NFC North Predictions

[gopkrs]

Agreed. Q will be able to concentrate on what he does best. He is fast and could certainly be part of any blitz schemes Hafley draws up. With Simmons being allowed, finally, to focus on LB, the Packers have a solid group of players at the position.

Well that would be nice. But as of now imo, I've got more faith in Hopper coming through

 

[tynimiller]

I hope you're right! I just tend to believe that 38 games of seeing him on the field is a better indication of who he is as a player versus the last six games he played last season. Again though, I hope you're right and something clicked.

Like most have said though, even in those first two seasons - kid looks special a handful of plays every single game. I don't mean this mean, but I think Quay for the most part through college was able to excel primarily by being one of the most athletic guys out there...but NFL neutralizes that to an extent except for the supremely special...in the NFL you have to not just be athletic you have to be smart and learn defenses and offensive schemes...read, digest and respond instinctively - Quay has struggled massively in this...it's why a guy like McDuffie has immense value beyond what many fans think; if you watch McDuffie he rarely makes a mistake or a bad read...his limitation isn't doing the right thing it is simply his physical limitations that get him at times....and in truth Blake Martinez was another great example, perfect read but physical limitations might mean meeting the runner at the three or four yard gain mark rather than meeting him in the hole a yard or less deep.

Quay still has plenty of time to prove he's putting it altogether, but I do think his time with GB has lapsed and we ought to enjoy him this year, because it is likely his last.

 

[Voyageur]

Like most have said though, even in those first two seasons - kid looks special a handful of plays every single game. I don't mean this mean, but I think Quay for the most part through college was able to excel primarily by being one of the most athletic guys out there...but NFL neutralizes that to an extent except for the supremely special...in the NFL you have to not just be athletic you have to be smart and learn defenses and offensive schemes...read, digest and respond instinctively - Quay has struggled massively in this...it's why a guy like McDuffie has immense value beyond what many fans think; if you watch McDuffie he rarely makes a mistake or a bad read...his limitation isn't doing the right thing it is simply his physical limitations that get him at times....and in truth Blake Martinez was another great example, perfect read but physical limitations might mean meeting the runner at the three or four yard gain mark rather than meeting him in the hole a yard or less deep.

Quay still has plenty of time to prove he's putting it altogether, but I do think his time with GB has lapsed and we ought to enjoy him this year, because it is likely his last.

I tend to agree. I think this is Walker's last year in Green Bay. His contract actually ends at the end of this season because the '26 contract was a team option that was apparently already declined. The sad part is that he's going to more than likely put up a solid year and end up getting overpaid somewhere else so the Packers won't be able to pay the amount needed to keep him home.

It puts the Packers in kind of a Catch-22. He does well, great for the team this year but say goodbye to him. If he doesn't do well, you've lost the season with a guy that you won't want to keep anyway.

Making matters worse, if he has an all-out season where he plays like an All Pro, my concern would be that if you signed him to a new contract for big bucks the production would fall off significantly because he'd have less incentive to play to get the money.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well that would be nice. But as of now imo, I've got more faith in Hopper coming through

Yeah I agree with that. Q just hasn't proven himself to be a consistent impact player, even though he has all the physical attributes.

Along with the addition of Simmons and the emergence of Cooper, a solid TC and PS from Hopper could put pressure on Q. I still think if Q focuses on run stop and pass pro he'll be fine. He can certainly be used in different blitz schemes developed by Hafley, but he can't be good at everything required of an elite LB.

Just my opinion on Q. I like the guy. The problem is that he's been asked to do too much. Until the emergence of Cooper, he had to do it all. Cooper will allow Q to do what he does best, I hope.......

 

[tynimiller]

I tend to agree. I think this is Walker's last year in Green Bay. His contract actually ends at the end of this season because the '26 contract was a team option that was apparently already declined. The sad part is that he's going to more than likely put up a solid year and end up getting overpaid somewhere else so the Packers won't be able to pay the amount needed to keep him home.

It puts the Packers in kind of a Catch-22. He does well, great for the team this year but say goodbye to him. If he doesn't do well, you've lost the season with a guy that you won't want to keep anyway.

