Matt extended

[tynimiller]

I still say it you watch back Loves fourth quarter final drives the dude rarely doesn’t deliver.

That playoff game against Bears he freaking through some DIMES of all DIMES. He cannot throw and catch it…

But even outside that drive he continues to almost habitual move his team and then our ST blows it or we score and then our defense collapses.

Love is fine and one of the best in tight spots.

 

[adambr2]

I still say it you watch back Loves fourth quarter final drives the dude rarely doesn’t deliver.

That playoff game against Bears he freaking through some DIMES of all DIMES. He cannot throw and catch it…

But even outside that drive he continues to almost habitual move his team and then our ST blows it or we score and then our defense collapses.

Love is fine and one of the best in tight spots.

I think he’s a fine QB.

If I have a criticism of him, it’s that I’d like to see him step up as a more vocal leader.

 

[tynimiller]

I think he’s a fine QB.

If I have a criticism of him, it’s that I’d like to see him step up as a more vocal leader.

His style is definitely not the yell at people type for sure.

 

[OldSchool101]

I was listening to a podcast the other day (I’m a huge dynasty fantasy football guy), and they were naming off a list of all the sub 4.33 WRs at the combine — it was a really sorry list.

Basically, the point was, track star speed has never really been any kind of translation to NFL success at the WR position.

Off topic, but responding to another point made in here, I don’t know about everyone else but I don’t ever intend to imply that my opinion is fact — unless I’m talking about something that can statically be proven or disproven:

Opinion - Matt Lafleur is a below average head coach.

Fact - Matt Lafleur is the longest tenured head coach in the NFL in his current position to never have reached a Super Bowl.

If it can’t be statically proven, I always imply that it’s my opinion. I can’t speak for everyone else but I never felt the need to disclaim that something that can’t be factually proven is anything other than an opinion — I thought that was implied.

I still really think it’s hard to blame MLF for at least 2 or 3 early playoff exits. He didn’t fumble an opening Kickoff for 7pts. He didn’t miss his block on a Punt block for 7pts. Just off top of my head. Matt didn’t miss all these FG and XPA attempts. Those alone likely at minimum win us a pair of Playoff games or a SB visit.

I’d defend MM the same way in 2014, he didn’t fumble a botched Onside to lose the game. Etc. Sometimes things just aren’t meant to be idk why. While there are several things he could’ve done better, I don’t think he’s singularly at fault for everything that goes wrong. I also think it’s a hard stretch to say he’s “below average”. I’d put him at above average, but to get top 5 type consideration he needs to finish better also.

 

[milani]

I still really think it’s hard to blame MLF for at least 2 or 3 early playoff exits. He didn’t fumble an opening Kickoff for 7pts. He didn’t miss his block on a Punt block for 7pts. Just off top of my head. Matt didn’t miss all these FG and XPA attempts. Those alone likely at minimum win us a pair of Playoff games or a SB visit.

I’d defend MM the same way in 2014, he didn’t fumble a botched Onside to lose the game. Etc. Sometimes things just aren’t meant to be idk why. While there are several things he could’ve done better, I don’t think he’s singularly at fault for everything that goes wrong. I also think it’s a hard stretch to say he’s “below average”. I’d put him at above average, but to get top 5 type consideration he needs to finish better also.

Those are some good arguments. Coaches put so much work into perfecting execution and one or two leaks in the **** cause a total collapse. The true skill of the coach, however, and some call it good fortune, is the ability to choose the right play and players for the right moment. And then to transcend that excellence to them for that place in time. Lombardi, Belichick, were masters at it. Not just some of the time. But nearly all of the time. Look at the magical plays made by players in decisive moments throughout Lombardi's championships and Belichick's. Compare that to the blunders made by players in very comparative contests today. You see the difference and you ask why.

 

[adambr2]

His style is definitely not the yell at people type for sure.

I am not asking for him to be Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, for sure.

But I would like to see a little more, when things are going wrong and momentum is shifting against us (like the playoffs this year), walking the sidelines, rallying the troops, keeping everyone fired up and letting them know it’s going to be okay.

 

[milani]

I am not asking for him to be Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, for sure.

But I would like to see a little more, when things are going wrong and momentum is shifting against us (like the playoffs this year), walking the sidelines, rallying the troops, keeping everyone fired up and letting them know it’s going to be okay.

He could be more like Favre in the huddle and sideline. Have some off topic comments to loosen up the unit. Have a sense of humor AND a sense of urgency. Be more emphatic.

 

[Heyjoe4]

He could be more like Favre in the huddle and sideline. Have some off topic comments to loosen up the unit. Have a sense of humor AND a sense of urgency. Be more emphatic.

Agreed. And Love has none of those qualities.

Compare to how CW rallied his team, down by 3 possessions. That’s a leader.

 

[adambr2]

Agreed. And Love has none of those qualities.

Compare to how CW rallied his team, down by 3 possessions. That’s a leader.

