollins anymore going forward.

 

[Mondio]

I had hopes for Rollins, but after a nice rookie season he's been beaten down mentally and physically as much as a guy can take I think. He wasn't a blaze of glory with speed in the first place, but a pretty good athlete, and now he has to come back after an achilles rupture? How much did that take from him? He still hasn't learned to play the game. Had he been a savy vet that knows the game, I'd be more inclined to think he can find a role yet.

But he has so much to learn and even though this will be his 4th season, 2 out of the first 3 have been largely lost. i think this latest injury will definitely take some of what he had to work with physically. I don't even expect him to make the team, but if we get anything out of him or he is able to come back and be serviceable, I'll take it that's for sure. If he comes back and is more than that? He has the mental make up of a freaking champion.

 

[GleefulGary]

Very good depth at CB? Where?!

We have Randall who is good, King who could be good, and....not a lot. Rollins blows, and then between Hawkins, Brown, Waters and even more scrubs, we don't have anything. We need 3-4 good CB's. We ain't got that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Very good depth at CB? Where?!

We have Randall who is good, King who could be good, and....not a lot. Rollins blows, and then between Hawkins, Brown, Waters and even more scrubs, we don't have anything. We need 3-4 good CB's. We ain't got that.

Agreed, I will go even one step further, we don't have one proven CB on the team. I know everyone is optimistic about King, but his recurring shoulder injury scares me. Not to mention he is still very NFL green. Randall may have finished the season well, but I am still not 100% sold on the guy.

We may have a lot of players at CB on the roster, but I would trade them all for a #1 lock down CB and an average CB and fill the rest of the spots with FA's and rookies. With Joe Whitt still being their coach, I don't see a "big change" in each individual player, unless Pettine's new scheme and a better pass rush gives them some help. This is one position where I just wish the Packers would finally pull the trigger in Free Agency and stop trying to do it via the draft.

 

[GleefulGary]

Agreed, I will go even one step further, we don't have one proven CB on the team. I know everyone is optimistic about King, but his recurring shoulder injury scares me. Not to mention he is still very NFL green. Randall may have finished the season well, but I am still not 100% sold on the guy.

We may have a lot of players at CB on the roster, but I would trade them all for a #1 lock down CB and an average CB and fill the rest of the spots with FA's and rookies. With Joe Whitt still being their coach, I don't see a "big change" in each individual player, unless Pettine's new scheme and a better pass rush gives them some help. This is one position where I just wish the Packers would finally pull the trigger in Free Agency and stop trying to do it via the draft.

Exactly.

I've talked about it with Dantes before, but we're both leery of giving a guy like Randall a big contract.

He's certainly talented, but he's definitely a head case too.

I think CB should be a priority in FA and in the draft.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This is one position where I just wish the Packers would finally pull the trigger in Free Agency and stop trying to do it via the draft.

Agreed, unfortunately it seems there aren't a lot of decent options available in free agency this offseason with Malcolm Butler probably being the best one. The Packers truly missed out on Bouye last year.

 

[Half Empty]

I'm listenin' - what are the options, and how do they avoid creating other holes?

Probably has been asked before, but how can one "Disagree" with a question?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Probably has been asked before, but how can one "Disagree" with a question?

I was going to give you the big red X just for fun I think some people are offended by questions that don't follow their own personal logic.

I was taught:

There is no such thing as a stupid question. A question is a quest for knowledge and can include failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Exactly.

I've talked about it with Dantes before, but we're both leery of giving a guy like Randall a big contract.

He's certainly talented, but he's definitely a head case too.

I think CB should be a priority in FA and in the draft.

Agreed. If Randalls contract was up right now, what would you be willing to resign him for?

The Packers have to decide on his 5th year option by 3/14 and that may come at a cost between $8-9M. I think what they do will be a good indication of how far along they really think he is. My guess is they will exercise the 5th year option, mainly in the hopes of what they saw in the last half of the season is just the beginning of an improved player, but also due to the fact that they currently lack depth at CB.

