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Next year thoughts ??? Lol

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by SUGAMAN44, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. LambeauLombardi

    LambeauLombardi Cheesehead

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    I didn't discuss Wilkerson because he was playing great but an unfortunate play ended his season so I won't count that as a good or bad move for Gute, just bad luck all around.

    As far not being able to put a good enough team around Rodgers and Mack's contracts... I disagree. First off and the most important point in this post is that the only player that remains from the 2015 draft is Jake Ryan and he won't demand much money if we decide to keep him. We won't have to worry about the 2016 picks really until next offseason, but the only guy worth big money now is Kenny Clark. Blake Martinez and Kyler Fackrell could also be a possibility but there is a lot that can happen from now until the end of the 2019 season.

    The contracts all expire for Cobb, Clay, and Marcedes after this year and for Bulaga, Tramon and Daniels after 2019. In addition HOPEFULLY Perry the Fairy (2021 expired) and Graham (2020 expired) are just removed from the team somehow. By then you'd figure that'd give us more than enough money to retain Clark, Blake, and Fackrell to kick off the 2020 season if we decided to do so. This team is left with whoever you want to keep between Clark, Blake, and Fackrell to go along with Aaron Rodgers, Khalil Mack, Davante Adams, Linsley, and Lane Taylor as the only non-rookie deals for the 2020 season. Those guys get paid a decent amount, but you can't tell me there isn't cap flexibility outside of these guys.

    For the 2021 season, this would leave Aaron Rodgers, Khalil Mack, and Davante Adams as the only guys (as of today) on contract to go along with all the potential moves they make I discussed in the last paragraph. You then would extend who you would like from the 2017 class, which regardless is too early for any person to predict what will happen to those guys/how good they'll be 3 years from now. I didn't major in mathematics, but to say it's impossible to financially build a team around Rodgers, Mack, and Adams for the next 4 years is just wrong. Just needed to find a way to get rid of Matthews/Cobb before the 2018 season started. Only point you would have is adding Mack would stop you from adding other big time free agents over the next 3 years, which I could give a rats *** if you have these 3 guys as your building blocks.
     
  2. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    There's no doubt the Packers could have afforded to fit Mack's deal under the salary cap but it would have been awfully tough to build a competitve team around him and Rodgers going forward.

    In addition you completely ignore the fact that the Raiders possibly asked for even more draft compensation in return from the Packers because they expected them to finish ahead of the Bears.
     
  3. LambeauLombardi

    LambeauLombardi Cheesehead

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    I guess only the management of the Raiders and Packers know how much more the Raiders wanted in return. Unless it was an additional 1st and 2nd-3rd rounder (to go along with the 2019 1st rounders), sign me up 10/10 times.
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    You should consider the Raiders record with Mack as a cautionary tale that having an elite player on defense doesn't automatically result in wins. Especially when a team is paying quarterback money for him.
     
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  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's a reasonable pick list, more or less, but it would be hard to say all of them. I'd suggest maybe half a dozen differences, but with 6 games to go there are still ample opportunities for lights to go on, players to shine, or players to tank or get injured.

    I was not crazy about the free agent signings this past off season, grizzled vets on the decline as perceived factors in getting over the top. Signing Graham, and then signing his blocking caddy in Lewis for another $2 mil, a guy who is hardly being used, seemed in particular to be excessive spending. Williams, House, Wilkerson...more backing and filling...while holding on to Cobb and Matthews. Taken together, this approach did not look like the makings of a championship roster but I do understand the impulse to stay competitive. There was a lot of cap expended in those decisions in getting to this point.

    What I would not want to see is a replay of that approach. If the Packers are going to venture into FA, as Gutekunst says he will, I'd want to see that confined to one or two second contract players. If that means working toward 2020 with two more drafts, so be it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    In the Mack woulda-shoulda-coulda equation, had the Packers signed him to the same contract as the Bears and cut Matthews to get the needed cap space, currently the Packers would be about $7 mil under the cap, current cap commitments for guys under contract for 2019 would be a whopping $175 mil for 42 players, and the Packers would have had to surrender their two 2019 first round picks plus additional considerations.

    It would have been a 2019-or-bust move. Does anybody really think Mack for Matthews would have made this a championship caliber team? I don't. And the consequences of that failure would be little cap flexibility going foward while trying to stack drafts without the first round picks and other considerations.

    I don't believe Gutekunst's interest in making this deal got very far. I sure hope not.