I cringe saying this, but I also was going to throw out the Caleb Williams comp as more of a leader type that I’d like to see JL emulate.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

I cringe saying this, but I also was going to throw out the Caleb Williams comp as more of a leader type that I’d like to see JL emulate.

Caleb Williams either has pixie dust on his hands and feet (for the plays he makes) or he is just getting to the level everyone expected of him as a #1 along with HC Johnson who frankly has shown himself to become an elite HC. At this stage IMO Love has hit his ceiling, he is who he is and will likely stay at that level of play- hope to be wrong but dont think so

 

[gopkrs]

I guess I'd like Love to show more emotion somehow. But actually I only want to see him do well. And I'm pretty sure everyone on the team knows he wants to win. Maybe he could give some individual receivers advice during the game. You know, Starr wasn't big on emotion.

 

[rmontro]

You know, Starr wasn't big on emotion.

True, but you knew damn well the team trusted him, he inspired confidence.

 

[adambr2]

True, but you knew damn well the team trusted him, he inspired confidence.

Exactly, he didn’t yell, but his leadership qualities were never in question.

 

[gopkrs]

Exactly, he didn’t yell, but his leadership qualities were never in question.

Seems like you've been saying leadership qualities are emotional. Running up and down the sidelines etc. I'm pointing out that they don't have to be. Nothing like winning to turn you into a leader. Or is it the other way around? Or is it just a feeling? One thing Starr always had was a helluva an O line.

 

[adambr2]

Seems like you've been saying leadership qualities are emotional. Running up and down the sidelines etc. I'm pointing out that they don't have to be. Nothing like winning to turn you into a leader. Or is it the other way around? Or is it just a feeling? One thing Starr always had was a helluva an O line.

Well first of all, you’re comparing QBs from entirely different eras, when the game was entirely different.

Can you be a leader without being a vocal one? I would say yes, but you better earn it, and earn the respect of your team. Starr did, I don’t think Jordan is there yet.

Finally, this team has a recent reputation of choking away games in a catastrophic manner. We’re also having a discussion on the lack of leadership that we see on this team — who is the calming presence that knows the right words to keep everyone composed when we start to face adversity? Is it Matt Lafleur? Love? Josh Jacobs? Anyone at all? Do we even have one?

Is that in any way related to why we tend to lose focus late in games and melt down? Lack of leadership and lack of confidence? Just something to think about.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I cringe saying this, but I also was going to throw out the Caleb Williams comp as more of a leader type that I’d like to see JL emulate.

Yeah it was hard for me to make that comment Adam. But it was fascinating, in a twisted way, to watch how CW behaved on the sideline with his team down so much. He didn't appear to be criticizing guys as much as inspiring them to believe a comeback was not just possible, but probably.

And I don't mean this as a major diss of Love. He's a v good QB and he is what he is as far as his on-field personality. Sam Darnold is also a bit of a wall flower, and he has a SB ring (although I saw RB Walker III was the inspirational leader for that team).

Love's un-inspiring body language is also a radical departure from Favre and Rodgers, and as fans, we'e not used to it.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well first of all, you’re comparing QBs from entirely different eras, when the game was entirely different.

Can you be a leader without being a vocal one? I would say yes, but you better earn it, and earn the respect of your team. Starr did, I don’t think Jordan is there yet.

Finally, this team has a recent reputation of choking away games in a catastrophic manner. We’re also having a discussion on the lack of leadership that we see on this team — who is the calming presence that knows the right words to keep everyone composed when we start to face adversity? Is it Matt Lafleur? Love? Josh Jacobs? Anyone at all? Do we even have one?

Is that in any way related to why we tend to lose focus late in games and melt down? Lack of leadership and lack of confidence? Just something to think about.

You hit all the right points Adam. In the end, it's about who wins the game, and how it was won. This team had a dismal 4Q performance for a lot of last season and right into the playoff loss when the Bears ran up an unbelievable 25 points - all in the Q4.

In his first season, Jacobs was the vocal leader of the offense, and that continued into his second season. But with time and injuries adding up, Jacobs won't be around long. The team needs a player to take over that sideline role - it can be an offensive or defensive player. But it has to be someone.

(And to be fair, Love has evolved into a v good QB in his three years as a starter. His stat-line is incredible, and he has cut way down on the mistakes that were so costly in his first two seasons. His completion % is up, and he's just making much better decisions. I'm glad he's on our team.)

 

[Heyjoe4]

True, but you knew damn well the team trusted him, he inspired confidence.

Starr had the intangible quality of trust. Everyone on those Lombardi teams just knew Starr would get the job done, and as a young fan, I felt that as well. He was not as emotional as Favre or Rodgers, but he led his teams to championships, just like Favre and Rodgers.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I guess I'd like Love to show more emotion somehow. But actually I only want to see him do well. And I'm pretty sure everyone on the team knows he wants to win. Maybe he could give some individual receivers advice during the game. You know, Starr wasn't big on emotion.

