Matt extended

[OldSchool101]

Packer fans should know better than most how important STs can be in winning a championship. Return specialist Desmond Howard (is that the right name?) won SB MVP in the 1996-1997 season - I think.....

That 2021 loss to the 9ers was pure torture. The D didn't allow a TD, but a blocked punt was returned for a TD. 9ers 13, Packers 7. STs are very important, and I can't remember the last time the Packers had a top 10 unit. That sucks.

It’s true we have not ranked top 10 in years on Teams. Each year we find an excuse why we shouldn’t upgrade or focus on Teams. Last year it was Bo Melton. While I don’t have a problem with Bo or anyone liking him, was he really that valuable that we took our focus off upgrading Returner?

Might be time to Invest in a WR or CB who has some known “Returner” prowess. It doesn’t have to be RD2. Get a good backup CB/WR who can play “return guy” in Day 3. Just show we emphasize it for once. I might be checking that RD6-7 area for who’s legit at Returning Kicks.

Kaden Wetjen, WR Iowa
RD6-7 area. #1 in FBS in PR

Caullin Lacy, WR Louisville
As a Junior put up 1,316 yards and
7 TD’s in the lower Sunbelt in 2023. Flipped to Louisville in the ACC and logged 635 yards 2 TD’s in 2025..
but most importantly ranked #4 in the FBS in PR at 18.6 per and 2 TD’s. Likely get him with a RD7 pick.

 

[gopkrs]

For me the real tale of a good special team is how they cover. A well coached team covers well imho. A good coach should be able to come up with decent returners imo. If the team covers well; they more than likely are also taught to block well. If they can't block for kicks and punts; get another coach.

 

[rmontro]

Might be time to Invest in a WR or CB who has some known “Returner” prowess. It doesn’t have to be RD2. Get a good backup CB/WR who can play “return guy” in Day 3. Just show we emphasize it for once. I might be checking that RD6-7 area for who’s legit at Returning Kicks.

Brings back memories of Desmond Howard, that was a guy who could provide some thrills. It's a damn shame we didn't/wouldn't/couldn't have kept him after we won Super Bowl XXXI.

It seems like the Packers have a philosophy of not wanting to risk their best players by putting them on special teams. As many injuries as we seem to get every year, maybe they're right, I don't know. But then the ST squad suffers.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah. Should have kept him and definitely Andre Rison too

 

[rmontro]

Yeah. Should have kept him and definitely Andre Rison too

Oh man, I wanted them to keep Rison so bad... That team was stacked.

 

[Pkrjones]

Might be time to Invest in a WR or CB who has some known “Returner” prowess. It doesn’t have to be RD2. Get a good backup CB/WR who can play “return guy” in Day 3. Just show we emphasize it for once. I might be checking that RD6-7 area for who’s legit at Returning Kicks.

Kaden Wetjen, WR Iowa
RD6-7 area. #1 in FBS in PR

Caullin Lacy, WR Louisville
As a Junior put up 1,316 yards and
7 TD’s in the lower Sunbelt in 2023. Flipped to Louisville in the ACC and logged 635 yards 2 TD’s in 2025..
but most importantly ranked #4 in the FBS in PR at 18.6 per and 2 TD’s. Likely get him with a RD7 pick.

Both guys are 5'-9" and would instantly upgrade return game. Both could get some coaching/work in the slot to possibly take over in '27 if/when Reed leaves. I want Wetjen in the 5th, would be OK with Lacy in 7th.

 

[milani]

Yeah and there are advantages to being unflappable and stoic. He has become much cooler under pressure the last two years, and he always conveys a silent-sense that the team will do what it needs to win. So he quietly projects strength and confidence in his team, and in himself. Nothing wrong with that. He has to be true to himself.

And on many successful teams the QB does not have to be the vocal one. Ray Lewis was the voice of the strong Ravens teams. Warren Sapp was the noisemaker in Tampa Bay. And in those winning Cowboy season Aikman was not the mouthpiece his is today. He had Michael Irvin and Deion to do the chanting.