    By the way, consider Aaron Donald's contract, nearly as sizeable as Mack's. He's a great player, having another great season once he shook off the rust from the holdout. And yet the Rams can't keep opponents off the scoreboard. They're in "just outscore 'em" mode anyway illustrating that one great player is not going to cure all that ails.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
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  7. swhitset

    swhitset Cheesehead

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    While I agree with your post... it certainly isn’t a reason to get excited about him sticking around lol.
     
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  8. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Well, in that case Breeland hopefully will be able to step up his game should his health improve for next season.
     
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  9. shockerx

    shockerx Cheesehead

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    Looking at what we have thats GOOD. players only...my top 5 each side of the ball.

    Offense 1 Rodgers 2 Bak 3 Adams 4 Linsley 5 Jones 5a Graham MVS yesBulaga 2019 draft we need early OT G


    Defense 1 Clark 2 Alexander 3 Daniels 4 Martinez 5 Frackrell 5a perryugh lowery king#@$% 2019 draft we need early EDGE DL S ILB

    this is a draft for the big boys, I think a guard or two will really help Rodgers out...look at colts. On D front 7..best you can find!

    * clay cobb our gone
     
  10. gonzozab

    gonzozab Cheesehead

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    Exactly. This is Teddy thinking.
     
  11. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Unfortunately Graham hasn't performed up to his contract. While Fackrell leads the team in sacks he hasn't been able to consistently pressure opposing quarterback.

    You aren't talking about the Packers having the best front seven on defense, do you???
     
  12. shockerx

    shockerx Cheesehead

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    No No No...im saying this off season go and find the best top talent front 7 guys you can...via draft trade and free agency...we need all the above...EDGE interior OL and ILb.
     
  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Mostly agreed but I don't consider inside linebacker a top priority next offseason.
     
  14. G0P4ckG0

    G0P4ckG0 Cheesehead

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    Trade our 1st round picks for future picks that can be used as trade bait to move up in the critical draft where we select the next franchise QB in a few years (while he sits behind Rodgers for a couple years). No point in drafting high this year, or at all, especially if we get a new head coach. A new coach will take a year to get used to the current players and find out what draft acquisitions will best suit the team.
     
  15. thequick12

    thequick12 Cheesehead

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    This season is certainly not over until they lose one more game and even then not mathmaticly. Although it seems highly unlikely at this point make no mistake about this is a very talented team and a soft late season schedule could help them get on a roll.
    I expect a sort of statement game for this team against the Cardinals at lambeau. Look for a cover of the 14 point spread by the Packers. Then I think it's big they have back to back home games that gives them a very good chance to win 2 in a row for the first time this season. Then you got the bears at solidier field which to me is the make or break game if they win that one on the road getting that first road win for this team will be big and that'd be 3 in a row. At that point they'd likely be playing so good that they'd have a great shot of winning the last two. At the Jets who aren't any good and then the Lions who are even worse at lambeau. It all seems very realistic to me when you take time to think about it logically.
    However I still like to think about next season and the draft fa etc. I don't think they should nessicarily cut Bulaga. I think they should attempt to draft an olinemen that can start at right tackle or guard early on in the draft. If that player ends up being a tackle maybe you cut Bulaga. But even then I'd attempt to restructure him as he would provide excellent veteran depth. Matthews and Cobb are free agents so I think they're both gone. Certainly Cobb is as he just can't stay healthy and has lost a step. As for Matthews I could see him back on a team friendly deal as a situational guy. If perhaps the market for him is non existent. But you gotta draft two edge guys in the first 4 rounds and maybe even sign one as a fa as well. I do like clowney but doubt Houston let's him go. Jimmy Graham should 100 be retained. They're is no logical replacement for him at this point. And he is having a pretty good season as packer tight ends go. But I think you draft one like Irv Smith Jr Alabama high to hopefully be your starter in 2020. At the same time see what you have in Robert tonyan. As for Nick Perry, I'm a bit confused on his cap situation. I keep reading in here that it would cost 11 million in dead money to cut him and they'd save only 3 million or so. But on ESPN I read that if they cut him before his roster bonuses is due on like the 2nd day of the league year and designate him a post June 1st cut they save 11 million against the cap. If that's true than definitely cut him and save the 11 m. If the former is true I'd keep him because at a savings of only 3.6 m it's better to have Perry. As you aren't gonna sign anyone as good as him for 3 m. I also think they should draft a safety high. I do like Earl Thomas and think if he's healthy they should make a serious run at him in free agency
     
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  16. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

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    Appreciate your list and don't disagree with most of it. Why cut Boyle ~ he's cheap, smart, athletic and has a cannon arm. Gute learned from TT's mistake on cutting Taysom Hill in '17 that an athletic developmental QB is gold.
    Not sure what trade value Kizer will have but showcasing him these last 5 games would be a smart move (McCarthy making a smart move??). Kizer, if he's learned anything this year on the bench and has gotten over his '17 shell-shock, only costs $914k in '19 so keeping both QB's behind AR isn't a bad idea if it happens.
     
