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How do Bad teams stay Bad?

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by Robin Yount, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    This is the kind of nonsense that is becoming more tiresome than watching the Pack struggle week after week. There are a bloody lot of people on this forum that need to grow up already.

    Packnic:

    Normally I wouldn't acknowledge your utter and complete ignorance with a reply. However your constant posts claiming some of us aren't Packer fans unless we goose-step behind TT is becoming extremely tiresome. Why don't you actually try to finish a high-school history class? Maybe then you might begin to understand why our forefathers gave their lives so we would have the freedom, and the right, to criticize the things we do not agree with. Just because you think TT and MM are doing a good job does not mean that they are, nor does it mean that the rest of us agree with your selfish "holier than thou" assessment. A true fan will question the decisions made by teams management when they feel they are not in the best interest of the organization. This is not unlike a true patriot who will question the decisions of their government when they feel they are not in the best interest of society. In short: Get a life, already. :roll:

    Mods:

    If you want to impose a 2 day, 2 month or permanent ban on me for telling things exactly as I see them, go ahead. I really don't care to read a forum where you are expected to toe the party line or face expulsion, especially when the "party line" is being dictated by complete idiots such as the ones above.
     
  2. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Anabis - Good post. I'm getting tired of all the constant bickering and the immature namecalling. Ryan needs to do his job and put a stop to this once and for all. If not, I'm looking for another forum. It's like a bunch of kids instead of a football fan forum.
     
  3. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    Anubis, this isn't an issue of towing the party line.

    it's about 2 opposite sides of the fence being completely intolerant of each other. that leads to childish personal grudges, constant bickering, and posts and threads made for the sole purpose of getting a reaction. it ALWAYS takes 2 to tango.

    take for instance the post that lead to the Viking fan comment, which got you so riled up.

    do you think pyle honestly believes that, or is it possible that he wanted a reaction out of somebody? it's a pretty rediculous statement, just like telling a Packer fan to go be a Viking fan.
    _____________________________________________________________

    if you want to find somewhere else to post, i can't stop you. but please don't call your fellow Packer fans/Packerforum members idiots again. thats something i actually have control over.

    thanks.
     
  5. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    First off, I made the comment not to encite but basically I think it's not far from true. You see Arrow there is a big difference here. I made a comment about Ted Thompson, it wasn't directed at any other member of this board. It was then followed up by a comment DIRECTED AT ME! He could have responded with TED THOMPSON IS THE GREATEST GM EVER and we could have bickered back and forth but instead he attacked me.


    It's the kind of stuff that happens on here all the time. I try to stick to mostly football related stuff, whether I bash TT or not, it's not personal attacks til I am insulted first. Then it gets turned into me being a "problem child' because I won't back down to these internet tough guys.


    I don't get it, sorry. I don't get how I can be suspended for calling someone a loser but yet Trom can come on here and call me a Fukkin Idiot amongst hundereds of other names and it's just OK? I don't get how noone cares how every post turns into me being a coach and insulting me trying to teach young men the game of football. It's ridiculous and so is the "selective tolerance" that goes on here.


    I like this place, I really do, but if different opinions aren't going to be allowed here state it upfront. Sure, you will say "we welcome different opinions" and you do until you refuse to let 2-3 other members with different opinions shut you up. I talk football until one of these 'heroes' tries to flex there Packer Forum muscles by insulting me personally. That's what happens and if you don't see it perhaps it's because you don't want to. Go over Packnic's post and see how many of them actually contain anything about football without an insult to me. Yeah, it's just overlooked.


    Instead of lumping me in with guys bickering back and forth why don't you look at where things go wrong. Should I just cower down to keep the forum free of all this shitt? It's amazing that you can't find the bad apples here, in fact, I think you know it and for whatever reason tolerate over and over again because you agree with there side or are buddy buddy with em.


    I by no means intended to offend you Mods but something just ain't right with this. If you want me to leave just ask. I don't live for this as much as others seem to. I can promise you however that until the ridiculous non football insults toward me stop, or are enforced, that I'm not backing down.
     
  6. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Lousy teams are "built" on a foundation of stupidity.

