New NFL Referee MO: "Let's throw a flag because a player tells us to do so"

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Man, this is just getting to a point of ridiculousness that I gotta say some serious wackjobs are running this league.

I know, we lost this last game, and that PI play was just one of those bad things you deal with, but what is up with letting that player tell you to throw that flag? I actually thought they were supposed to call a penalty on a player for making a gesture like that at a ref. I mean, there was not even a flag on the field for about 5 seconds, and then whammo, that look in McCarthy's face said it all.

I mean good lord what is this? Let the players call the shots now for PI throwing?

I've seen this league long enough to know that in the past if a ref made a call or non-call, it didn't matter how much that player whined about it, it was standing no matter what. Nowadays, how bad does it get when you all the sudden decide, "oh yeah, I guess I'll throw a flag here since it makes sense"? It's no wonder fans around the league are getting angrier and angrier at this league management. No excuses for this at all.

 

[PackerFanLV]

what about the saints touchdown when the guy hands was fully extended when he pushed of on tramon, no flag was called. what about the play when adams caught the ball for the first down then instead of them spotting the ball where he caught the ball which is call forward progress they spotted the ball a yard from where he fell. what about the call they called on house when house got called for illegal contact and he had clearly better position then the receiver. i can go on. the refs had a big part of the packers losing this game, killed all momentum.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Nearly every game there's gonna be calls that go against us, or for us, that's not quite the essence of what I'm hitting at. What's just deeply disturbing me is when it gets to a point where it seems like the inmates are running the asylum. That should never ever happen on a football field in any league period, peewee or pro.

I cannot ever see some old school refs like Johnny Greer putting up with that crap back in his day, nor would a certain other amount of officials. It's your job to make the calls and stand by them, not pull out a flag because a player is making a gesture to do so.

 

[PackwillBEback]

I'm so sick of the blame culture, especially from people who have never read the NFL rule book from cover to back or any officiating manual, case play manual, or the like. Let alone ever officiated, been to an officiating clinic or meeting.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I'm so sick of the blame culture, especially from people who have never read the NFL rule book from cover to back or any officiating manual, case play manual, or the like. Let alone ever officiated, been to an officiating clinic or meeting.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, and blame is the wrong word. We lost that game because we didn't capitalize on our opportunities such as going for it on that 4th and short, receivers failing to reel in catches off their hands and allowing them to be intercepted, and just an overall failure in the first half to score TDs when we had the shot. So no, that's not the point.

The point is, at what point does it become blatantly bad when an official lets a player on the field tell him to throw a flag, and then all the sudden decides, "oh, okay, yeah I can do that, it makes sense"? I know enough about officiating to know you don't ever let a player make that kind of gesture at you or whine about a flag and throw one because he says so. Everyone watching this game saw it, and it was a flat out embarrassment to the league. That is just major bull that has no place in sports whatsoever. Again, it's your job as a ref to make the calls and make them like you're supposed to, not let the inmates run the asylum.

 

[Forget Favre]

Nearly every game there's gonna be calls that go against us, or for us, that's not quite the essence of what I'm hitting at. What's just deeply disturbing me is when it gets to a point where it seems like the inmates are running the asylum. That should never ever happen on a football field in any league period, peewee or pro.

I cannot ever see some old school refs like Johnny Greer putting up with that crap back in his day, nor would a certain other amount of officials. It's your job to make the calls and stand by them, not pull out a flag because a player is making a gesture to do so.

I think your just guessing at what you saw and assuming that the ref was influenced by the player.
Until we know exactly why the ref threw the flag, we really don't have anything to go by.

Here's another thought:
Football is a very fast game. And I think that's why refs get a lot of calls wrong. And maybe this ref had to think about what he just saw for a few seconds and then threw the flag as a coincidence of timing from the player making the gesture.

 

[Carl]

I think your just guessing at what you saw and assuming that the ref was influenced by the player.
Until we know exactly why the ref threw the flag, we really don't have anything to go by.

Here's another thought:
Football is a very fast game. And I think that's why refs get a lot of calls wrong. And maybe this ref had to think about what he just saw for a few seconds and then threw the flag as a coincidence of timing from the player making the gesture.

It is a fast game, but if untrained people can see a replay at full speed and know a penalty call was awful, the officials should be able to know it's awful too.

I can understand close calls being wrong, but almost every week this year there have been a few absolutely awful ones. House's PI wasn't even close. Everyone but the one guy who threw the flag knew that.

Calls should not be made unless they are blatantly obvious.