 

[gbgary]

Get rid of Clark, Daniels, or Perry???
No, no , no...
For one, until we actually drop Cobbcobb, Nelson, or both. We aren't thin at wr. Even if we do, we have very good depth.
Cb I'm a little more optimistic guys like king, Randall, Jones, Rollins, will look 100% better with a great def line to do their job.

i didn't say get rid of anyone. i was talking about tradeable players. good players that we could use to bring in a good corner or wr...both positions of need. i would only trade one of the three. trade for either a wr or a corner and get the other in free agency. we really need a number one wr. in my eyes adams is a two. cobb's a three as is jordy at this point. we need a one or at least another two type.

 

[GleefulGary]

Agreed. If Randalls contract was up right now, what would you be willing to resign him for?

The Packers have to decide on his 5th year option by 3/14 and that may come at a cost between $8-9M. I think what they do will be a good indication of how far along they really think he is. My guess is they will exercise the 5th year option, mainly in the hopes of what they saw in the last half of the season is just the beginning of an improved player, but also due to the fact that they currently lack depth at CB.

I'd easy give him the 5th year.

Just scared of giving him a big contract. He'll have to earn it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know this has been pointed out before, but I still think it is the biggest factor in the discussion. Dumping one starter, especially one that has been in Green Bay their whole career, comes with some risk. We aren't talking about 3 guys who absolutely suck or this would be a no brainer. Nor are we talking about positions where we have cheaper, equally better players on the current roster.

I think most everyone agrees that Cobb, Matthews and Nelson are currently being overpaid and that restructuring and keeping them under a cheaper contract seems to be an acceptable solution by most.

So, if they aren't willing to restructure, the Packers decision is to keep, cut or trade (good luck with the 3rd).

If the Packers do decide to get rid of any of them, is that players replacement currently on the team? I would say no in the case of all 3 and that gets even trickier if they cut both Cobb and Jordy. So who do you replace them with and how much will that cost and at the end of all this how much do you save? Do we end up with a better player or a worse player? The Packers pretty much know what they have in these 3 players, so bringing a FA in is a bigger gamble IMO. We saw what happened when the Packers let Cook walk and sign Mo Bennett.

No matter what the decision is, I just hope the Packers keep their investments in all 3 players and not release any of them, until they are 100% certain they have an adequate replacement.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd easy give him the 5th year.

Just scared of giving him a big contract. He'll have to earn it.

I think I was wrong on the date of 3/14 being the date that the Packers will have to decide on the 5th year option for Randall. That appears to be a deadline for other 2018 options on current players. I can't find the date for the 5th year option, but last year it was 5/3. Which makes more sense, since it is after the draft.

While I think they will exercise it, it wouldn't shock me if they didn't. What they do in Free agency and the draft will probably be a big influence on the decision.

 

[sschind]

I know this has been pointed out before, but I still think it is the biggest factor in the discussion. Dumping one starter, especially one that has been in Green Bay their whole career, comes with some risk. We aren't talking about 3 guys who absolutely suck or this would be a no brainer.

I think most everyone agrees that Cobb, Matthews and Nelson are currently being overpaid and that restructuring and keeping them under a cheaper contract seems to be an acceptable solution by most.

So, if they aren't willing to restructure, the Packers decision is to keep, cut or trade (good luck with the 3rd).

If the Packers do decide to get rid of any of them, is that players replacement currently on the team? I would say no in the case of all 3 and that gets even trickier if they cut both Cobb and Jordy. So who do you replace them with and how much will that cost and at the end of all this how much do you save? Do we end up with a better player or a worse player? The Packers pretty much know what they have in these 3 players, so bringing a FA in is a bigger gamble IMO. We saw what happened when the Packers let Cook walk and sign Mo Bennett.

No matter what the decision is, I just hope the Packers keep their investments in all 3 players and not release any of them, until they are 100% certain they have an adequate replacement.

You and I and a few others have been saying this same thing for a while now. If we cut them sure we save a bunch of cap money but with no replacements on the roster we will have to spend a good chunk of those savings just to get back to where we are now. Sure there is a chance that the three starters we sign, at a cheaper cap hit hopefully as that is the whole point of cutting them, will be as good or even better but IMO there is an equally good chance that they will not be as good. Its usually lesser talented players who come cheaper, unless you get lucky and hit on a sleeper, so by signing cheaper players will you get the same production? IMO its a toss up and I'd hate to get worse at the position just to save a few million dollars.

I was going to give you the big red X just for fun I think some people are offended by questions that don't follow their own personal logic.

I was taught:

There is no such thing as a stupid question. A question is a quest for knowledge and can include failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.

