Most surprising stat so far - sacks

[Dantés]

I agree that we can look at his history to an extent, and it does show that he doesn't always rely on one dominant guy. However, I just hesitate to take any tendency information from teams that have a historically amazing player at one position. I wouldn't take much from the Seahawks defensive play from when they had Earl Thomas since he was the sole reason they could run the defense they did. Same thing with Revis. Plus, I just can't imagine an elite defense that lacks a dominant pass rusher. I mean, look at the effect adding an elite pass rusher had on the Bears; while Pettine might not NEED an elite edge guy, having one would certainly be helpful I would imagine....though maybe not as much as having decent safeties.

I'm not trying to say that the past tendencies proves that he won't want to invest in the edge position. It's just some data that might give us an indication. "Don't be surprised if..." is I guess the point I'm making.

As for an elite defense without a dominant pass rusher, look no further than those elite Jets defenses. They allowed less than 15 points per game and their best pass rusher was Calvin Pace, who finished with 8 sacks.

I just really follow what you said there in bold. Why would Revis' presence on those Jets teams mean we wouldn't pay attention to the positions they invested in?

 

[sschind]

We beat the Bears and will hopefully beat them again. I'll shed no tears about keeping that salary off of our books. They can do that because they haven't had to pay Trubisky yet. You can't compare the two teams in that regard.

I heard on a few shows and in an interview with Matthews that Pettine is using Perry and Matthews in roles to create sacks for other players. That's not to say that they shouldn't be getting theirs too, but I think that what Mike seems to be doing (and quite well) is using all of his resources in the best ways possible. Perry is strong and can eat up blocks. Matthews' reputation draws some double teams. I think that Pettine is wisely using this to open up sacks from less predictable players. Crafty football.

It's like my ex boss used to say "I don't care which pocket the money is in as long as I am wearing the pants."

I don't care who is getting the sacks as long as we are getting them. The problem with having one stud getting a lot of your sacks is that a good offensive coordinator may be able to game plan around him. If the sacks are coming from all over that can't happen. Besides if we had a guy getting 15 sacks he'd want a ton of money. Noe Gute can say "you want how much? you're crazy ...you only had 7 sacks last year."

 

[Dantés]

On the issue of ED vs. iDL issue-- I do think it's worth pointing out that while the Packers are far stronger on the line than at OLB, they still need to be careful to keep addressing their front as they will be losing key players in the near future. Wilkerson is a FA after this season and Daniels will be entering his final season. They might resign Wilk given that he missed the better half of this season, but I would bet they're both gone by 2020. Lowry is a solid player, but not a difference maker. Adams hasn't shown much. Clark is an All-Pro level guy in the middle, they will need to get him help. And if they view that area as the heart of the defense, they might prioritize that help over OLB.

 

[weeds]

No one mentioned the Dolphins were without 3 starting linemen...including BOTH starting Tackles.

I'm not willing to give any of the six sacks back, and Brock Osweiler is, well, Brock Osweiler ... so, I'm not going to get too worked up yet.

I will say that if the Pack's offense had it's collective heads extricated from its collective poop chutes, earlier on ... We wouldn't be doing the annual "will they or won't they" playoff dance.

 

[rodell330]

Still upset we won on Sunday?

And why would I be upset that we won Sunday, Princess?

 

[Dantés]

Whether they decide they want Edge or DL help, this draft seems stacked with both. Here are the Edge and DL players in Brugler's latest rankings. Over half of his top 32 are at those two spots.

1. Nick Bosa, ED, OSU
3. Ed Oliver, iDL, HOU
4. Quinnen Williams, iDL, UA
7. Rashan Gary, ED/DL, UM
8. Montez Sweat, ED, MSU
9. Josh Allen, ED, UK
10. Jeffery Simmons, iDL, MSU
11. Clelin Ferrell, ED, CLEM
15. Raekwon Davis, iDL, UA
16. Jachai Polite, ED, FLA
21. Christian Wilkins, iDL, CLEM
22. Dexter Lawrence, iDL, CLEM
24. Dre'Mont Jones, iDL, OSU
25. Zach Allen, ED/DL, BC
26. Derrick Brown, iDL, AUB
29. D'Andre Walker, ED, UGA
30. Brian Burns, ED, FSU

 

[Ogsponge]

Speaking of stats, here is a comparison of 2 running backs through the first 19 games of their careers.

Aaron Jones: 154 carries for 942 yards (6.12 yards per rush), 8 rushing TDs

Alvin Kamara: 157 carries for 869 yards (5.54 yards per rush), 10 rushing TDs

 

[PackAttack12]

Speaking of stats, here is a comparison of 2 running backs through the first 19 games of their careers.