Agreed gopkrs. As much as I'd like to see love become a more animated leader, it's just not how he is built. He's still a very good QB and very capable of winning a SB or two.

Now he has to go out and prove it. That may not be fair, to lay it on him, but QBs are the most visible player on any team. And that visibility gets a lot brighter when they get big contracts. My expectation of Love is that he leads the team to a Lombardi trophy or two. He's certainly getting paid to do just that.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Caleb Williams either has pixie dust on his hands and feet (for the plays he makes) or he is just getting to the level everyone expected of him as a #1 along with HC Johnson who frankly has shown himself to become an elite HC. At this stage IMO Love has hit his ceiling, he is who he is and will likely stay at that level of play- hope to be wrong but dont think so

Yeah I think these are fair comments. Love has improved over the last three years as a starter, and he's been with the team for six years. I think what we see is what he's capable of - and that's a lot.

My guess though is that the Packers' path to a Lombardi is through the defense. That's not a slam on the offense. The offense has a ton of talent.

But since acquiring Parsons, the narrative has shifted a bit. It's all good - the Packers are a talented team when healthy, or even reasonably healthy. They have a legit shot at a SB this season and next. Can't look much beyond that.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I guess I'd like Love to show more emotion somehow. But actually I only want to see him do well. And I'm pretty sure everyone on the team knows he wants to win. Maybe he could give some individual receivers advice during the game. You know, Starr wasn't big on emotion.

My impression of Jordan is a lead by example kind of guy. Rather a rah rah kind of guy.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Those are some good arguments. Coaches put so much work into perfecting execution and one or two leaks in the **** cause a total collapse. The true skill of the coach, however, and some call it good fortune, is the ability to choose the right play and players for the right moment. And then to transcend that excellence to them for that place in time. Lombardi, Belichick, were masters at it. Not just some of the time. But nearly all of the time. Look at the magical plays made by players in decisive moments throughout Lombardi's championships and Belichick's. Compare that to the blunders made by players in very comparative contests today. You see the difference and you ask why.

Well said milani. Head coaches and coordinators work with the talent they have. Successful coaches like Lombardi and Bellichick deployed that talent to maximum impact. They are also inspirational leaders, each in their own way. Lombardi was very animated. Bellichick was almost the exact opposite. But they won a lot of championships.

So the best HCs know their players, their strengths and weaknesses very, very well - and then put them in a position to win. This was basically the answer new DC Gannon gave when asked what "scheme" he likes for the defense. He said he didn't have a "scheme" and his play calling was to maximize the talent he did have. So in Gannon's world there is no "one size fits all" - and I'm anxious to see how that translates to the field and to Ws.

This makes sense to me. HCs, OCs, and DCs need to be constantly creating new ways to win, down to the snap-level. It makes the team unpredictable and hard to defend, and hard to stop. It also makes it much harder on an opposing offense, not quite certain at what they may be facing.

 

[Heyjoe4]

My impression of Jordan is a lead by example kind of guy. Rather a rah rah kind of guy.

Good point. As much as I'd like to see him behave more like Caleb Williams on the sideline, that's just not who Love is.

His play should be an inspiration to the rest of the team. He ended last season playing the best ball of his three years as starter. I'm fine with letting his play speak for itself. If I was on a team with a guy like that - sports or business or personal - I would not want to let a guy like that down.

 

[gopkrs]

Well said milani. Head coaches and coordinators work with the talent they have. Successful coaches like Lombardi and Bellichick deployed that talent to maximum impact. They are also inspirational leaders, each in their own way. Lombardi was very animated. Bellichick was almost the exact opposite. But they won a lot of championships.

So the best HCs know their players, their strengths and weaknesses very, very well - and then put them in a position to win. This was basically the answer new DC Gannon gave when asked what "scheme" he likes for the defense. He said he didn't have a "scheme" and his play calling was to maximize the talent he did have. So in Gannon's world there is no "one size fits all" - and I'm anxious to see how that translates to the field and to Ws.

This makes sense to me. HCs, OCs, and DCs need to be constantly creating new ways to win, down to the snap-level. It makes the team unpredictable and hard to defend, and hard to stop. It also makes it much harder on an opposing offense, not quite certain at what they may be facing.

Not having a scheme could bode well for guys like Parsons, Cooper and Williams who all have great instincts for the ball imho. Maybe Bullard. It sure would be nice to include Hooper. We just haven't seen enough of him. So far I've been disappointed

 

[adambr2]

My impression of Jordan is a lead by example kind of guy. Rather a rah rah kind of guy.

I agree that he is, but there are times, as a leader of the team, when your opposition has scored 10 unanswered points, they’ve cut your lead in half, you can see them fired up on the sidelines, and you can feel the momentum shifting, that you need to do a little more than just be another one of the guys sitting on the bench in silence.