There is no such thing as a stupid question...just stupid people who ask questions.

Seriously though if you follow the "there is no such thing as a stupid question" ideology then you obviously have never worked much with the general public, especially in a retail setting. When I had my pet store I had a 30 gallon tank set up with about 2 dozen black tetras and 2 dozen white tetras in it. Now for those of you who are not familiar with tropical fish and black tetras and white tetras in particular let me describe them to you. Black tetras are black and white tetras are white. Other than that they do look remarkably similar. A customer was standing in front of the tank staring at it for a few minutes and then he asked, in all seriousness "which ones are the white tetras? I know he was serious because when I looked at him with a quizzical expression on my face , or maybe it was a perplexed expression, come to think of it it was probably most likely a "what the hell did you just ask me" expression. He just hung his head sheepishly and started to shake it slowly from side to side. At least we both got a good laugh over it when he came around.

That said, I do agree that questions are a quest for knowledge and should not be scoffed at, in most cases anyway. Sometimes, especially in a sports related discussion, some people think of particular questions as stupid when in fact the only reason they think that is because the "obvious" answer is based solely on their own opinion and in many cases that opinion has no real facts to back it up. Someone might ask "why should we cut Nelson, Cobb and Matthews" Another will answer "Duh, we can save a ton of cap space by doing so" to this person it may be seen as a stupid question and although that is a fact that we can save cap space there is far more to it than that. Someone might think we have plenty of WR depth even if we do cut Nelson and Cobb so cutting them is a no brainer but others may think that without Nelson and Cobb or WR depth is dismal so the cap savings become less of a "duh" proposal.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Some questions are also meant to just be conversation starters. Like your Tetra guy, maybe he just wanted to start up a conversation with you. I mean how many times do we say to people "How are you doing?" Do we want them to stop and talk for 10 minutes on "how they are doing?". "What's up?" I'm not asking someone what they have been doing for the last hour. Questions can also be thought provoking statements in the form of a question. You may have an answer, but you want other peoples opinions and maybe even use them to reshape your own answer, so you put the question out there.

BTW, are you sure those were Tetras and not elephants?

 

[sschind]

Some questions are also meant to just be conversation starters. Like your Tetra guy, maybe he just wanted to start up a conversation with you. I mean how many times do we say to people "How are you doing?" Do we want them to stop and talk for 10 minutes on "how they are doing?". "What's up?" I'm not asking someone what they have been doing for the last hour. Questions can also be thought provoking statements in the form of a question. You may have an answer, but you want other peoples opinions and maybe even use them to reshape your own answer, so you put the question out there.

BTW, are you sure those were Tetras and not elephants?

I don't think I could have fit more than three maybe four elephants tops in a tank that size so yeah I am pretty sure they were tetras.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

listen to the first two minutes for something related to what you just said. Listen to the rest if you just want a really good laugh.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers have to decide on his 5th year option by 3/14 and that may come at a cost between $8-9M. I think what they do will be a good indication of how far along they really think he is. My guess is they will exercise the 5th year option, mainly in the hopes of what they saw in the last half of the season is just the beginning of an improved player, but also due to the fact that they currently lack depth at CB.

I guess the Packers will try to sign Randall to a reasonable long term deal once the new league year starts March 14.

i didn't say get rid of anyone. i was talking about tradeable players. good players that we could use to bring in a good corner or wr...both positions of need. i would only trade one of the three. trade for either a wr or a corner and get the other in free agency. we really need a number one wr. in my eyes adams is a two. cobb's a three as is jordy at this point. we need a one or at least another two type.

It's close to impossible for the Packers to receive a decent receiver or cornerback in return by trading either one of Matthews, Nelson or Cobb.

I think I was wrong on the date of 3/14 being the date that the Packers will have to decide on the 5th year option for Randall. That appears to be a deadline for other 2018 options on current players. I can't find the date for the 5th year option, but last year it was 5/3. Which makes more sense, since it is after the draft.

The deadline is May 3rd once again this offseason.

 

[gbgary]

I guess the Packers will try to sign Randall to a reasonable long term deal once the new league year starts March 14.



It's close to impossible for the Packers to receive a decent receiver or cornerback in return by trading either one of Matthews, Nelson or Cobb.