Aaron Jones: 154 carries for 942 yards (6.12 yards per rush), 8 rushing TDs

Alvin Kamara: 157 carries for 869 yards (5.54 yards per rush), 10 rushing TDs

Don’t toy with our hearts.

 

[Tavoooo]

Imagine if Clay and Perry actually got sacks

Clay Matthews time is up he’s been an AJ Hawk these past couple of years.

 

[OldSchool101]

That’s a great start. Too bad we could’ve rattle Tom Brady

I’d still like us to go OLB with at least one of those two 1st rounders, let’s start planning for Perry’s departure and get a 5M-10M/annual Veteran Free Agent OLB worth his salt to pair with our rook.

If we can find a rock solid ILB to pair with Martinez that would be preferable on day 2 draft.

 

[rodell330]

That’s a great start. Too bad we could’ve rattle Tom Brady

I’d still like us to go OLB with at least one of those two 1st rounders, let’s start planning for Perry’s departure and get a 5M-10M/annual Veteran Free Agent OLB worry his salt to pair with our rook.

If we can find a rock solid ILB to pair with Martinez that would be preferable on day 2 draft.

The way Pettine has designed the defense even in base they use and extra DB. That DB is usually a safety because of their ability to play against the run and be in the box. I’d prefer that vs another ilb tbh.

 

[OldSchool101]

The way Pettine has designed the defense even in base they use and extra DB. That DB is usually a safety because of their ability to play against the run and be in the box. I’d prefer that vs another ilb tbh.

Oh no I agree on the Safety that was already a foregone conclusion.
I’m talking both.
We would be the better for it if we paired Martinez with a guy like Vander Esch’s twin. I’d prefer a Veteran Safety if there is a quality FA/Trade on the market that doesn’t have a big ? Over his head.
The first tier players (2-1st day picks and 2 quality FAs) would be OLB, Safety,OT, then OLB a second time.
The second tier players would be
ILB, OG, Safety, 1FA and 2-2nd day picks)
That still leaves us with 1-2 4ths (in the event we use one to package up day 2) and a 5th, 6th, 7th to round out depth.

 

[PikeBadger]

That’s a great start. Too bad we could’ve rattle Tom Brady

I’d still like us to go OLB with at least one of those two 1st rounders, let’s start planning for Perry’s departure and get a 5M-10M/annual Veteran Free Agent OLB worth his salt to pair with our rook.

If we can find a rock solid ILB to pair with Martinez that would be preferable on day 2 draft.

We have 10 picks in our pocket for this next draft. Rack and stack the draft board and fill each of these 9 positions based on their board.

DL, ILB, OLB, S, CB, TE, WR, RB, OT.

Always be true to your board and fill in areas of perceived need with vet FA’s after the draft.

In early FA, keep eyes open for potentially a guard or safety available after the first 72 hours. Those guys would generally not break the bank.

 

[sschind]

Speaking of stats, here is a comparison of 2 running backs through the first 19 games of their careers.

Aaron Jones: 154 carries for 942 yards (6.12 yards per rush), 8 rushing TDs

Alvin Kamara: 157 carries for 869 yards (5.54 yards per rush), 10 rushing TDs

Slight correction here is a comparison of 2 running backs rushing stats through their first 19 games.

I still wish we would have drafted AK last year.

 

[AmishMafia]

I doubt we take an ILB. We will want to see what Burkes looks like. We knew he was raw when we took him. Give him an entire offseason before we try to replace.

The value in this draft is DL and OLB. We have never seen a draft like this. I heard one person say this is the most talent at any one position ever, referring to DL.

Here's the thing. Some GMs will reach for an OT, a QB or WR because of a big need. Some will go CB in the first knowing there are still enough starter level DLs to wait to the 2nd round. In other words, there will likely be DTs sitting there in the 20s that in a normal year, would go in the top 10. Nows the year to get a 5T or even 2 with the first 2 picks. That adds the most talent to the team.

I like rotating the big boys to keep them fresh - they take a pounding in there.

But you never know what the draft will bring us.

I see our needs as this: S, OLB, OG, 5T, OT, and WR.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Perry is strong and can eat up blocks. Matthews' reputation draws some double teams. I think that Pettine is wisely using this to open up sacks from less predictable players.

I highly doubt opponents double team Matthews a lot these days though.

I ask because sometimes the term is used in different senses. Sometimes people mean that rushers come after the QB that aren't expected, but sometimes they mean more than four rushers come after the QB. Pettine is super blitz heavy by the former definition, but I don't think he is by the latter.

I used PFF's numbers for this season as they're the only ones I have access to year round. It seems they use a different method than the common one though.

