Jerry Kramer HOF Chances

[bhuggins]

Saw this in Peter King's MMQB article this week concerning the HOF chances for Jerry Kramer. It's point #7 in the Ten Things I Think I Think section....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/11/27/week.12/4.html

While he makes some good points on why Jerry may not get in I have to disagree on a few of his points..

Gale Gillingham, while a great player, never seriously threatened Kramer's status till very late in Jerry's career and Fuzzy played the left guard position as opposed to Kramer's right side.

Also, the key word here is FAME, as in FAMOUS. Jerry Kramer is one of the most famous names to ever play Guard in the NFL. Five World Championships, the lead pulling guard on the FAMOUS Packers' Sweep. AND he made probably the most famous block on the winning TD plunge against the Cowboys in the most famous championship game ever played, the ICE Bowl.

The Hall of Fame is filled with players that don't have nearly the name recognition or the success of Kramer. The argument that there are too many Packers from that era in the HOF already is lame and inexcuseable. He deserves a spot. Let's hope he finally gets his due before it's too late.

 

[Dan115]

I think his book hurt him with his peers. Made a few enemies.

 

[ivo610]

The writers of his era saw him play, heard his case many times, and still never felt he should be in the hall. Peter is dead on.

 

[Dan115]

I think Kramer should be in. Power sweep was Jerry. Hornung,Taylor and Starr would not be in the Hall without Kramer.

 

[ivo610]

Hornung,Taylor and Starr would not be in the Hall without Kramer.

Complete speculation and imo complete nonsense. One player didnt make Bart Starr, Hornung or Taylor. Are you saying Vince couldnt have coached someone else into a pro bowl player or at worst an average player in that position? By saying they wouldnt be in the Hall implies they wouldnt have won as many championships. Complete nonsense.

 

[bhuggins]

Well, he must have been pretty decent because he made the list of the 50 greatest players of all-time. Some sportswriters are just reluctant to vote a player in simply because they feel there are too many players from one team already inducted. That is complete nonsense. A guy should not be penalized for that reason.

There is a long list of very talented and famous players not in the HOF that certainly are deserving and some that are in because of one bight shining moment like Joe Namath. I can think of a couple quarterbacks more deserving of the HOF than Namath.... Ken Stabler and Ken Anderson were both better than Broadway Joe. But, because he played in the Big Apple and had the distinction of predicting and winning Super Bowl III he was voted in.

 

[maxlives]

Jerry was one of the core members of those championship teams of the 60's, if Coach Lombardi thought enough of him to start him through those years I believe he belongs in the HoF, period. But I'm biased.

 

[Dan115]

Complete speculation and imo complete nonsense. One player didnt make Bart Starr, Hornung or Taylor. Are you saying Vince couldnt have coached someone else into a pro bowl player or at worst an average player in that position? By saying they wouldnt be in the Hall implies they wouldnt have won as many championships. Complete nonsense.

I disagree ---IMO (which according to you is complete nonsense) In my bubbling complete nonsense a vast majority of the 1960's Packer HOF players would never make it to Canton if Lombardi was not their coach. How many blocks or tackles did Lombardi throw in his days in Green Bay? Lombardi pushed these players to greatness. Kramer was one of the best during his playing days.
Here is some more of my complete nonsense---- Kramer was an All Pro 5 times. Selected to NFL's 50 th Anniversary All Time team. He was selected to the NFL's All Decade Team for the 1960's. When Hornung was on able to play in 63 Kramer filled in as the place kicker also. Scored 91 points that season.
At to top it off with complete speculation and nonsense IMO a major block in the selection of Kramer to the HOF is because of his book. He made some enemies.

Anyway I respect your opinion.

Your truly,

A Fellow Packer Backer

 

[ivo610]

I disagree ---IMO (which according to you is complete nonsense) In my bubbling complete nonsense a vast majority of the 1960's Packer HOF players would never make it to Canton if Lombardi was not their coach. How many blocks or tackles did Lombardi throw in his days in Green Bay? Lombardi pushed these players to greatness. Kramer was one of the best during his playing days.
Here is some more of my complete nonsense---- Kramer was an All Pro 5 times. Selected to NFL's 50 th Anniversary All Time team. He was selected to the NFL's All Decade Team for the 1960's. When Hornung was on able to play in 63 Kramer filled in as the place kicker also. Scored 91 points that season.
At to top it off with complete speculation and nonsense IMO a major block in the selection of Kramer to the HOF is because of his book. He made some enemies.

Anyway I respect your opinion.