 

[JBlood]

The refs had nothing to do with losing the game. The defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. The offense couldn't convert on third down. Most of that is on our average to below average o-line and our poor play from the front 7 on defense. Our team depends on Rogers being perfect, or nearly so, while he scrambles to buy time. More often than not he is, but it's not the way to win Championships. Good teams depend on solid lines that allow the "skill players" to do their thing.

 

[Forget Favre]

The refs had nothing to do with losing the game. The defense couldn't get off the field on 3rd down. The offense couldn't convert on third down. Most of that is on our average to below average o-line and our poor play from the front 7 on defense. Our team depends on Rogers being perfect, or nearly so, while he scrambles to buy time. More often than not he is, but it's not the way to win Championships. Good teams depend on solid lines that allow the "skill players" to do their thing.

110% agree.
Stop blaming the refs.
Especially this one on just one call.
The only way this could be blamed is if we had played better and this particular PI was going to be a game changer such as the Fail Mary.
But even then I'm not sure if blaming this ref would be warranted because the idea that he was influenced by a player is nothing but 100% speculation and there is a very good chance that could be wrong.
If the Pack had played better then they would be winning and then there would be no reason to get upset at the refs.

 

[PackerFanLV]

People are crazy if they think the refs don't influence momentum and out come of games. I'm not solely blaming refs for this game but the calls was pretty one sided.

 

[PackwillBEback]

Again, I would like to know people's officiating experience or knowledge of the rulebook.

 

[GoPGo]

Again, I would like to know people's officiating experience or knowledge of the rulebook.

If what you're implying is that only people with NFL officiating experience are knowledgeable of NFL rules, you're sorely mistaken. That's an elitist perspective and I won't offer any validity to it.

 

[Carl]

Again, I would like to know people's officiating experience or knowledge of the rulebook.

Don't need any experience to know House didn't commit PI. It's easy to tell, even from untrained eyes, there have been plenty of awful calls this season in most games.

 

[Forderick]

It is a fast game, but if untrained people can see a replay at full speed and know a penalty call was awful, the officials should be able to know it's awful too.

I can understand close calls being wrong, but almost every week this year there have been a few absolutely awful ones. House's PI wasn't even close. Everyone but the one guy who threw the flag knew that.

Calls should not be made unless they are blatantly obvious.

The problem with the officiating (or at least a big one IMO) is that the rules are too complicated now. And geared toward allowing the offence more freedom and handcuffing the defence. If a hit looks bad, throw the flag. And a lot of times they get it wrong.

If they would simplify what a ref has to look for on certain plays, and allow the players to play a little more and not worry so much about touching a receiver after 5 yards, did he make a football move or not?

the refs have a hard enough job as is , but the league is making it almost impossible because of the amount of rules and how intricate some of them are.

 

[Carl]

The problem with the officiating (or at least a big one IMO) is that the rules are too complicated now. And geared toward allowing the offence more freedom and handcuffing the defence. If a hit looks bad, throw the flag. And a lot of times they get it wrong.

If they would simplify what a ref has to look for on certain plays, and allow the players to play a little more and not worry so much about touching a receiver after 5 yards, did he make a football move or not?

the refs have a hard enough job as is , but the league is making it almost impossible because of the amount of rules and how intricate some of them are.

Completely agree. Way too many rules makes it too yard.

 

[realcaliforniacheese]

Man, this is just getting to a point of ridiculousness that I gotta say some serious wackjobs are running this league.

I know, we lost this last game, and that PI play was just one of those bad things you deal with, but what is up with letting that player tell you to throw that flag? I actually thought they were supposed to call a penalty on a player for making a gesture like that at a ref. I mean, there was not even a flag on the field for about 5 seconds, and then whammo, that look in McCarthy's face said it all.

I mean good lord what is this? Let the players call the shots now for PI throwing?

I've seen this league long enough to know that in the past if a ref made a call or non-call, it didn't matter how much that player whined about it, it was standing no matter what. Nowadays, how bad does it get when you all the sudden decide, "oh yeah, I guess I'll throw a flag here since it makes sense"? It's no wonder fans around the league are getting angrier and angrier at this league management. No excuses for this at all.

I agree that there is a definite issue with the way the game is being officiated. Way to many penalty's for BS stuff. It is having a decided factor on the game. Not just with some of the many bad and questionable calls such as the roughing the passer or taunting, pass interference. It is making the game more and more difficult to watch. But having said that, I don't think players influence a good refs judgement. sometimes they are just a little slow in getting the flag out or may be looking at another ref for additional input. These guys are graded every week just like the players. you let player influence your call, you won't be reffing in the NFL for long.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I agree that there is a definite issue with the way the game is being officiated. Way to many penalty's for BS stuff. It is having a decided factor on the game. Not just with some of the many bad and questionable calls such as the roughing the passer or taunting, pass interference. It is making the game more and more difficult to watch. But having said that, I don't think players influence a good refs judgement. sometimes they are just a little slow in getting the flag out or may be looking at another ref for additional input. These guys are graded every week just like the players. you let player influence your call, you won't be reffing in the NFL for long.