Making matters worse, if he has an all-out season where he plays like an All Pro, my concern would be that if you signed him to a new contract for big bucks the production would fall off significantly because he'd have less incentive to play to get the money.

If Q does insanely good there is a world where you sign him and make him and rookie contract cooper your two off balls for a lock of two years time, cut McDuffie before 26’ to save some and your reserves are still Hopper and Jamon likely and some others.

But truth is if Cooper is legit as suspected, McDuffie can continue be that sure anchor backup and Hopper progress you have a room that can handle Q walking and fiscally likely better place to do it…and who knows Simmons might have a good season and finally just want to make a home and could be signed for slightly cheaper than Q cuz Q could serve as a teams #1 and Simmons is not built that way.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah I agree with that. Q just hasn't proven himself to be a consistent impact player, even though he has all the physical attributes.

Along with the addition of Simmons and the emergence of Cooper, a solid TC and PS from Hopper could put pressure on Q. I still think if Q focuses on run stop and pass pro he'll be fine. He can certainly be used in different blitz schemes developed by Hafley, but he can't be good at everything required of an elite LB.

Just my opinion on Q. I like the guy. The problem is that he's been asked to do too much. Until the emergence of Cooper, he had to do it all. Cooper will allow Q to do what he does best, I hope.......

Actually, I was saying I have more faith in Hopper coming through rather than Simmons.

 

[OldSchool101]

Just my opinion on Q. I like the guy. The problem is that he's been asked to do too much. Until the emergence of Cooper, he had to do it all. Cooper will allow Q to do what he does best, I hope.......

actually you can see that in his snap count. If memory serves he led all Defenders in the Box by Snap count. He played in near 73% of the total Defensive snap count. That’s after missing 4 contests. I guess when you draft a guy at #22 overall you expect alot. Especially at off ball LB.

In games Quay started and finished last season, he played 98%-100% in 10 of those 11 contests. That shows you the trust we have for him and the contribution he made last season.

Don’t let the passing on his 5th year option fool us. That 5th year includes OLB contracts and so it’s an inflated number for the Off Ball position. It’s highly likely Quay gets an extension in the coming weeks.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Actually, I was saying I have more faith in Hopper coming through rather than Simmons.

My bad. You made that clear in your earlier post.

I haven't paid much attention to Hopper. It seems that Simmons was played out of his natural LB spot by his last two teams, I think the Cardinals and Giants. He was the #8 selection in, I think, the 2020 draft, for what that's worth.

There does seem to be plenty of talent in the LB group. Now is the time to put it all together. It would be great if Hopper comes through while still on his rookie deal.

 

[Heyjoe4]

actually you can see that in his snap count. If memory serves he led all Defenders in the Box by Snap count. He played in near 73% of the total Defensive snap count. That’s after missing 4 contests. I guess when you draft a guy at #22 overall you expect alot. Especially at off ball LB.

In games Quay started and finished last season, he played 98%-100% in 10 of those 11 contests. That shows you the trust we have for him and the contribution he made last season.

Don’t let the passing on his 5th year option fool us. That 5th year includes OLB contracts and so it’s an inflated number for the Off Ball position. It’s highly likely Quay gets an extension in the coming weeks.

Walker certainly has played a lot, but nothing memorable to me. He probably will get extended at an AAV well below what his fifth year option would have cost. He reminds me of Blake Martinez. A lot of playing time and a lot of tackles, usually after the ball carrier had gained yards.

 

[Voyageur]

Walker certainly has played a lot, but nothing memorable to me. He probably will get extended at an AAV well below what his fifth year option would have cost. He reminds me of Blake Martinez. A lot of playing time and a lot of tackles, usually after the ball carrier had gained yards.

I think the visual test as seen by fans as to what Walker was doing out there is inaccurate. Based on the defense we run, his job was to handle containment after a runner breached the line of scrimmage to prevent the long gains. I don't think he failed at it. He led the team in tackles, and if you noted, 70% of them were unassisted, so it shows he actually was making tackles on guys who had broken containment. That would be extremely rare behind the line of scrimmage, and more often than not in the 2-to-7-yard zone beyond the line. Blake Martinez job was misconstrued just like that of Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk. Their work would never be laden with highlight reel plays. It's just grind it out in the pits and make those stops.

