Leighton Vander Esch vs. Brian Urlacher vs. Karlos Dansby.

[Dantés]

Well assuming the first two inside linebackers will be gone; how come the monster from Alabama doesn't get any recognition. Sounds like he could be an enforcer.

I disagree with Captain in that I think that Evans is a 1st round player, but he doesn't get as much attention because he doesn't have the freakish athleticism of the other three (though still athletic in his own right) and he doesn't offer as much coverage ability/upside that is so coveted by NFL defenses in this era. He did some nice things as an occasional edge rusher at Bama, which had me interested before the combine. But then he came in at 232 lbs, so that's really a non-starter.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I fail to see how LVE offers much to the Packers. He's too slow to cover a TE or RB and he posted only 5 sacks in 3 seasons in the Mt. West conference so he has demonstrated very little in the way of pass rush. Can he come up and play the run? Probably but it seems Martinez can handle the run game so why even bother on drafting another one trick pony.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I fail to see how LVE offers much to the Packers. He's too slow to cover a TE or RB and he posted only 5 sacks in 3 seasons in the Mt. West conference so he has demonstrated very little in the way of pass rush.

LVE would present a significant upgrade in coverage over Martinez and Ryan though.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

I fail to see how LVE offers much to the Packers. He's too slow to cover a TE or RB and he posted only 5 sacks in 3 seasons in the Mt. West conference so he has demonstrated very little in the way of pass rush. Can he come up and play the run? Probably but it seems Martinez can handle the run game so why even bother on drafting another one trick pony.

How in the hell is he slow? He was solid in coverage at Boise State. He was really a one year starter at Boise and how many sacks would you like a middle linebacker to have?

 

[AmishMafia]

How in the hell is he slow? He was solid in coverage at Boise State. He was really a one year starter at Boise and how many sacks would you like a middle linebacker to have?

10. And 5.5 his final year. You know, like Tremaine Edmunds.

 

[Sanguine camper]

LVE ran 4.65 which wont get it done vs an NFL quality TE or RB. Martinez is only slightly slower so not much if an upgrade there. Again can't see where he is much of an upgrade over Martinez. Jacobs from Wisconsin is way faster. He can cover a TE or RB. Packers can have him for a late third or early 4th round pick and add a skill set to the team that they currently don't have which is a LB that can flat out run. I would take LVE in the 4th round but not sooner since he would be a big liability in the passing game.

 

[Sanguine camper]

10. And 5.5 his final year. You know, like Tremaine Edmunds.

LVE ran a 4.65. That's slow compared to a RB or good NFL tight end.

 

[AmishMafia]

LVE ran a 4.65. That's slow compared to a RB or good NFL tight end.

I was responding to beard's question on how many sacks were required by an ILB. Mostly tongue in cheek as my preference is Edmund's for ILB.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

LVE ran 4.65 which wont get it done vs an NFL quality TE or RB. Martinez is only slightly slower so not much if an upgrade there. Again can't see where he is much of an upgrade over Martinez. Jacobs from Wisconsin is way faster. He can cover a TE or RB. Packers can have him for a late third or early 4th round pick and add a skill set to the team that they currently don't have which is a LB that can flat out run. I would take LVE in the 4th round but not sooner since he would be a big liability in the passing game.

Holy f-ing Sh---it. The 4th round?!!! Ok, I'll just ignore football scouts and multiple organizations that have him easily ranked mid-to-late first. They obviously should consult you before making their big boards. LVE was in the 90th percentile in coverage. Also, Jordan Hicks was graded as the best coverage linebacker in 2017 by a large margin. He ran a 4.68 40 yard dash.... guess he's garbage. I'd say Lavonte David is pretty good in coverage... ran a 4.65 at the combine, same as LVE. You know who's also pretty good? Sean Lee, he ran a 4.71. KJ Wright was known to blow up screens and was pretty good at covering tight ends like Jimmy Graham, he ran a 4.75. Kiko Alonso ran a 4.74. NaVorro Bowman 4.7... I could go on, but here's a source for Hicks destroying opposing quarterback's passer rating:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/862316308704223233/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://insidetheiggles.com/2017/05/10/jordan-hicks-named-nfls-best-coverage-linebacker-pff/

