Mike Pettine's Defence

[GleefulGary]

It was a frustrating game to watch for me, since I was under the impression that Tampa Bay was the best team in the NFC by the way that they mauled the Packers. Granted, just one game, but seeing a 1-7 team play them that tight, set my expectations of the Packers back a notch or two.

It was a frustrating game to watch for me, since I was under the impression that Tampa Bay was the best team in the NFC by the way that they mauled the Packers. Granted, just one game, but seeing a 1-7 team play them that tight, set my expectations of the Packers back a notch or two.

Football is stupid. Teams don’t play the same every week. I wouldn’t read into it as much as you are.

 

[El Guapo]

It's the reverse of the Vikings, a pitiful team this season that woke up for the Packers. Tampa didn't have to wake up per se, but they played their best. Their defense was super pumped, their QB on the money, and their old TE pulled out his best game.

Last night TBTB was off on many of his throws. The defense was slower.

I would love to see OUR defense get pumped up for a game. Remember all of the Seahawks/Packers games when our defense actually played with pop? That's coaching. That's what I haven't seen in many years from the Packers.

 

[GleefulGary]

It's the reverse of the Vikings, a pitiful team this season that woke up for the Packers. Tampa didn't have to wake up per se, but they played their best. Their defense was super pumped, their QB on the money, and their old TE pulled out his best game.

Last night TBTB was off on many of his throws. The defense was slower.

I would love to see OUR defense get pumped up for a game. Remember all of the Seahawks/Packers games when our defense actually played with pop? That's coaching. That's what I haven't seen in many years from the Packers.

They had it at times last year.

This year, not so much.

 

[El Guapo]

I moved from my home state of Wisconsin to Minnesota for school, so as the Beach Boys once said, "Be true to your school." I am a big Golden Gopher football fan. In mid-2018, PJ Fleck fire his defensive coordinator and promoted Joe Rossi. Here is a clip about it from last season:

Rossi showed promise in 2018 after Fleck fired former defensive coordinator Robb Smith, following high-scoring losses to Iowa (48 points), Nebraska (53) and Illinois (55). With Rossi as interim coordinator, a switch flipped. In the final four games, including wins against Purdue, Wisconsin and Georgia Tech, the Gophers allowed an average of 14.75 points per game.

Teams absolutely can fire a defensive coordinator mid-season, and without making player changes turn around a pathetic defense into a ferocious defense. The Packers can do it too.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would love to see OUR defense get pumped up for a game. Remember all of the Seahawks/Packers games when our defense actually played with pop? That's coaching. That's what I haven't seen in many years from the Packers.

Well put. I don't think we have those players nor the coaches, that bring that energy. I thought Z-Dog and Preston were THOSE guys, but they seem to only get excited after one of them makes a sack. I also thought Pettine coaching from the sidelines, instead of the box, would give them the fire that Kevin Greene brought to the sideline when he was a LB coach for the Packers. You might have hit it on the head, this defense lacks energy, especially once the team falls behind.

 

[gatorpack]

We need better defensive coaches 1 and better talent 2. The talent we have shouldn't look as bad as it does. We are out of position by design. I don't want to hear no it's better for a team to score in 10 plays than 6 plays. If you're willing to give up at least 5 yards every single play teams are going to take that all day long. There will be no turnovers created, you have to create havoc for turnovers we're not even trying. The Packers defensive game plan is make them drive for 10 plays and hope they make a mistake. The problem is no havoc equals very few mistakes.

 

[GleefulGary]

It is not a coaches job to get his players energized!

These guys are in the Super Bowl hunt, they’re getting paid MILLIONS of dollars! If they can’t get their energy up for that, then they aren’t worth the money. That’s not on the coaches, imo. Again, this isn’t a movie. It isn’t HS football.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Teams absolutely can fire a defensive coordinator mid-season, and without making player changes turn around a pathetic defense into a ferocious defense. The Packers can do it too.

Teams have fired their HC's mid season and it has sparked them into winning. I don't think there is necessarily a "right or wrong" time to fire a coach, especially if the main reason you are firing him is his inability to get his players to play as a whole, at the level of their ability. Now if Gute and MLF decide that the defense is short quality players and Pettine is over achieving with the Tool box he has been give to work with, then he shouldn't be fired. While it would be nice to have a few better players, I don't see lack of talent as the pervasive issue with the D. We seemed to have this same hot-cold inconsistent defenses with Capers. Brilliant guy, but he couldn't keep his foot on the gas pedal and sustain it. I also think the Front Office got tired of "needs better players" and when you look at the drafts, they sure tried.