The deadline is May 3rd once again this offseason.

absolutely. i didn't say trade one them though. i said trade one of either daniels, clark, or perry. they're the only guys with any trade value. losing one wouldn't create a hardship as our draft position will allow us to fill that spot.

 

[Half Empty]

Probably has been asked before, but how can one "Disagree" with a question?

Gotta luv the coach. Disagreed with this one (a question about a question), too, again without explanation. Wondering what the disagreement is will keep me awake nights.

 

[OldSchool101]

For many reasons already stated by others, I just don't see a trade happening. I do think it's plausible we get a few deals restructured to save a smooth Million or 3.
If we can get a solid Veteran CB and an affordable guy like Adrian Clayborn to bolster our D-Line, then go into the Draft and capture a Davenport type to bring up our pass rush we'll look like a different Defense in 2018. I think we can still go out and get a formidable WR and TE day 2, especially if we get aggressive and do some trades to acquire our guy.
That still leaves us room to grab a guy to bolster the O line. Of course draft day comes and players always get picked out of the order presumed but we still have the draft capital to get some things done this year

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Very good depth at CB? Where?!

We have Randall who is good, King who could be good, and....not a lot. Rollins blows, and then between Hawkins, Brown, Waters and even more scrubs, we don't have anything. We need 3-4 good CB's. We ain't got that.

I said we have good depth at wr. And I'm optimistic #12 would put up damn near the same stats with Nelson/ Cobb, or without. That's both Nelson/Cobb gone. He would simply make someone like Allison, or Davis look like a pro bowler. Or we could bring back James Jones for another double digit Td season??? Would we need help at TE? Yes, we do either way. Would we need to run a slightly more balanced offense, with Jones/Williams/Monty running more? Probably. But not necessarily... I believe this. I also believe we kept 7 wrs last year for a reason. And I don't think we would drop both, without making wr a priority in the draft.
At cb we have a couple first and couple second rounders to build on. I'm optimistic. I didn't realize Rollins blew an Achilles tho. A little less optimistic about him...

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I know this has been pointed out before, but I still think it is the biggest factor in the discussion. Dumping one starter, especially one that has been in Green Bay their whole career, comes with some risk. We aren't talking about 3 guys who absolutely suck or this would be a no brainer. Nor are we talking about positions where we have cheaper, equally better players on the current roster.

I think most everyone agrees that Cobb, Matthews and Nelson are currently being overpaid and that restructuring and keeping them under a cheaper contract seems to be an acceptable solution by most.

So, if they aren't willing to restructure, the Packers decision is to keep, cut or trade (good luck with the 3rd).

If the Packers do decide to get rid of any of them, is that players replacement currently on the team? I would say no in the case of all 3 and that gets even trickier if they cut both Cobb and Jordy. So who do you replace them with and how much will that cost and at the end of all this how much do you save? Do we end up with a better player or a worse player? The Packers pretty much know what they have in these 3 players, so bringing a FA in is a bigger gamble IMO. We saw what happened when the Packers let Cook walk and sign Mo Bennett.

No matter what the decision is, I just hope the Packers keep their investments in all 3 players and not release any of them, until they are 100% certain they have an adequate replacement.

I admit I could go either way. Hold the Thompson core together another year, and collect a handful of high comp picks when they don't get resigned. Field the best players available next year.....

But where the math leads me...

Thompson spent his cush. Got us some splash free agents. And it blew up in everyone's faces when #12 went down. We didn't sign #12 long term yet.
Based off the salary cap topic, it said with the high end of cap being raised... we will have about 10 million cap space to retain our own free agents, and pick up any others along the way... that would bring us down to zero for carry over into next year. Thompson left us with 10 mil cap carry over from last year. If we enter next year with nothing, that means we spent 10mil over the cap in 2018... that's spending all 10mil on free agency, and giving the current team one last chance to get the ring. Worth mentioning the cap might not be raised the max amount, so 10mil might only be 8.... This would surely be followed by a total rebuild , possibly from qb, on through.

Me. I'm already over the loss of all three. Moved on. Looking at what we have left, and the roughly 44 mil in cap and a draft...First things first, give most of it to #12, and carry over as much into 2019 as possible. Get the ship going in the right direction. Trade back a half dozen times in the draft, and add 15 rookies to the roster. Make sure the oline is solid for #12s golden years. Or something close to that