Yet, Walker ended up with 9 tackles for loss which tied him for 2nd on the team. I might add that for someone blitzing out of the A-gap to get a sack is not as prolific as one would think. That's the blitz that would take highest priority for an RB to handle, or a WR, in motion.

Walker and often McDuffie would line up in the A-gap on passing downs and create the illusion of a pass rush then drop into their zone of coverage downfield. Often that meant moving quickly into a somewhat deeper position beyond the LOS to hand short crossing routes and at times, so they can slide along the line to stop runners who break LOS containment. The value of this ability won't show up in stats, but to coaches, they know what it is and appreciate players who can handle this thankless job.

Above all, don't undersell Walker and/or McDuffie. Both are contributors out there and it's often unseen by most people.

2024 Green Bay Packers Defensive Tackles Stats & Leaders - NFL Defense Stats | FOX Sports

View 2024 Green Bay Packers Defensive Tackles Stats and team leaders.

www.foxsports.com

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think the visual test as seen by fans as to what Walker was doing out there is inaccurate. Based on the defense we run, his job was to handle containment after a runner breached the line of scrimmage to prevent the long gains. I don't think he failed at it. He led the team in tackles, and if you noted, 70% of them were unassisted, so it shows he actually was making tackles on guys who had broken containment. That would be extremely rare behind the line of scrimmage, and more often than not in the 2-to-7-yard zone beyond the line. Blake Martinez job was misconstrued just like that of Nick Barnett and A.J. Hawk. Their work would never be laden with highlight reel plays. It's just grind it out in the pits and make those stops.

Yet, Walker ended up with 9 tackles for loss which tied him for 2nd on the team. I might add that for someone blitzing out of the A-gap to get a sack is not as prolific as one would think. That's the blitz that would take highest priority for an RB to handle, or a WR, in motion.

Walker and often McDuffie would line up in the A-gap on passing downs and create the illusion of a pass rush then drop into their zone of coverage downfield. Often that meant moving quickly into a somewhat deeper position beyond the LOS to hand short crossing routes and at times, so they can slide along the line to stop runners who break LOS containment. The value of this ability won't show up in stats, but to coaches, they know what it is and appreciate players who can handle this thankless job.

Above all, don't undersell Walker and/or McDuffie. Both are contributors out there and it's often unseen by most people.

2024 Green Bay Packers Defensive Tackles Stats & Leaders - NFL Defense Stats | FOX Sports

View 2024 Green Bay Packers Defensive Tackles Stats and team leaders.

www.foxsports.com

Thanks for that thorough reply V. I certainly trust your analysis and see why Walker isn't a "****" impact LB - but he certainly makes a big contribution to the run D. And I take for granted routine football skills like wrapping up and tackling. We are quick to note when a player lacks that ability (JA) and slower to recognize the skill in others (Q).

I wonder though why these guys go in round one. Stopping and slowing the run consistently are huge, and usually when Gluten picks he's taking the BPA and balancing that with the needs of the team.

That the team didn't pick up his fifth-year option tells me they want to keep him but at a more reasonable price than the FYO would provide.

Overall I really like the makeup of the LB group. Cooper's emergence as a guy the D has to account for makes the jobs of the other players on D easier. I expect Q will become a better player, Simmons may finally realize his potential at LB - and gopkrs noted that Hopper looks ready to take on a bigger role. There is a lot to like with this group.

(BTW I appreciate your diplomacy. You wrote - "I think the visual test as seen by fans as to what Walker was doing out there is inaccurate." instead of - "Joe, you're full of ****." That's a very nice touch and I wish we all used that approach more. Well done!)

 

[Voyageur]

(BTW I appreciate your diplomacy. You wrote - "I think the visual test as seen by fans as to what Walker was doing out there is inaccurate." instead of - "Joe, you're full of ****." That's a very nice touch and I wish we all used that approach more. Well done!)