 

[milani]

For me the real tale of a good special team is how they cover. A well coached team covers well imho. A good coach should be able to come up with decent returners imo. If the team covers well; they more than likely are also taught to block well. If they can't block for kicks and punts; get another coach.

And a skilled ST coach knows that his ST will be impacted by injuries fron the offensive and defensive roster. That is where he gets to show what he can do.

 

[tynimiller]

It’s true we have not ranked top 10 in years on Teams. Each year we find an excuse why we shouldn’t upgrade or focus on Teams. Last year it was Bo Melton. While I don’t have a problem with Bo or anyone liking him, was he really that valuable that we took our focus off upgrading Returner?

Might be time to Invest in a WR or CB who has some known “Returner” prowess. It doesn’t have to be RD2. Get a good backup CB/WR who can play “return guy” in Day 3. Just show we emphasize it for once. I might be checking that RD6-7 area for who’s legit at Returning Kicks.

Kaden Wetjen, WR Iowa
RD6-7 area. #1 in FBS in PR

Caullin Lacy, WR Louisville
As a Junior put up 1,316 yards and
7 TD’s in the lower Sunbelt in 2023. Flipped to Louisville in the ACC and logged 635 yards 2 TD’s in 2025..
but most importantly ranked #4 in the FBS in PR at 18.6 per and 2 TD’s. Likely get him with a RD7 pick.

I wasn’t opposed to the thought entirely but with signing Moore we really need to not unless a UDFA type IMO

 

[Heyjoe4]

It’s true we have not ranked top 10 in years on Teams. Each year we find an excuse why we shouldn’t upgrade or focus on Teams. Last year it was Bo Melton. While I don’t have a problem with Bo or anyone liking him, was he really that valuable that we took our focus off upgrading Returner?

Might be time to Invest in a WR or CB who has some known “Returner” prowess. It doesn’t have to be RD2. Get a good backup CB/WR who can play “return guy” in Day 3. Just show we emphasize it for once. I might be checking that RD6-7 area for who’s legit at Returning Kicks.

Kaden Wetjen, WR Iowa
RD6-7 area. #1 in FBS in PR

Caullin Lacy, WR Louisville
As a Junior put up 1,316 yards and
7 TD’s in the lower Sunbelt in 2023. Flipped to Louisville in the ACC and logged 635 yards 2 TD’s in 2025..
but most importantly ranked #4 in the FBS in PR at 18.6 per and 2 TD’s. Likely get him with a RD7 pick.

They added WR Skyy Moore to handle kick returns. He's technically a WR but his main job will be returning kicks. It's about time GB invested at that position. (Nixon was an All Pro kick returner, but decided he didn't want to do them anymore. Seems like the tail wagging the dog. With Nixon, it's hard to tell what's going on in his head.)

 

[milani]

They added WR Skyy Moore to handle kick returns. He's technically a WR but his main job will be returning kicks. It's about time GB invested at that position. (Nixon was an All Pro kick returner, but decided he didn't want to do them anymore. Seems like the tail wagging the dog. With Nixon, it's hard to tell what's going on in his head.)

I think Nixon does not want to risk injury returning because it can take him off the field to play defense, which is where he wants to make his name.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think Nixon does not want to risk injury returning because it can take him off the field to play defense, which is where he wants to make his name.

I agree, and for a lot of guys, this makes sense. While Nixon may see himself as a #1 CB playing for a new contract, my take is that he is an average starting CB on a team with a weak CB group.

That's not meant as a knock on Nixon. He is very good at PBUs.

What I don't like is his lack of self-discipline. Seems Nixon is good for one truly stupid personal foul per game. I think this past season, he launched himself on top of a scrum trying to get a ball carrier down. The whistle may have blown, but even if it hadn't, this is the kind of dumb, school-yard **** he pulls every week.