Oh and third on that list... Keenan Robinson with a blazing 4.79.... followed by Vontaze Burfict at... wait for it... 5.09. WHAT. Maybe, just maybe, speed isn't everything there buddy. And to be completely honest, 4.65 is a pretty damn good time for a linebacker. Here's a great read on the new breed of NFL linebacker, guys like Edmunds and LVE:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...ave-of-the-future-at-the-linebacker-position/

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

10. And 5.5 his final year. You know, like Tremaine Edmunds.

Leighton had 4 sacks last year, Edmunds had 5.5... Leighton only played 6 games his sophomore year and had one sack, Edmunds played 13 and had 4.5. Edmunds played outside and inside so I would expect this stat should be a tad higher. However, LVE had 91 solo tackles last year and Edmunds had 57....

As far as coverage, Edmunds had 1 interception in 2 years, LVE had 3. That includes getting one while only playing 6 games in 2016.

Overall PFF has LVE at a 90.5, Roquan at a 90.6, and Edmunds at 87.4.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

LVE ran 4.65 which wont get it done vs an NFL quality TE or RB. Martinez is only slightly slower so not much if an upgrade there. Again can't see where he is much of an upgrade over Martinez. Jacobs from Wisconsin is way faster. He can cover a TE or RB. Packers can have him for a late third or early 4th round pick and add a skill set to the team that they currently don't have which is a LB that can flat out run. I would take LVE in the 4th round but not sooner since he would be a big liability in the passing game.

There's no way LVE will drop to the fourth round. While he doesn't have the same range as Smith or Edmunds his coverage is solid.

 

[AmishMafia]

Leighton had 4 sacks last year, Edmunds had 5.5... Leighton only played 6 games his sophomore year and had one sack, Edmunds played 13 and had 4.5. Edmunds played outside and inside so I would expect this stat should be a tad higher. However, LVE had 91 solo tackles last year and Edmunds had 57....

As far as coverage, Edmunds had 1 interception in 2 years, LVE had 3. That includes getting one while only playing 6 games in 2016.

Overall PFF has LVE at a 90.5, Roquan at a 90.6, and Edmunds at 87.4.

If LVE was a better player, he would have played in more games as a sophmore.

He wont last to the 4th or the 3rd round for that matter. But I think there is a shot that he goes in the middle of the 2nd. It's a numbers game. There are 20 guys who will definitely go in the first and 30 more guys who 'should' go in the first. LVE could be one of the odd men out.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

If LVE was a better player, he would have played in more games as a sophmore.

He wont last to the 4th or the 3rd round for that matter. But I think there is a shot that he goes in the middle of the 2nd. It's a numbers game. There are 20 guys who will definitely go in the first and 30 more guys who 'should' go in the first. LVE could be one of the odd men out.

Oh he could, but we're seeing the same thing with Josh Jackson. He only played one year, but people have him as one of the top corners. I don't think playing only one year means they're not a top tier player. We've seen one teams big board where he was ranked as their 15th best player overall. He's up there on a lot of teams boards and I'd like to think they know what they are doing. I can't see him slipping past the early second.

 

[AmishMafia]

Oh he could, but we're seeing the same thing with Josh Jackson. He only played one year, but people have him as one of the top corners. I don't think playing only one year means they're not a top tier player. We've seen one teams big board where he was ranked as their 15th best player overall. He's up there on a lot of teams boards and I'd like to think they know what they are doing. I can't see him slipping past the early second.

I'm definitely still on the Josh Jackson band wagon. His skillset, although hasn't played long, is already very good. I think he would start day 1 and be at least solid. I am not worried about the slow 40. If he can develop some physical play to press coverage, he would be outstanding. But the guy understands the passing game and puts himself in a position to make plays.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

I'm definitely still on the Josh Jackson band wagon. His skillset, although hasn't played long, is already very good. I think he would start day 1 and be at least solid. I am not worried about the slow 40. If he can develop some physical play to press coverage, he would be outstanding. But the guy understands the passing game and puts himself in a position to make plays.