I would never insult you. I may joke with you about something but never an insult. As far as your analysis it was solid and based on stats and honest perceptions. You never throw out idiotic theories. In fact, the vast majority of the posters on these boards are thoughtful and respect each other. Those that don't seem to find themselves on the outside looking in which is the way it should be.

 

[Pkrjones]

That the team didn't pick up his fifth-year option tells me they want to keep him but at a more reasonable price than the FYO would provide.

Quay Walker's 5th year option cost was $14.751mil as he hit the playtime level. That number is calculated by the average salary over the past 5 years of the 3rd thru 20th highest salaries at Linebacker. ALL linebackers are included, Edge Rushers as well as Inside Linebackers.

Currently the 3rd highest paid Edge Rusher is Maxx Crosby @ $35.5mil/yr and the 20th is Odeyingbo @ $16mil. The 3rd highest salary at Inside LB is aedmunds @ $18mil and 20th is Wilson @ $9mil. HUGE disparity between current ILB vs Edge salaries, so Gute should be able to extend Walker for considerably less than the 5th year price, IMHO. My guess? 4yr/$25mil

 

[tynimiller]

Quay Walker's 5th year option cost was $14.751mil as he hit the playtime level. That number is calculated by the average salary over the past 5 years of the 3rd thru 20th highest salaries at Linebacker. ALL linebackers are included, Edge Rushers as well as Inside Linebackers.

Currently the 3rd highest paid Edge Rusher is Maxx Crosby @ $35.5mil/yr and the 20th is Odeyingbo @ $16mil. The 3rd highest salary at Inside LB is aedmunds @ $18mil and 20th is Wilson @ $9mil. HUGE disparity between current ILB vs Edge salaries, so Gute should be able to extend Walker for considerably less than the 5th year price, IMHO. My guess? 4yr/$25mil

To be fair I almost assumed he might do the Love trick and did an extension for the fifth spreading same money on 25’ and 26’ but split between the two or close type deal. In truth they could still do something like that.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Quay Walker's 5th year option cost was $14.751mil as he hit the playtime level. That number is calculated by the average salary over the past 5 years of the 3rd thru 20th highest salaries at Linebacker. ALL linebackers are included, Edge Rushers as well as Inside Linebackers.

Currently the 3rd highest paid Edge Rusher is Maxx Crosby @ $35.5mil/yr and the 20th is Odeyingbo @ $16mil. The 3rd highest salary at Inside LB is aedmunds @ $18mil and 20th is Wilson @ $9mil. HUGE disparity between current ILB vs Edge salaries, so Gute should be able to extend Walker for considerably less than the 5th year price, IMHO. My guess? 4yr/$25mil

Wow, I didn't realize the disparity between Edge and LB. I think Micah Parsons is technically a LB but he sure plays like an Edge guy, from anywhere across the line or defensive backfield. I thought his salary was now being renegotiated.

Back to Q - 4 yr/$25 mil would be a helluva deal for GB. He's not flashy but he is good at run stop and coverage. At $14 mil plus, it's no wonder GB turned down the FYO.

I remember when Blake Martinez left GB for the NYG he got $10 mil/yr. Im not gonna guess where he lands because I don't know enough about LB salaries. I do hope GB finds a way to keep him and I'm sure they will. This might be a big year for him with all the other starting talent at LB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I would never insult you. I may joke with you about something but never an insult. As far as your analysis it was solid and based on stats and honest perceptions. You never throw out idiotic theories. In fact, the vast majority of the posters on these boards are thoughtful and respect each other. Those that don't seem to find themselves on the outside looking in which is the way it should be.

You're a gentleman V, plain and simple.

I agree that the participants here are pretty civil, with differing opinions accepted without a lot of personal conflict. It seems to have been this way ever since Capt Wimm departed the ranks of the Packer forum.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I agree....My boy Voy is a gentleman.....
But can also be a mad lad savage.....lol.

 

[rmontro]

I would never insult you. I may joke with you about something but never an insult. As far as your analysis it was solid and based on stats and honest perceptions. You never throw out idiotic theories. In fact, the vast majority of the posters on these boards are thoughtful and respect each other. Those that don't seem to find themselves on the outside looking in which is the way it should be.