MLF is the most innovative head coach we have seen in Green Bay, I think its time to find a DC that has that same creative mind and ready to pump some new hope into this defense.

 

[Mondio]

I guess to me and the author of the article I sited:

"Rex Ryan Rips Green Bay Packers Defensive Coordinator Mike Pettine"

it was pretty apparent that Rex Ryan was being highly critical of Pettine. Your reply seemed to try and rebuke that.



I disagree with you, Rex Ryan, Pettine's former boss, was totally calling out Pettine. So no, you and I weren't saying the same thing.

As far as his job being safe, if you don't see him as the problem, isn't his job safe?

one last time. I didn't say he was giving glowing remarks about Pettine or say his job should be safe. I don't read it as ripping Pettine from a standpoint Pettine doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't say Mike Pettine is running stupid stuff, he doesn't say Mike Pettine doesn't know defense. He doesn't say Mike Pettine is a moron. He says the players lack resiliance in the face of pressure and whoever is coaching his linebackers isn't doing what he knows Pettine Knows. Do you understand? There's a difference in the way someone "rips" someone.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Do you understand? There's a difference in the way someone "rips" someone.

Sure, glad that we are in agreement that your "ripping" of Pettine is just in a different way than Rex or I are critiquing him.

 

[pacmaniac]

I guess to me and the author of the article I sited:

"Rex Ryan Rips Green Bay Packers Defensive Coordinator Mike Pettine"

it was pretty apparent that Rex Ryan was being highly critical of Pettine. Your reply seemed to try and rebuke that.



I disagree with you, Rex Ryan, Pettine's former boss, was totally calling out Pettine. So no, you and I weren't saying the same thing.

Sad, Rex Ryan was totally singing his praises after he was hired, saying Pettine was "the smartest guy in the room." Guess not.

 

[GleefulGary]

Sad, Rex Ryan was totally singing his praises after he was hired, saying Pettine was "the smartest guy in the room." Guess not.

This is an example of why people should read the article, not just the headline. Rex wasn’t really ripping Pettine as much as the headline indicates. Look at this excerpt:

“Look, they can say, ‘We’re 12th in the league in (total) defense,’ ” Ryan said. “But you guys stink when it counts. I don’t know who’s coaching the inside ‘backers (Kirk Olivadotti), but my God! Mike Pettine you better go coach ‘em yourself. And that team has to toughen up or they’re done. One and done.”

The above statement from Rex is very different from “Rex Ryan rips Mike Pettine”. Now he’s not exactly complimenting Pettine either, but there is a little nuance here.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sad, Rex Ryan was totally singing his praises after he was hired, saying Pettine was "the smartest guy in the room." Guess not.

Well he probably STILL is the smartest guy in the Packers defensive room, he just doesn't seem to know how to translate that through his coaches and to his players. That is the message I got.

Mike Pettine wouldn't be the first or the last employee of any job to not work out as some had predicted. I don't doubt Pettine has a great defensive mind, but for whatever reason(s) I am not so sure we are seeing how it fully works on the field.

 

[swhitset]

It was a frustrating game to watch for me, since I was under the impression that Tampa Bay was the best team in the NFC by the way that they mauled the Packers. Granted, just one game, but seeing a 1-7 team play them that tight, set my expectations of the Packers back a notch or two.

Watching what Cook did to the Packers defense pretty much had me there already. Unfortunately, I don’t have very high expectations fir the Packers this year at all anymore.

 

[swhitset]

This is an example of why people should read the article, not just the headline. Rex wasn’t really ripping Pettine as much as the headline indicates. Look at this excerpt:

“Look, they can say, ‘We’re 12th in the league in (total) defense,’ ” Ryan said. “But you guys stink when it counts. I don’t know who’s coaching the inside ‘backers (Kirk Olivadotti), but my God! Mike Pettine you better go coach ‘em yourself. And that team has to toughen up or they’re done. One and done.”

The above statement from Rex is very different from “Rex Ryan rips Mike Pettine”. Now he’s not exactly complimenting Pettine either, but there is a little nuance here.

When reading the entire article... not just the one quote you cited... to try and kind of support your point, I would most definitely say that Ryan was ripping Pettine and HIS defense. The quote you cited read more to me like it was hard for Ryan to go all in and completely trash his friend and former protege... but that his defense was looking so bad that he didn’t know what else to say.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Watching what Cook did to the Packers defense pretty much had me there already. Unfortunately, I don’t have very high expectations fir the Packers this year at all anymore.