He's definitely around the ball a lot and he pretty fluid which are great traits for a corner. Corners can definitely learn to play press, but sometimes they never truly get comfortable jamming on the line, which leads to blown coverage. Jackson could go either way, but he's definitely an athlete. The 40 time does worry me a little though. If he's not comfortable in press, he's going to need to recover and speed definitely helps when you're out of position. I'd still rather have Ward, Davis, or Oliver, but I absolutely wouldn't be mad with Jackson.

Edit: To clarify, Jackson looks fluid during games, he looked a little stiff at the combine.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He's definitely around the ball a lot and he pretty fluid which are great traits for a corner. Corners can definitely learn to play press, but sometimes they never truly get comfortable jamming on the line, which leads to blown coverage. Jackson could go either way, but he's definitely an athlete. The 40 time does worry me a little though. If he's not comfortable in press, he's going to need to recover and speed definitely helps when you're out of position. I'd still rather have Ward, Davis, or Oliver, but I absolutely wouldn't be mad with Jackson.

In my opinion it's debatable whether Ward is a more talented prospect than Jackson but I would definitely consider Davis and Oliver a tier below them.

 

[Dantés]

In my opinion it's debatable whether Ward is a more talented prospect than Jackson but I would definitely consider Davis and Oliver a tier below them.

As usual, a less than stellar forty time is having an outsized impact on how people perceive a player’s athleticism. Jackson’s 4.56 wasn’t great, but it’s workable. The rest of his results demonstrate quite a bit of religious ability for a bigger corner.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

In my opinion it's debatable whether Ward is a more talented prospect than Jackson but I would definitely consider Davis and Oliver a tier below them.

I definitely think Ward is better at this stage than Jackson, but I would agree Davis and Oliver are a 1/2 peg below Jackson at this stage. I just think they are better press corners than Jackson and would fit with a press scheme better.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

As usual, a less than stellar forty time is having an outsized impact on how people perceive a player’s athleticism. Jackson’s 4.56 wasn’t great, but it’s workable. The rest of his results demonstrate quite a bit of religious ability for a bigger corner.

40 time shouldn't matter that much for a corner who is completely technically sound, but it matters when you need to recover. I don't think Jackson is that technically sound enough at this stage in his career that he won't need to rely on some speed to recover.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I definitely think Ward is better at this stage than Jackson, but I would agree Davis and Oliver are a 1/2 peg below Jackson at this stage. I just think they are better press corners than Jackson and would fit with a press scheme better.

You have to realize that even defensive coordinators that like to use press coverage have their team line up in zone coverage on the majority of the snaps.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

You have to realize that even defensive coordinators that like to use press coverage have their team line up in zone coverage on the majority of the snaps.

Oh I definitely do. I'm just saying it's very obvious when a corner isn't comfortable in press man.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm just saying it's very obvious when a corner isn't comfortable in press man.

In my opinion based on the percentage of teams using zone coverage a cornerback like Jackson can be successful at the pro level even while not feeling comfortable in press coverage entering the league.

 

[GleefulGary]

In my opinion based on the percentage of teams using zone coverage a cornerback like Jackson can be successful at the pro level even while not feeling comfortable in press coverage entering the league.

Of course.

The question is whether we're one of those teams...and that is very debatable.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The question is whether we're one of those teams...and that is very debatable.

Only one team has used man coverage on the majority over the snaps over the past two seasons (2017 Chiefs). It's questionable if the Packers will become another one in 2018.

 

[GleefulGary]

Only one team has used man coverage on the majority over the snaps over the past two seasons (2017 Chiefs). It's questionable if the Packers will become another one in 2018.

I understand that.

But it's still going to be used at least 30% of the time, probably closer to 40%.

A guy who could struggle on 30-40% of our lineups might not be the best choice.

I'm not saying that Jackson is that guy or not, but that's what the argument is. Not that only teams who play majority press will care, but how much will it effect them?