McCarthy coaches, Favre responds

Zero2Cool

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Probably Pete's best article to date.


By Pete Dougherty
[email protected]

After Brett Favre threw five interceptions in a practice four days into training camp, coach Mike McCarthy said the same thing publicly as in the Green Bay Packers' next quarterbacks meeting: Favre broke a cardinal rule by throwing the ball down the middle of the field late in a play.

That practice, and the way McCarthy and his coaching staff handled it, potentially was an important day in the 2006 season. It could show whether McCarthy's more critical way of handling a future Hall of Fame quarterback is more effective than the previous coaching staff's lighter touch, and could be seen as a watershed if Favre cuts his interceptions about in half from the astounding 29 he threw last season.

As a 36-year-old and three-time NFL most valuable player, Favre isn't, and shouldn't be, coached like a younger quarterback. But it was worth noting that McCarthy publicly, even if mildly, rebuked Favre, and went over each of those interceptions with all four quarterbacks at their next meeting. He recalls categorizing two or three of them as bad decisions.

"A big part of coaching is emphasizing," McCarthy said Friday. "When something goes wrong, you have to emphasize it, and if it doesn't get corrected, you have to find a different way to emphasize it until you correct it. That (meeting) was an opportunity to emphasize it for everybody in the room. We did that, and I'm not saying that's the reason why, but it's been pretty good since."

Coaching Favre, and keeping his interception total to a manageable number, could go a long way in defining McCarthy's debut season as Packers coach. In his best seasons, 1995 to 1997, Favre threw 13, 13 and 16 interceptions, respectively, and his 112 touchdown passes to 42 interceptions was almost a 3-to-1 ratio.

Attaining that high a ratio with this rebuilding team and at Favre's age might not be realistic, but a 2-to-1 ratio is a strong season.

"Your aim is to get higher than that," quarterbacks coach Tom Clements said. "But if you get 30 touchdowns and 15 interceptions, that's pretty good."

There will be several factors in Favre's play, including whether he has a running game to occupy defenses, and if he's constantly playing from behind, like last season.

Regardless of those circumstances, much of the Packers' fate on offense rests in Favre's hands because he remains their best offensive playmaker. McCarthy and his offensive coaching staff have to find a way to get the maximum from that talent without the interceptions that plagued last season.

Like the previous coaching staff, the Packers' coaches say Favre is open to coaching — all attribute it in part to the ingrained respect he has for coaches because his father was a high school coach. In the quarterbacks' meeting after the five-interception practice, offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski said Favre matter-of-factly accepted the critique of his interceptions and the mind-set McCarthy wants.

"'Yeah, I see it, I can't force it,'" Jagodzinski said, recounting Favre's reaction.

"He takes coaching, he always has. You don't berate a guy. There's a way to do it, there's a way not to do it."

Favre hasn't had a lights-out training camp and isn't the talent he was several years ago, but he's played well in practice this summer. After a preseason opener in which San Diego's defense ran roughshod over the Packers' offensive line, Favre last week against Atlanta had a passer rating of 118.4 points while playing through the first series of the second half.

On Monday night, he'll get his longest look of the preseason against a Cincinnati team that intercepted him five times in a 21-14 win over the Packers last season. The Packers' starters probably will play at least well into third quarter on Monday night, and play only briefly in the preseason finale four days later.

The Bengals led the NFL in interceptions last season with 31, and likely will play their starting defense about as long as the Packers' starters on offense.

Though one game never proves anything, this game against an interception-oriented defense might suggest how much Favre's decision-making mind-set has changed.

It also will provide a better look at McCarthy's efforts to move closer to the roots of the West Coast offense with more ball-control slants and crossing patterns, combined with the new zone-blocking run game, so Favre won't feel like he has to carry the offense.

"I think (Favre) is a lot more disciplined, clearly," McCarthy said. "That's really just a focus of how our offense needs to be run. We're looking to generate first downs, we're looking to create as many red-zone situations as possible, because we feel that's going to be the strength of our offense."

The factors that led to Favre's NFL-leading 29 interceptions last year have been well chronicled. The biggest was the early season injuries to receiver Javon Walker and halfbacks Ahman Green and Najeh Davenport, which robbed the offense of a running game and its best big-play receiver. That left the previous coaching staff with too few weapons and Favre with a feeling he had to make all the plays.

Favre deserved his share of the blame for letting that mentality override him. Former coach Mike Sherman and his staff deserve blame for not convincing Favre to operate more within the limitations of his team, as futile as that might have seemed.

"He could have been more careful with the ball, and the team still would have lost," Clements said. "But he was trying to make plays."

Even if the Packers' new coaching staff accepts that rationale for the 29-interception season, it has been more outspoken about Favre reining in his strongest gun-slinging instincts.

When McCarthy was the Packers' quarterbacks coach in 1999, he watched all the game film from 1998, when Favre threw 23 interceptions in his last season under ultra-demanding former coach Mike Holmgren. McCarthy also watched five games of each of Favre's previous five years, which included the MVP seasons.