    It starts at the top with ownership/management who want profit first, victories second. The Bengals and the Cardinals are great examples. Until the Browns and Bidwells finally realized the fan base was about to revolt, they simply let their best talent go when they wanted market price on contracts. So a Pro Bowler is replaced by a second-teamer or rookie. Over time, the team gets a rep among players as being 'cheap', so the best talent won't consider going there. Notice when the Browns and Bidwells finally opened their wallets, things started happening. But it's just as bad the other way: the Dan Snyders, Al Davis' and Jerry Jones'. They throw money around like confetti, yet have only produced middling results. The also are control freak meddlers in the day-to-day operations.
    The key is a dedicated ownership with a feel for the players: the Rooneys in Pittsburgh are an example. By the way, Pittsburgh has been a playoff regular and won the Super Bowl last year.

    The next point of success is talent evaluation. This is a little mystical, but it mainly is having a keen eye for talent...THAT CAN PLAY ON THE PRO LEVEL... A key problem is many people forget that just because you can master the college level, the pro game is very different. The one or two great players on the other college team are drafted into the NFL where most of the players were great players. The majority of NFL players weren't superstars in college...but the skils they have...like speed...are skills which translate to the NFL. Dumbness...A. Carroll style...is also a factor. The player has to be smart, fast and tough and willing to play hurt. The season is also 16+ games instead of 13 max. It's long and brutal. The best personnel evaluators look for specific traits that translate to the pro level. Some are better at it than others. Ron Wolf had the knack in the lower rounds of finding quality players. The Bears GM-Angelo-has the same ability. Funny, both teams were/are winners.

    The last key is solid coaching. The pro game requires a coaching staff to deal with guaranteed contracts which means you play a player because of investment, rather, at times, than ability. It puts a new wrinkle into the formula. The best coaching staffs put down a line of demanded performance and say meet it or don't play, regardless of contract.

    There's much more, but if you find managers/owners dedicated to winning in the era of the salary cap...personnel people capable of finding PRO LEVEL TALENT....and coaches who drive talented players to the level the expect...you will find a winner.

    Notice I put personnel evaluation above coaching. In the NFL it's all about talent. Great coaching with mediocre talent will only produce middling results. Lousy coaching with great talent will do the same. But great coaching with great talent puts you into the big show.

    Start comparing the Packers and others to the above levels and see where they measure up.
     
  7. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Pyle the comment wasn't necessary especially since you new what type of response it would get with the current state of this board. You didn't attack anyone but you new what you were doing at the same time by making the comment. It's the little things like the comment you made and them taking it literally that keep the on going tension between yourself, Trom, Packnic and whoever going. All 3 of you need to agree to disagree and move on.
     
  8. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    that was my point.

    pyle...when i quoted your comment, i wasn't trying to paint you as the source of all things wrong with packerforum. it was one example of how this particular thread got where it is. i chose this thread because Anubis addressed the mods in it, thats the only reason. there are countless examples all over this place where you weren't the firestarter...i'm completely aware of that.

    if tromadz called you a f***** idiot after we started the 2 day suspensions, i definitely missed it, which is quite possible. if you can find it, let me know and he'll take a break.

    as far as my relationship with tromadz and zero, we've been at odds countless times and it's pretty well documented. if i was doling out special privileges, it wouldn't work in their favor. regardless, i don't think like that, and i wouldn't subject any members here to unfair treatment because i have a personal issue with them.

    as far as my views on our GM, i'm on the fence with him. a lot of the last minute moves have left me scratching my head, but i think this for and against stuff is a bit extreme for me. if i moderated according to my views, there would be 3 people posting here. i don't.

    i hope that cleared some things up.
     
  9. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Arrow:

    I was away hunting for a couple days and was away from thie forum. Quite honestly, I was expecting to be banned when I returned, but seeing as you posted a reply, I feel I should at the very least acknowledge it.

    Arrow,

    I have expressed my sentiments toward TT in the past, and since that time I have found I like him even less, however I do not try to turn every single thread into TT debate. Letely it seems any type of criticism directed at TT (or MM for that matter) results in one of the following replies:

    You are not a fan because you question the Packers management.
    You would do no better as GM so quit complaining.
    You are a Viking fan trolling this forum.
    You are a whiner and complainer and don't deserve to be a Packer fan in the first place.

