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News and updates from the Combine

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by all about da packers, Feb 24, 2007.

  1. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    I don't put too much stock in it, but the fact is scouts do. I'm hoping Lynch runs worse than a 4.4 so he falls to us.
     
  2. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    It's still of value.

    If Jarret is running a 4.75 without pads on, how much slower will he get with the pads on?

    If I remember correctly, Bubba's 40 time wasn't too good either. We've come to realize he is slower than a turtle out there.

    40 times can indicate the type of player any player will be. In the case of the Packers, they need a speed burner to stretch the field, and they'll be looking at 40 times accordingly.

    You obviously don't want a 4.7 or 4.8 CB.


    For some positions, like QB and O-linemen, I can agree that 40 times aren't as important as they are made out to be. IF you are asking your o-lineman to run 40 yards down the field in a real game, there is something really wrong.
     
  3. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    im glad you're not the gm
     
  4. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    Wow, Brian Leonard just ran it in 4.49. For a 230 pounder with 28 bench reps, that's fantastic.
     
  5. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    4.52 for Marshawn Lynch!

    I'm celebrating, if he keeps this up he'll fall to us for sure.
     
  6. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Damn.

    Leonard is faster than I thought. So much for making him a FB.
     
  7. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    I'm really hoping Lynch is gone by 16. I'd rather have Meachem fall to us, and then find Lorenzo Booker in the 2nd.
     
  8. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    If he catches well and appears to make good cuts, he could seriously jump into late 1 as a HB prospect. That 40 was impressive.

    EDIT: To specify, this post is about Leonard
     
  9. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I think Ginn will remain #2 because of his ability to return kicks and he's also probably faster but Meachem just came out of nowhere and I think he leaped both Jarrett and Bowe. Possible Top 20 pick now. He made a lot of money today.
     
  10. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    So, do you guys think Meachem would be a reach at 16? I think Booker would be a reach with our 2nd round pick, but I wouldn't mind waiting till then to draft our RB.
     
  11. kmac

    kmac Cheesehead

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    Adam Schefter said that the Browns are going to take Peterson because RB is a safer pick, based on the numbers of hits and misses among the top 2 QBs in the draft historically.

    Look up and tell me the ratio of hits and misses for RBs since 1982 (how far back the NFL.com history page goes). I'll bet anyone $100 it's within 3 of the QBs.
     
  12. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    Booker could be around in the 3rd from some things I've read, the fact that Brian Leonard outran Marshawn Lynch makes me want him in the second, Leonard might not even make it to the 40's in the draft now...it's tough to imagine a Mike Alstott-type runner with an added half a step, I hope we can find a way to draft him
     
  13. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Booker isn't going to be an everydown back. People bring up Maurice Jones-Drew when defending Booker but Drew has at least 20 pounds of muscle on him. I like Booker as well and I think he'd be a nice fit for any team but not as a #1 future RB. I rather have Lynch anyday.

    Meachem at 16 probably wouldn't be a reach. I think better players will be on the board but after watching Meachem today I see no reason why I'd be upset with the Packers for selecting him at 16.
     
  14. millertime

    millertime Cheesehead

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    i agree. but a 4.7 40 is slow. i ran a 4.7 in high school and i was a pot head back then. lol...
     
  15. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Same here :rotflmao:
     
  16. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    maybe he had to **** or something. or maybe he did that on purpose, to lower his stock so he can sign with a team he has already talked to.
     
  17. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    And lose million of dollars in the process.
     
  18. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    why am i discussing this, and giving validity that GMs care about the 40, when most say it isn't much to them. his 'horrible' 'bad' 40 time wont effect him in 1 way, or more importantly, 1 cent.
     
  19. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Are you kidding me?

    Some people off the street might believe the 40 is meaningless and at some positions it is but none the less it has a huge status on draft stock. Robert Meacham is the most recent example. His 4.39 official 40 is going to make him a lot of money. Before that time he wasn't expected to go very high. Probably late 1st at best. Now he could climb into the top 20. Greg Olsen ran a 4.51 official 40 and is now the consensus #1 TE over Zach Miller. By your logic Olsen's 40 has 0 effect and he must've been a 1st rounder to begin with.

    Last year Manny Lawson was a 2nd round pick and ran a sub 4.5 and went in the top 25 because of it. Troy Williamson went in the top 10 to the Vikings over Mike Williams because of the 40 in 2005. That same year Demarcus Ware saw his stock rise because of his athletic ability and the 40 being one of the reasons.

    You can say the 40 is overrated if you want. That's not a stretch at all. However to say it doesn't effect the Draft is as inaccurate as it gets.

    If Dwayne Jarrett runs a 4.75 like it's being reported it's going to effect him in a huge way. Players drop because of the 40 all the time. If it was as meaningless as you state then they wouldn't waste anytime running it.
     
  20. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    yeah its going to effect him in a big way, like Vince Youngs wonderlic score effected things for him. wow does he suck and got no payday.

    40 and wonderlic score = more useless than my sisters boyfriend
     
  21. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Please explain to me how the wonderlic and 40 have anything to do with each other? They're completely different things. One tests speed and is a physical activity the other is pure mental.

    Vince Young has a bad wonderlic and goes top 3 and that's how your going to support your idea that the 40 is meaningless?
     