He's an undisciplined punk. Sadly, he's the best CB the Packers have.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I wasn’t opposed to the thought entirely but with signing Moore we really need to not unless a UDFA type IMO

Agreed. I liked the acquisition. It seemed Gluten and/or MLF were averse to devoting a roster spot to a punt/kickoff returner.

The Packers should know as well as any team how game-changing a dynamic returner can be. (Looking at Desmond Howard in the 96-97 SB win over the Pats, where he won MVP. He is still the only STs' player to win MVP in a SB.)

 

[rmontro]

They added WR Skyy Moore to handle kick returns. He's technically a WR but his main job will be returning kicks. It's about time GB invested at that position. (Nixon was an All Pro kick returner, but decided he didn't want to do them anymore. Seems like the tail wagging the dog. With Nixon, it's hard to tell what's going on in his head.)

Sounds like the way players have so much power these days is one factor in why our STs suffer.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Sounds like the way players have so much power these days is one factor in why our STs suffer.

Agree. If MLF wants Nixon to handle returns, then he should do it. It's not like Nixon is a candidate for the Pro Bowl, much less All Pro at CB. And he is very good at returns. CB? Not so much.

 

[OldSchool101]

I wasn’t opposed to the thought entirely but with signing Moore we really need to not unless a UDFA type IMO

Yes I almost forgot. The key here is we cannot get distracted this time. It was a tough lesson last year so my hope is the focus carries through. Good point though scratch the draft pick IF we have laser like focus at the position.

I will offer it wouldn’t hurt to have a safety valve at Returner. Maybe a universal option that can do both KR/PR. It can also be a dual purpose of bolstering depth at CB or TE or WR because these guys are most often speed merchants or combo of size and speed. At CB or WR it doesn’t hurt to carry a guy that 4.4 speed at the bottom. Maybe they are thinking Melton IDK

The later 7th RD for me is really the first choice of priority UDFA types. 75%+ can be stashed on PS and not poached, so if Sky doesn’t work out? Or if Savion isn’t our answer? or either injured? We have a legit position battle already on the train.

 

[OldSchool101]

Sounds like the way players have so much power these days is one factor in why our STs suffer.

Sure. We wouldn’t want to offend them by making them help the team. I’m being silly, but listened to a sermon recently on how incredibly and easily offended we’ve all become over the smallest details. I must say I recognize it in my own walk and absolutely testify I see it in others. We pay these guys $5mil a year and it’s getting to be a thankless profession. The term “cry me river” comes to mind.

 

[milani]

I agree, and for a lot of guys, this makes sense. While Nixon may see himself as a #1 CB playing for a new contract, my take is that he is an average starting CB on a team with a weak CB group.

That's not meant as a knock on Nixon. He is very good at PBUs.

What I don't like is his lack of self-discipline. Seems Nixon is good for one truly stupid personal foul per game. I think this past season, he launched himself on top of a scrum trying to get a ball carrier down. The whistle may have blown, but even if it hadn't, this is the kind of dumb, school-yard **** he pulls every week.

He's an undisciplined punk. Sadly, he's the best CB the Packers have.

Packers over the used had to use position players to return when the designated return man got the dropsies or got injured. E.G. Herb Adderley, Willie Wood, Antonio Freeman, Don Beebe, Charles Woodson, and Tramon Williams. Micah Hyde appeared to be able to do both well.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes I almost forgot. The key here is we cannot get distracted this time. It was a tough lesson last year so my hope is the focus carries through. Good point though scratch the draft pick IF we have laser like focus at the position.

I will offer it wouldn’t hurt to have a safety valve at Returner. Maybe a universal option that can do both KR/PR. It can also be a dual purpose of bolstering depth at CB or TE or WR because these guys are most often speed merchants or combo of size and speed. At CB or WR it doesn’t hurt to carry a guy that 4.4 speed at the bottom. Maybe they are thinking Melton IDK

The later 7th RD for me is really the first choice of priority UDFA types. 75%+ can be stashed on PS and not poached, so if Sky doesn’t work out? Or if Savion isn’t our answer? or either injured? We have a legit position battle already on the train.