    And my personal favourite:

    You are the ENEMY. (see Packnic's post above)

    Now granted it "takes two to tango", but I personally have not seen any of the more rabid anti-TT posters result to this kind of infantile behaviour. Pyle and Chamuko are probably the two foremost posters in this regard, yet I do not see them post inflammatory statements directed at other posters unless they are directly attacked first.

    The main difference between Pyle's post and Packnic's is that Pyle's comments were directed toward the GM of the Packer's organization, while Packnic's comments were directed at Pyle himself. Somehow, I don't see how a critical comment about TT warrants such a reaction, and neither does a lot of people fed up with this kind of behaviour on the forum.

    Personally, I don't care if someone is pro-TT or anti-TT. However, this "with us or against us" mentality is seriously affecting the quality of this forum. Many of us are tired of it, and the end result are posts like the one I made above.

    Regardless of what the root cause is, I would like to point out that an ignore feature would eliminate 98% of the problems this forum has been experiencing lately.
     
  10. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Anubis, you are dead on.

    What I do know is that "ignore" WILL be in the next version of the software update for this forum; unfortunately, no idea when it will be out.

    I gotta agree though, getting based based on your view is friggin tiring.
     
  11. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    i agree that the personal attacks are tiring, but to blame me alone for it is ridiculous... to say that you, pyle, chamuko and tomallen are not posting personal repsonses is a straight up lie. i mostly respond to stuff that calls me out for being a TT lover. so it goes both ways. and quite frankly (in my stephen *** smith voice) i find it ridiculous that i get bashed for cheering on my team.

    my only problem is that most of the TT bashers refuse to accept anything he does, and it makes us as a franchise look like the Lions even though we only had one freakin bad season.

    I do not and never will say TT is perfect. but i dont disagree with everything he does just to disagree and be a hater. The man was picked by wolf and co. and has a credible past . Why is it so hard to give him a chance. Because bashing him only makes it harder for you to get back on the bandwagon when we are good.
     
  12. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    And Pyle never directs any personal comments towards anyone elses opinions?

    The BIGGEST problem is that posts like that should be put in the appropriate threads.

    This thread is about teams continuously at the bottom year in year out. You have to go back to the '80's and that GM to discuss how the Packers relate to this subject.

    The tiresome part of all of this is it doesn't matter what the thread is about people use it to CONTINUALLY reiterate their position over and over and over.

    I"m starting to wonder if this is a Packer fan forum or a bunch of energizer bunnies.

    I for one, pledge to keep my comments as they relate to the thread as a courtesy to those here that really DON"T CARE to hear the bickering.

    Don't fret. Some idiot will throw a thread in here related to TT and MS and we can continue our bloodletting there and those that don't want any part of it just don't open it up.
     
  13. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    So now you accuse us of being Bandwagon fans? Amazing!

    Packnic, I'm sorry but I don't attack you personally until you do so to me, and you do it often. It's constantly COACH this or COACH that. You state that "ANYONE CAN BE A COACH" and on and on. What the hell does this have to do with GB Packer football?


    Perhaps we just disagree with Ted Thompson. I find it hard to find any good moves by Ted Thompson, not because I want to BASH him but because I just can't find any. Perhaps Nick Collins is the only move TT has made that I think I can give him credit for at this time. It just doesn't seem to me TT is very competent and it's clearly showing on the field. What other move has TT made that has drastically improved this team?
     
  14. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Warhawk the title of this thread is "how do bad teams stay bad"
    Discussing this topic kind of leads to Ted Thompson.


    And no, I don't direct PERSONAL comments at anyone until they do it to me first!
     
  15. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    the reason coaching was brought up was because you used it a while back as evidence your posting must be right. the reason we bring it up is because like you just said.... it has nothing to do with NFL or packer football. so me and trom thought it was both hilarious and stupid for you to validate your points by saying you were a coach. so we made fun of it. sorry coach, wont happen again. ooops just kiddin man... lets all relax a little and get ready for a Lion beat down.
     

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