  22. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    the wonderlic tests mental like the 40 tests football ability is my point. they don't

    A lot of GMs dont really care much about the 40 time, but you do, and well thats what matters I guess.

    but since you want to call me out about "supporting" my opinion (which is becoming more and more adopted as fact, but I wont go there and pull a pack66), let me do a simple google search.

    1 minute later

    ok, back.


    Boldin ran a 4.7
    Based on that one drill, scouts often make up their minds about a guy in a matter of one one-hundredth of a second. Sometimes, however, the 40 time doesn't say as much about a particular player as scouts would like it to because, as Brandt points out, "some players carry a uniform better than others."

    Take Arizona Cardinals wide receiver Anquan Boldin. At Florida State, Boldin earned a reputation as one of the nation's deadliest weapons. He led his squad in receiving and touchdowns as a junior in 2002, and had displayed everything on game film that scouts tend to look for.

    But when he recorded times above 4.7 in the 40-yard dash at the combine, a time well above NFL standards for a wide receiver, Boldin paid the price. Arizona picked him midway through the second round of the 2003 draft after five other wide receivers had been selected, including Bryant Johnson, who went to Arizona in the first round. However, Boldin proved the critics wrong and went on to earn Associated Press Offensive Rookie of the Year honors after catching 101 passes for 1,377 yards.

    "I think the testing is overrated. I think the bottom line should be what you did on the film," says Boldin. "All of the 40 times, all of the shuttles, that doesn't mean much to me. If you put me on a field, no matter who you put in front of me, I'm going to perform. And I had the film to back that up."

    -----------------------------------------------------

    In that article, which presents both views, you will find that Ron Wolf puts a lot of stock in the 40, which is fine, it is an old school mentality that hopefully gets weeded out.

    Also, since the 40 time is SO important, you might want to go tell Emmit Smith, Zach Thomas, Devin Hester, and a list of others that they aren't fast, because they ran bad 40 yard dashes themselves.

    There is so much more to scouting a player(Wr included) than the 40 yard dash.

    There, I think I supported my idea well enough.
     
  23. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    What round did Boldin go in?

    Round 2. He was the 54th pick in the NFL Draft.

    The 40 doesn't decide on whether the player will be good or not. Nobody says that. Heck the Draft doesn't decide that. However the 40 does play a big role in where you end up going in the Draft especially for a WR. Boldin ran a 4.7 and went in round 2 and that alone proves my point.

    To say the 40 won't effect Jarrett's draft stock at all is just wrong. I personally think Jarrett is going to be a good player and probably a Draft Day Steal. I believe he's the 3rd best WR in the Draft and still a 1st round pick. Draft status or draft stock has nothing to do on whether Jarrett will be a good player in the NFL. It tells you where the player rates as a prospect and a 4.7 40 (if it holds up to be true at his proday) will drop him in the Draft. He could go from a potential top 20 pick to a teams like Green Bay, San Francisco, or Carolina to a late 1st round pick to Kansas City, New York Jets, or Philadelphia. That’d cost him a lot of money as well so I hardly think he’s not trying when he runs like you had suggested earlier.

    Believe me I know every little detail when it comes to scouting a prospect. Jarrett is far from the perfect prospect. He‘s a slow player. He has great hands and goes up and gets the ball at it‘s highest peak but he has poor agility and isn’t that physical of a guy. If you press him and get in his face he has trouble getting off the ball.

    I’m not saying the 40 is the only thing to use when evaluating talent but it does help separate prospects from one another. Example: Brian Caulhon, Joseph Addai and Maurice Jones-Drew were on a very similar level heading into the combine last year. Jones-Drew and Addai ran great at the combine and Caulhon did not. One could argue that they all were very similar in every other drill except the speed drills. The result. Addai went in round 1. Jones-Drew in round 2 and Caulhon in round 3.

    After Calvin Johnson all of the receivers are fighting for that #2 spot. Jarrett is probably the most well known name but he hasn’t done anything since he declared to enter the NFL Draft. Ted Ginn will workout at his proday and he’s hardly someone who won’t look good on paper. Dwayne Bowe had a fantastic Senior Bowl week. Robert Meacham had a fantastic combine. All that has happen while Jarrett has reportedly ran a 4.7 40 in prior workouts. That’s going to hurt his draft stock.

    For the record Devin Hester ran in the 4.4’s. That’s hardly slow. He was a 2nd round pick because he was mainly a kick returner. Did he do anything else besides return kicks? Not much. Zach Thomas wasn’t a high pick either.
     
  24. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    with vince youngs(wonderlic) and boldins becoming more common and common (good in college, but failed horribly in a STUPID test), you will see how useless it is, and how it won't be held in such high regards by more and more general managers (thats already started to happen).
     
  25. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 40 I believe and they didn't change for him so I hardly believe they'll change now.

    The wonderlic is important to some coaches. Mooch said on NFL Network that he didn't care much for it. Some teams don't like it. Others do. They're not going to change their opinions because of Vince Young. The Combine will always be huge in the NFL. As will the Senior Bowl. If you want to go off of college football stats, Ken Dorsey would've been the 1st overall pick instead of a 7th rounder.
     

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