I just really follow what you said there in bold. Why would Revis' presence on those Jets teams mean we wouldn't pay attention to the positions they invested in?

I think the point was that while having a cornerback being able to cover half of the field on his own negates the need to have a dominating pass rusher.

Slight correction here is a comparison of 2 running backs rushing stats through their first 19 games.

I still wish we would have drafted AK last year.

Yeah, the huge difference being that Kamara has caught a total of 136 balls for 1,299 yards and eight touchdowns during his first 25 games while Jones has 20 receptions for 100 yards and no touchdowns in 19 contests.

 

[Dantés]

I used PFF's numbers for this season as they're the only ones I have access to year round. It seems they use a different method than the common one though.

I think the point was that while having a cornerback being able to cover half of the field on his own negates the need to have a dominating pass rusher.

And I don't have any issue with those metrics-- I just wanted clarification on what they're actually measuring.

I see that point re: Revis, and how that helps explain NY's dominance despite lacking a truly great edge rusher, but to me it doesn't at all explain the lack of investment to go get one. I wasn't going back and looking at how successful Pettine's defenses have been with/without great edge talent, but rather at what investments the teams he coached for made when he was running the defense. In the past, Pettine's teams have not invested in edge rushers. It's been DL, corners, and off-ball linebackers. So it will be interesting to see how it works out in Green Bay.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I see that point re: Revis, and how that helps explain NY's dominance despite lacking a truly great edge rusher, but to me it doesn't at all explain the lack of investment to go get one. I wasn't going back and looking at how successful Pettine's defenses have been with/without great edge talent, but rather at what investments the teams he coached for made when he was running the defense. In the past, Pettine's teams have not invested in edge rushers. It's been DL, corners, and off-ball linebackers. So it will be interesting to see how it works out in Green Bay.

It's definitely possible that Pettine doesn't put as much value in having an elite edge rusher as other defensive coordinators. Actually his tenure with the Jets as well as his short stint with the Packers so far suggest that you were right all along in evaluating his scheme as if I recall correctly you already mentioned it this offseason.

 

[Dantés]

It's definitely possible that Pettine doesn't put as much value in having an elite edge rusher as other defensive coordinators. Actually his tenure with the Jets as well as his short stint with the Packers so far suggest that you were right all along in evaluating his scheme as if I recall correctly you already mentioned it this offseason.

The thing is, if he can sustain success without having to spend a ton of capital, that's a huge competitive advantage. Because edge rushers are typically the most expensive players on the defensive side. But that's a big "if." Now watch them trade up in round 1 for an edge rusher.

 

[HardRightEdge]

They might resign Wilk given that he missed the better half of this season....

Given the apparent severity of his injury, I highly doubt that. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he retires.

 

[Dantés]

Given the apparent severity of his injury, I highly doubt that. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he retires.

I doubt it too. And if that's how it plays out, all the more reason why we shouldn't be surprised to see them go after more DL help.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I doubt it too. And if that's how it plays out, all the more reason why we shouldn't be surprised to see them go after more DL help.

It's premature, but I'd say edge, slot receiver, S, DL, OL, in approximately that order of priority but not necessarily draft order or cost of FA expenditure. We'll see what the cuts and free agency signings bring. Depending on the how the guys perform the rest of the way, FS might need to move up the list.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's premature, but I'd say edge, slot receiver, S, DL, OL, in approximately that order of priority but not necessarily draft order or cost of FA expenditure. We'll see what the cuts and free agency signings bring. Depending on the how the guys perform the rest of the way, FS might need to move up the list.

I definitely expect free safety to be in more dire need of an upgrade than slot receiver next offseason.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I definitely expect free safety to be in more dire need of an upgrade than slot receiver next offseason.

It's not as though Williams has spent much time playing the position. I would reserve judgment until we see more of him.

 

[PackAttack12]

The thing is, if he can sustain success without having to spend a ton of capital, that's a huge competitive advantage. Because edge rushers are typically the most expensive players on the defensive side. But that's a big "if." Now watch them trade up in round 1 for an edge rusher.

There has obviously been talk in the past of Capers defenses of the past few years and how guys always seemed to be confused or out of position pretty regularly. Some speculated that it could be due to the complexity of Capers system and the inability of the players to grasp it and execute it properly, and then there were those that said Capers didn't do a good enough job of communicating and reinforcing the scheme.

It seems there's quite a bit of complexity to Pettine's defense with the different blitz packages and such especially situationally, yet it seems like there's been much less confusion and better execution.

What are your thoughts on this? It seems to suggest to me that Capers did a lousy job teaching and reinforcing the scheme and making sure guys knew where they needed to be. You seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the Pettine scheme as a Ryan protégée.