I understand that, and maybe I should've given the ref a bit of a benefit of a doubt, but you see what I mean in how it looks? It's on TV and when you see a player make a gesture like that and then the ref all the sudden throw a flag on the field when it seems like the play has been over for a while, it makes it look poor on the official's part and only aggravates fans even more.

I brought it up too because I was so sure I had heard somewhere that players and coaches would be penalized if they attempted to use such gestures at the ref whether or not they thought a flag would be thrown. I may be mistaken by that, but if not, that's something the NFL should institute if they're gonna make it fair. Because think about it, we already see flags being thrown over the smallest taunting stuff ever, Clay Matthews got the yellow on that last week against Carolina for that even though he really did nothing to warrant it. I'm just saying if you're gonna do that for one thing, do it for everything else in that category.

Again for everyone else, this is not blaming the refs for losses, it's criticizing the league for a shoddy job done. Like cali cheese and a few others have pointed, there are grading systems in place, and I've even heard that back judges, sidline people, umpires, and other crew members from last year or years before are being replaced, but I think the problem lies deeper and is coming from the upper echelons of the league offices. Like another said, the NFL needs to slow down on their rule changes and rulebook making, or make the refs full-time employees who get 40 hour/week training programs to help them figure out how to better make calls, or something. Fans just want to see consistency and it needs to get done.

 

[Forget Favre]

I think either the coaches should have the right to challenge calls as they do plays or else have every penalty reviewed.
And I think the refs get it right the majority of the time. How often do we give them credit or praise? It's a thankless job so why not point it out when they get it correct?
They are human and they will make mistakes and until they get help by instant replay, expect to keep on being upset.

 

[Powarun]

You know what got me upset, was the delay of game penalty on the Lions on Sunday. Twice I thought Stafford didn't hike the ball in time, then when they finally called it it seemed too soon. From the league's explanation it seems like Delay of game isn't called enough. Granted in the Packers game that was a clear DoG penalty where Rodgers chewed out Linsley but after the Lions game I was confused.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I think either the coaches should have the right to challenge calls as they do plays or else have every penalty reviewed.
And I think the refs get it right the majority of the time. How often do we give them credit or praise? It's a thankless job so why not point it out when they get it correct?
They are human and they will make mistakes and until they get help by instant replay, expect to keep on being upset.

Problem there is then you got 5-hour long games. I don't mind 3-hour games but 5 hours for a football game is way too long.

What needs to happen is for the rulebook to be eradicated of half of the rules in it to make the ref's job easier, less reviews for everything, and more freedom for the players to make big hits, or hand fight for the balls. Less flags, more exciting plays.

 

[Forget Favre]

Problem there is then you got 5-hour long games. I don't mind 3-hour games but 5 hours for a football game is way too long.

Take away the TV timeouts.

Did you know that there is actually only about or on average just 11 minutes of playing time?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

Take away the TV timeouts.

Did you know that there is actually only about or on average just 11 minutes of playing time?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704281204575002852055561406

Never gonna happen - don't you realize how much revenue the NFL gets from the networks who in turn get their revenue from advertising.

 

[Daryl Muellenberg]

what about the saints touchdown when the guy hands was fully extended when he pushed of on tramon, no flag was called. what about the play when adams caught the ball for the first down then instead of them spotting the ball where he caught the ball which is call forward progress they spotted the ball a yard from where he fell. what about the call they called on house when house got called for illegal contact and he had clearly better position then the receiver. i can go on. the refs had a big part of the packers losing this game, killed all momentum.

Actually the play with Adams was the correct call. Adams was coming back to catch the ball, not going forward. Since he wasn't touched and going back on his own momentum, you don't get forward progress based on where you catch the ball but where the ball is when you get touched down. You only get forward progress if you are tackled and driven/pushed back, which definitely was not the case.

 

[Forget Favre]

Never gonna happen - don't you realize how much revenue the NFL gets from the networks who in turn get their revenue from advertising.

That's true.
But nothing suggested on here is going to happen either.
So either keep on complaining or find a way to live with it. Our choice.
I live with all the ******* ads by pausing or recording the game on the DVR and starting to watch later so I can then FF through them later. Take that NFL and TV stations!