Favre threw 23 interceptions in 1999, though McCarthy attributed a good share of those problems to the chronic thumb injury that actually was three injuries to Favre's throwing hand. Regardless, after working with Favre in the offseason and training camp, he sees a far more mature and sophisticated quarterback than the one he worked with seven years ago.

"Coaching him," McCarthy said, "is more of a reinforcement of fundamentals; reinforcement that we're all on the same page; reinforcement of not pushing the envelop too much, just let the game come to you, because he still is talented enough to make all the reads and all the throws.

"So coaching him is a little different than a younger player. A younger player, they think they know, but they haven't done it. He knows, he's done it. He's done it good and he's also screwed it up. The guy's 36 years old, he's played more snaps than just about anybody in the history of the NFL. Think about all the snaps he's taken in practice, let alone games."
 

musccy

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I'm happy to see this...ppl passed the buck on Favre last year attributing his ints primarily, if not entirely, to lack of talent. Although I acknowledge that was a contributing factor, he still made many poor decisions that hurt the packers, and I'm glad that there's finally a coaching staff willing to stand up to him and willing to correct his mistakes.
 

TomAllen

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AAAUUGHHH....C'mon..all of a sudden, first year head coach McCarthy is going to come in and "fix" future HOF QB Brett Favre because he's lost the ability to play the game anymore? That is laughable.

and this article is total ********!

I wish Favre would have taken the sack last year or ran outside the tackles and fired the ball into the turf everytime someone wasn't completely open or he didn't have time to throw the ball.

Then y'all would have seen how completely ineffectual the Green Bay Packers were last year, and how much they SUCKED!

But people would have been crying, pissing, and moaning and saying why isn't Brett Favre at least trying to win by taking some shots at throwing the ball in there anyway--since we suck so bad? Why can't he be the Brett Favre we all know and win the game by himself? Which is exactly what he did, not having any other options.

I guess it's a no win situation at QB. You get blamed for stuff that is your fault, and for stuff that isn't!
 

Packersfan43084

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TomAllen said:
AAAUUGHHH....C'mon..all of a sudden, first year head coach McCarthy is going to come in and "fix" future HOF QB Brett Favre because he's lost the ability to play the game anymore? That is laughable.

and this article is total b.s.!

I wish Favre would have taken the sack last year or ran outside the tackles and fired the ball into the turf everytime someone wasn't completely open or he didn't have time to throw the ball.

Then y'all would have seen how completely ineffectual the Green Bay Packers were last year, and how much they SUCKED!

But people would have been crying, pissing, and moaning and saying why isn't Brett Favre at least trying to win by taking some shots at throwing the ball in there anyway--since we suck so bad? Which is exactly what he did.

Guess it's a no win situation at QB. You get blamed for stuff that is your fault, and for stuff that isn't!

what the hell are you talking about? Mike Sherman and his staff never held Favre accountable for his mistakes. They would always "bite their tongue." McCarthy and his staff are going to emphasize making the smart plays and not forcing it as much. But they're still gonna let Brett be Brett.
 

4packgirl

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here we go again!!! why is it necessary for everyone to find one specific person to blame for last season's record? and why is mccarthy the second coming of Christ because he acknowledged favre's interceptions in practice?

edit: never mind - i'm done banging my head against the wall. different perception from different people - deep breaths - ok, i'm good now. :)
 

musccy

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you're right 4packgirl that it's not JUST brett's fault, but a lot of ppl liked to overlook the fact that, at times, he was playing like a lunatic, e.g. v. Cinncy last year when the Pack were tied, and he throws picks on 3 straight possessions.
 

4packgirl

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well, i'd say any of us would be playing like a lunatic with NObody at WR, NObody on the line to protect us, & NObody to help...but maybe that's just me.

anyway, you see it one way & i see it another...it's all good. :)
 

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Brett had people but they were lower quality thats forsure. To me it was more Sherman failing to game plan around the teams defiecencies than anything else. Sherman knew the quality of the team was down and did not coach within his means as Farve did not play within his
 
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Zero2Cool

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lmao@ completely open ... this is the NFL not high school football

If the QB only threw the ball when a receiver was 'completely open' we would not see nearly the same amount of throws a game.



Hmm, good thing?
 

musccy

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there's a difference between trying to make something out of nothing when you have nobody there, or just being stupid...

E.G. vs. the bears in Chicago, end of last half, Pack in fg range, would have taken the lead, he's about to get sacked so he wings up a blind prayer, int, returned to the 5...and the bears get a fg w/ seconds left. That's just plain dumb...the cinncy game was a lot of this too.

That's a lot different than a last minute drive, down by 7 and you try to force stuff. In philly it was like that last year...last drive...if Favre doesn't make something happen, games over anyway...i'm not referring to stuff like this.
 

TomAllen

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Zero2Cool said:
lmao@ completely open ... this is the NFL not high school football

If the QB only threw the ball when a receiver was 'completely open' we would not see nearly the same amount of throws a game.



Hmm, good thing?

That's exactly the point Zero. Maybe Favre should have just ran outside the tackles and fired the ball into the turf over and over again.