It is a luxury to finally have a player/roster spot devoted to kickoff and punt returns in Skyy Moore. It's not feasible to use another roster spot on a return specialist only. I'm not sure you're saying that though.

I feel better that returner was addressed by adding Moore. STs play in very involved and most guys don't get the credit they deserve for being good on STs. Kickers and returners, like QBs, get an outsized share of blame and praise for their work on STs.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Packers over the used had to use position players to return when the designated return man got the dropsies or got injured. E.G. Herb Adderley, Willie Wood, Antonio Freeman, Don Beebe, Charles Woodson, and Tramon Williams. Micah Hyde appeared to be able to do both well.

Thanks for the refresher on kick returners past milani. I don't remember Woodson returning kicks, but most DBs should be able to do it.

Don Beebe is a blast from the past. As I remember, he was JAG as WR, and very fast and very good when he was asked to return kickoffs and punts.

I am glad Gluten decided to use a roster spot for kick/punt returner and acquired Skyy Moore. The STs unit needs a lot of help, and this is a good place to start.

 

[rmontro]

Sure. We wouldn’t want to offend them by making them help the team. I’m being silly, but listened to a sermon recently on how incredibly and easily offended we’ve all become over the smallest details. I must say I recognize it in my own walk and absolutely testify I see it in others. We pay these guys $5mil a year and it’s getting to be a thankless profession. The term “cry me river” comes to mind.

Yeah, it's a far cry from the Lombardi days, when money wasn't the main factor.

Reminds me of the recent WNBA player contract dispute, we're supposed to feel so sorry for the players because they don't make as much money as the NBA players, but they don't draw like the guys do. Depending on who you believe, the league doesn't even make any profit. If that's the case, it's basically a charity. It's nice that they'll be making better money now though.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, it's a far cry from the Lombardi days, when money wasn't the main factor.

Reminds me of the recent WNBA player contract dispute, we're supposed to feel so sorry for the players because they don't make as much money as the NBA players, but they don't draw like the guys do. Depending on who you believe, the league doesn't even make any profit. If that's the case, it's basically a charity. It's nice that they'll be making better money now though.

Yeah how quickly we forget the econ 101 law on supply and demand and prices. The WNBA is not nearly the draw as the men's league. It is what it is. We all have choices in life and it sounds like many of the women in the WNBA could be better off in another profession. But it's important to like what you do.

This is being addressed somewhat. There has been a surge of interest in the last few years for women's BB, collegiate and the WNBA. Hopefully it will last.

 

[rmontro]

This is being addressed somewhat. There has been a surge of interest in the last few years for women's BB, collegiate and the WNBA. Hopefully it will last.

I like watching the girls play. But I wouldn't even be watching the WNBA except I live in Indiana, and I like the Fever squad they have. There is nothing more fun than watching Caitlin Clark run and gun, but unfortunately their current coach likes to play a slow down offense, which doesn't suit her game and has considerably less entertainment value.

 

[milani]

Thanks for the refresher on kick returners past milani. I don't remember Woodson returning kicks, but most DBs should be able to do it.

Don Beebe is a blast from the past. As I remember, he was JAG as WR, and very fast and very good when he was asked to return kickoffs and punts.

I am glad Gluten decided to use a roster spot for kick/punt returner and acquired Skyy Moore. The STs unit needs a lot of help, and this is a good place to start.

Woodson returned in 2007 early in the season. Actually fumbled a return against the Bears.

 

[rmontro]

Woodson returned in 2007 early in the season. Actually fumbled a return against the Bears.

I seem to recall when Woodson was signed, there was an understanding that the Packers would let him play WR here and there. Not sure what happened to that idea, I'm sure it was just something to induce him to sign. Maybe letting him return was a compromise of sorts?