I didn't have that high of expectations when the Season started, I think I predicted 10-6. Their remaining schedule has 4 games against teams with winning records (Colts, Titans Bears(2)). The other 4 games are against teams that they "should" beat (Jaguars, Eagles, Lions, Panthers). Also, Thursday, they have 5 at home and 3 on the road, which in normal years would favor us, maybe not this year.

12-4 would be a better than expected season in my book. However, unless they stay extremely healthy, improve a lot on Defense, I don't see them getting past the second round of the playoffs.

 

[Dantés]

This isn't a totally new revelation by any stretch of the imagination, but it really occurred to me last night how much of our struggles on defense as a team are attributable to deficiencies at linebacker.

Given that LaFleur runs a very similar offense to the ones in Minnesota and San Francisco that have carved us up on the ground, we can learn something about our defensive struggles based on what other teams do that works against our offense.

Watching Fred Warner blow up action happening on the edge last night was reminiscent of the TB linebackers and how effective they were at flowing to the outside and dropping zone runs before they could turn upfield.

The Packers' highest snap count at LB this year is rookie UDFA Krys Barnes with 240 (50%). After him, it's sophomore 7th rounder Ty Summers with 170 (35%), Kirksey with 128 (27%), Burks with 80 (17%), and Martin with 71 (15%).

Barnes has flashed at times and had some moments that were impressive for being a rookie UDFA, but he was horrible last night, both in the run game and in terms of leaving huge gaping holes in the middle field zones. He's overmatched and shouldn't have a big role on any defense that wants to be good.

Ty Summers was also horrible, but he's always horrible.

When they get Kirksey and Martin back, and get them on the field together, even if they're just mediocre, I think it would help a lot.

They really miss Martinez right now, and not because he was ever very good, but because what they're running out there is practice squad caliber.

 

[gopkrs]

I worry that the scheme and/or the teaching of the linebackers is not real good. I liked that Oren Burks got a lot of playing time. I did not see any glaring mistakes by him. And he made a couple good hits.

 

[Dantés]

I worry that the scheme and/or the teaching of the linebackers is not real good. I liked that Oren Burks got a lot of playing time. I did not see any glaring mistakes by him. And he made a couple good hits.

I don't know if the coaching is good or bad, but the talent at the position, especially without Kirksey and Martin, is atrocious.

 

[gopkrs]

I don't know if the coaching is good or bad, but the talent at the position, especially without Kirksey and Martin, is atrocious.

I agree except about Barnes and maybe Burks. They have to know when to wait and when to go as far as hitting the hole is concerned. And that is teaching I think. Those inside linebackers need to be fluid and ready to charge or back-up and cover. Sometimes I see Barnes hitting a hole that is for the most part already covered and only gives the RB a chance to shift directions and go where Barnes was. Needs just a little patience. But I like the way he hits.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am not so sure. Barnes and Martin show good tackling ability to me. More so than Martinez ever did.

I never remember Martinez as being a bad tackler technique wise, maybe I missed something? He just seemed a bit too slow, not a great coverage guy and always seeming to move backwards more than forward. He could tackle, but it seemed to be after too many yards were already surrendered.

 

[gopkrs]

I never remember Martinez as being a bad tackler technique wise, maybe I missed something? He just seemed a bit too slow, not a great coverage guy and always seeming to move backwards more than forward. He could tackle, but it seemed to be after too many yards were already surrendered.

I didn't mean that. Just that Barnes likes to hit...hard. Martinez likes to wrap up a guy. I like inside linebackers to made a crash statement.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I never remember Martinez as being a bad tackler technique wise, maybe I missed something? He just seemed a bit too slow, not a great coverage guy and always seeming to move backwards more than forward. He could tackle, but it seemed to be after too many yards were already surrendered.

Did Martinez ever play on a team with A.J. Hawk???

 

[Dantés]

I agree except about Barnes and maybe Burks. They have to know when to wait and when to go as far as hitting the hole is concerned. And that is teaching I think. Those inside linebackers need to be fluid and ready to charge or back-up and cover. Sometimes I see Barnes hitting a hole that is for the most part already covered and only gives the RB a chance to shift directions and go where Barnes was. Needs just a little patience. But I like the way he hits.

I am not saying that Pettine & Co are necessarily doing a good job, but I think expecting any coaching staff to have a UDFA rookie playing well at linebacker is an unrealistic expectation.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Did Martinez ever play on a team with A.J. Hawk???

No and that might not have turned out well.....

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