I really dislike the idea of insulting people on message boards, so I'm with you on that. Should be no different than in real life, but some people see anonymity as an excuse to act like a *******. Some of the political boards I'm on, the behavior is truly disgusting. Something about politics brings out the worst in people. I guess that's why it's not considered an appropriate topic for polite conversation.

 

[gopkrs]

I really dislike the idea of insulting people on message boards, so I'm with you on that. Should be no different than in real life, but some people see anonymity as an excuse to act like a *******. Some of the political boards I'm on, the behavior is truly disgusting. Something about politics brings out the worst in people. I guess that's why it's not considered an appropriate topic for polite conversation.

Yeah. My grandfather told me don't talk religion or politics. Unfortunately it's taken me way too long to actually put that into practice.

 

[Voyageur]

Yeah. My grandfather told me don't talk religion or politics. Unfortunately it's taken me way too long to actually put that into practice.

We all learn respect in our own time. If we want to be given respect we show respect first. It's actually contagious.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

It's very true I play a lot of online poker and the guys love the anonymity and the ability to just say whatever they want and sometimes they are quite disgusting.....
But if you act like a gentleman and show nothing but respect eventually they realize how stupid they're being and become humans again......

 

[Heyjoe4]

I really dislike the idea of insulting people on message boards, so I'm with you on that. Should be no different than in real life, but some people see anonymity as an excuse to act like a *******. Some of the political boards I'm on, the behavior is truly disgusting. Something about politics brings out the worst in people. I guess that's why it's not considered an appropriate topic for polite conversation.

I subscribe to the Athletic, which covers all sports. The trolling on there is awful, and of course, anonymous. The trolls even attack very non-controversial comments. I like reading most comments, but the trolling keeps me from commenting much myself.

 

[rmontro]

I subscribe to the Athletic, which covers all sports. The trolling on there is awful, and of course, anonymous. The trolls even attack very non-controversial comments. I like reading most comments, but the trolling keeps me from commenting much myself.

Oddly, some of the toxicity that you see in politics is also present in sports fandom. Witness the unpleasant incident of an Eagle fan's disgusting comments toward a female Packer fan last year at Lincoln Financial Field. But in the sports worlds, such comments are supposedly meant all in fun and are supposed to be taken good naturedly. I've never liked it though.

 

[Voyageur]

Oddly, some of the toxicity that you see in politics is also present in sports fandom. Witness the unpleasant incident of an Eagle fan's disgusting comments toward a female Packer fan last year at Lincoln Financial Field. But in the sports worlds, such comments are supposedly meant all in fun and are supposed to be taken good naturedly. I've never liked it though.

Many years ago, a bunch of us would go to Packer games when they played in Minnesota. We had at least 6, often as many as 12 seats for the games. It was a closely knit group and fairly consistent.

Once, when one of our members couldn't make it, he gave his ticket to his brother-in-law who went with us. The guy was a real piece of work. He had a foul mouth and was as obnoxious as they get. All of us kept telling him to cut it out because he was going to destroy the game for all of us. He pretty much told us to stick it.

He ended up going to get a beer at the Met and got himself arrested for getting into a fight. One of the cops came to us and said they had him and we could pick him up and take him after the game when we could post bond for disorderly conduct. We just laughed and told them to keep him. We weren't posting the bond. After the game we went home and left him in Bloomington. Needless to say, we were very careful as to who was allowed to take the tickets after that.

 

[milani]

Oddly, some of the toxicity that you see in politics is also present in sports fandom. Witness the unpleasant incident of an Eagle fan's disgusting comments toward a female Packer fan last year at Lincoln Financial Field. But in the sports worlds, such comments are supposedly meant all in fun and are supposed to be taken good naturedly. I've never liked it though.

Philly fans had a reputation of being like that back to the days of the old Vet stadium. I would hope it has changed. Back in the days of the old AOL Boards some of the posters that were the nastiest were on the Eagle board. Although there were some that were professional and respectable.