Your truly,

A Fellow Packer Backer

So Lombardi was the reason most of these guys being in the Hall but he wouldnt have been able to find another Guard and coach him up?

I feel like you are taking away from Starr Hornung and Taylor when you say they wouldnt be in the hall without Kramer.

 

[Dan115]

So Lombardi was the reason most of these guys being in the Hall but he wouldnt have been able to find another Guard and coach him up?

I feel like you are taking away from Starr Hornung and Taylor when you say they wouldnt be in the hall without Kramer.

Just my opinion. Everyone has one. Kramer is the ONLY member of the NFL's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team that is NOT in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Fuzzy, the other guard injuried his back and was not as fast as Kramer. I also don't think Hornung would be in the Hall without Taylor or vice-versa.
Hornung was a tremendous blocker which often times overlooked.
Don't get me wrong I think Starr,Hornung and Taylor were all great players. I thought enough of them to name my only son Bart Taylor. And yet Hornung was my favorite player.

 

[ivo610]

Just my opinion. Everyone has one. Kramer is the ONLY member of the NFL's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team that is NOT in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Fuzzy, the other guard injuried his back and was not as fast as Kramer. I also don't think Hornung would be in the Hall without Taylor or vice-versa.
Hornung was a tremendous blocker which often times overlooked.
Don't get me wrong I think Starr,Hornung and Taylor were all great players. I thought enough of them to name my only son Bart Taylor. And yet Hornung was my favorite player.

Yes thats correct, but I never got the memo that stated the 50th anniversary team was a 1st class ticket to Canton. To be fair the 50th anniversary list was complied in 1969 and the 75th anniversary list doesnt have 2 players in the hall Ray Guy and Billy White Shoes Johnson, yet you dont hear their argument grouped in with the same reasoning.

Jerry also had his shot in front of the voters for years and had his case heard in 1974, 1975, 1976, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1987, and 1997 in front of the committee. Obviously the people who followed his career did not feel he was good enough. Again, its the hall of fame, not the hall of very good. Not everyone can get in. I would say playing in the NFL today only 7 players are 1st ballot locks.

You want a real HOF injustice? Jim Tyrer. More pro bowls, more all pros than Jerry Kramer, yet has had his case heard only 1 time. He has more pro bowls and All pros than any other player on the NFL networks top 10 list. Yet you wont find anyone to take up his cause. Im sure google can provide you with insight why.

 

[Dan115]

Yes thats correct, but I never got the memo that stated the 50th anniversary team was a 1st class ticket to Canton. To be fair the 50th anniversary list was complied in 1969 and the 75th anniversary list doesnt have 2 players in the hall Ray Guy and Billy White Shoes Johnson, yet you dont hear their argument grouped in with the same reasoning.

Jerry also had his shot in front of the voters for years and had his case heard in 1974, 1975, 1976, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1987, and 1997 in front of the committee. Obviously the people who followed his career did not feel he was good enough. Again, its the hall of fame, not the hall of very good. Not everyone can get in. I would say playing in the NFL today only 7 players are 1st ballot locks.

You want a real HOF injustice? Jim Tyrer. More pro bowls, more all pros than Jerry Kramer, yet has had his case heard only 1 time. He has more pro bowls and All pros than any other player on the NFL networks top 10 list. Yet you wont find anyone to take up his cause. Im sure google can provide you with insight why.

I am bias. I only care about Packer players.

 

[ivo610]

I would like to hear Peters take on Kevin Greene's chances though. He should be in soon I hope.

 

[Dan115]

I would like to hear Peters take on Kevin Greene's chances though. He should be in soon I hope.

I will agree with you on this one. Again I am only interested because he is now a Packer. Even if just a coach.

 

[gwh11]

I used to automatically think Kramer deserved election to Canton, but when I read King's article yesterday I admit I have second thoughts. I think King raises some good points. Despite fewer accolades, I think Gillingham may actually deserve the nod over Kramer. And Ken Bowman has had a few interesting things to say about Kramer's Ice Bowl block...

 

[Dan115]

I used to automatically think Kramer deserved election to Canton, but when I read King's article yesterday I admit I have second thoughts. I think King raises some good points. Despite fewer accolades, I think Gillingham may actually deserve the nod over Kramer. And Ken Bowman has had a few interesting things to say about Kramer's Ice Bowl block...

Gillingham was stronger and faster than Kramer. Kramer was a very smart player and was able to take advantage of the slightest weakness of the opponents defensive tackle. I do think Kramer's book hurt him. And yes he did NOT recognize Ken Bowman's help on his famous Instant Replay Block.