  17. Pkrjones

    Pkrjones Cheesehead

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    - We've seen how Graham affects the offense, and IMHO it isn't worth the $11Mil SB & $2.3Mil salary/bonuses in '18, nor the $12.667 Mil in '19. Hopefully Tonyan has learned a lot waiting in the wings and can give GB the same (or better) 3 catches for 45 yds. that Graham has produced this year. Add a big, fast rookie TE in later rounds & cut Graham, take the $7.33Mil dead $ hit and save the $5.33Mil cap.
    - Cutting Perry leaves $11Mil dead cap money because of his $3.7Mil pro-rated SB. Post 6/01 designation would (I believe) then include the workout bonus of $400k and would leave a '19 dead money of roughly $4.1Mil and '20 dead money of $7.4mil... why spread it out? Rip the band-aid off, take the entire hit and move on, IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  18. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    Graham will be retained, and another season will probably make him more productive. Lewis is probably going to retire, he was pretty much retired after last year but they talked him out of it. Kendricks probably won't be back, if he is it will be cheap and probably a 1 year type thing. We're not going to head into the season with Tonyan at TE. I would be very surprised if Graham isn't around. They didn't invest that much into him to give him one season.
     
  19. PackinMSP

    PackinMSP Cheesehead

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    Where do you all see this team next year?

    Let's assume the secondary gets healthy, so
    Alexander
    King
    Jackson

    (Free Safety)
    Jones/Brice

    We have holes at WR, OG, RT, LOLB, ROLB, S

    So what do we do?
    Sign Tate to fill the role Cobb was supposed to do but wasn't consistent enough
    Sign Collins/Mathiau to play one of the S spots, let Jones/Brice battle out the other spot

    Draft OLB, RT in 1st round
    Take TE in Round 2 or 3
    Draft a middle round OG, seems to usually work for the Packers

    That still maybe "barely" looks like an 11 win team

    Thoughts?
     
  20. Half Empty

    Half Empty Cheesehead

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    It's been a rough year, but I still see the team in Green Bay next year.
     
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  21. Poppa San

    Poppa San Meh Staff Member Moderator

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    Punt when behind on 4th and 2 at midfield with 200 seconds left in the game?
    NO, not really
    No, we don't need to overpay for an older declining vet at a position you just spent 3 draft picks on and none have the stench of a complete washout on them yet and you expect an entirely new offensive staff and scheme to use them
    This wasn't on your need list three paragraphs ago but I wouldn't be upset if it happened.
    They do this just about every year so this is not going out on the limb very far.

    I don't and can't see drafting a RT in the first round. LT sure. One that fails at LT to become RT? no. One that beats out Bakh and moves him to LT? I'd love it just because an upgrade there would be at Joe Thomas level and I couldn't fault that.
     
  22. FL-PACKERfan

    FL-PACKERfan Cheesehead

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    I would cut Bulaga, Perry, Crosby.

    Resign Wilkerson, Breeland, Allison, and Ryan. As long as the price is right with them.

    Would sign a safety, Edge, OG/OT in free agency.

    Draft Edge with our pick and OG/OT with the Saints pick. Would then add another safety,WR/TE, and ILB in 2-4.

    Would draft a kicker late and sign one in offseason to compete for K job.
     
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  23. swhitset

    swhitset Cheesehead

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    This needs clarification... i’m not following the reasoning. Bahktierri is considered to be one of the best left tackles in the league. You think the Packers are going to draft someone to beat him out...? and then want to move him to Where he already is?... or do you mean the new guy? To Lt and Bahk to right? I can’t figure out a scenario here that makes sense or that I agree with...
     
  24. Poppa San

    Poppa San Meh Staff Member Moderator

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    The last one. Draft a guy to beat out Bakh @ LT and move Bakh to RT. Otherwise, don't draft an OL in round 1.
     
  25. shockerx

    shockerx Cheesehead

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    You have to draft OL early! if you pick up a top 3 LT....he can play RT till something goes wrong...ugh with Bak. Bulaga has another year left he can be depth basically moving down spriggs depth order. Read between the line a little... look at Rodgers jitters in the pocket...he does not trust his OL! he needs top level player there, not a 4th rounder. this team has to be rebuilt by offensive and defensive lines. 32 pick would be fine if a top 3 OL falls to you.
     

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