How would you have liked that offense?
 
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Zero2Cool

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TomAllen said:
Zero2Cool said:
lmao@ completely open ... this is the NFL not high school football

If the QB only threw the ball when a receiver was 'completely open' we would not see nearly the same amount of throws a game.



Hmm, good thing?

That's exactly the point Zero. Maybe Favre should have just ran outside the tackles and fired the ball into the turf over and over again.

How would you have liked that offense?

37 year old QB running outside of the tackles. Hmm. Yea that's not what you want to see. That'd be like watching grass grow.


Brett is not Vick. He can no longer scramble forward.


I'll give you an out here. If you are saying rolling out side the tackles, I agree with that. But if you're saying running forward, my god that's insane lol
 

musccy

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[email protected]'m glad to see you and your exagerated, embellished, and inacurate reasoning is back again.

Do ppl really believe that on every single play last year, every one of the eligible packer receivers was blanketed and Favre literally had no choice but to jam it into coverage?

McCarthy, myself, and others who criticize specific decisions of Favre (note that I didn't say favre critics) are referring to select incidents in which he makes obviously poor decisions...i referenced one such incident in a previous post in this thread...a lot of the cinncy game was like this too. These are teh situations that I'm referring to

No go ahead and mangle and contort everything I say into what you want to hear.
 

cyoung

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Favre never would of thrown all of those int's if he had:
A: A Running Game
B: Some healthy wide receivers
C: some extra blocking (I think i remember some O-lineman getting hurt)
 

TomAllen

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No. No.

What i'm trying to say here (and i guess doing poorly), is that if people say that Favre made bad decision by trying to "force things to happen" that weren't there on passing plays, perhaps he should have just scampere outside the tackles and fired the ball into the turf (ie. throw it away.)

Lemme tell you, he would have been doing that quite often, and it wouldn't have been a very exciting offense for GB last year!
 

musccy

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OK...I see what you're trying to say...the same fan shouldn't say "Brett shouldn't force it" and when brett doesn't force it, that fan can't come back and criticize him for not making things happen...it'd be a double standard on the fan's part


I understand that there were certainly plays when nothing was there last year...but I don't feel it was as prevelant or as bad as ppl made it out to be last year. W/out the luxury of watching game film, it's all speculation on either of our parts...so i guess it's a matter of agreeing to disagree
 

Packersfan43084

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TomAllen said:
No. No.

What i'm trying to say here (and i guess doing poorly), is that if people say that Favre made bad decision by trying to "force things to happen" that weren't there on passing plays, perhaps he should have just scampere outside the tackles and fired the ball into the turf (ie. throw it away.)

Lemme tell you, he would have been doing that quite often, and it wouldn't have been a very exciting offense for GB last year!

All i'm saying is that had Favre done a better job at picking and choosing when to force throws, we would've been much better off. Our defense was good enough last year to win games for us. Had Favre not thrown into triple coverage all the time, maybe we would've won some more games.
 

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Musscy said,
Do ppl really believe that on every single play last year, every one of the eligible packer receivers was blanketed and Favre literally had no choice but to jam it into coverage?

Yes, that was the case. Don't forget Musscy, Sherman's game plan was so transparent that everyone knew what was coming on the next play.

All the defense had to do was double cover Driver, and then who do you go to on pass plays?
 

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TomAllen said:
perhaps he should have just scampere outside the tackles and fired the ball into the turf (ie. throw it away.)

That's usually better than forcing it into double and sometimes triple coverage.
 

TomAllen

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I'd love to see what people would have been saying here if he had done that!

I wish he would have.
 

porky88

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TomAllen said:
I'd love to see what people would have been saying here if he had done that!

I wish he would have.

Nobody criticizes, Brady, Manning, or even Brad Johnson for doing that. Why would they rip on Favre?
 

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Brett Favre is human. He might be the best human to ever play quarterback in the NFL, but he is human. He has made mistakes. The one criticism I've had of Brett is that too often last year he tried to make the great play instead of the right play. Having said that, making the great play won us a Superbowl, got us to another, and helped make this guy a 3 time MVP. Yeah it's nice to finally have a coaching staff that looks at Brett and says, "this isn't the decision a HOF QB and 3 time MVP should be making." It's called accountability and everyone of us in life should have that. Just because he the greatest who ever played the game doesn't mean he shouldn't answer to his coaching staff.
 

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PackedHouse.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't answer to his coaching staff. I'm saying there was not much else he could do with the state that the team was in last year.
 

packedhouse01

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I agree Tom, he didn't have many options and I know he was trying to create something, but quite a few of those interceptions were due in part to trying to make a great play rather than just making the right play.
 

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packedhouse01 said:
I agree Tom, he didn't have many options and I know he was trying to create something, but quite a few of those interceptions were due in part to trying to make a great play rather than just making the right play.

I agree sometimes you just need to take what the defense gives you. Football is often a game of field position and it's hard to win games when you opponent gets the ball at mid field for every drive. Sometimes throwing it away or checking down to the back is the best thing to do. So far this pre season I've seen Favre check down to the back a lot more.
 

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