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Good Coaches-Bad Coaches

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by IPBprez, Jun 14, 2005.

  1. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Monday, June 13, 2005

    Good Coaches-Bad Coaches
    [​IMG]

    by Jerry in Connecticut
    For PackerChatters

    First, I would like to point out that getting a new defensive coordinator is not the only change the Packers made this year. They also have new defensive line coaches and new defensive backfield coaches as well.

    As for the defensive line coach, I would have to say that nobody is better than Jethro Franklin. I mean that very literally. If they would have had nobody as defensive line coach. That would have been better than having Jethro Franklin. I think he was the one coach on the entire Packers coaching staff that got in the way of players and prevented them from developing. He was terrible.

    Next, is the Slowik issue. Is Slowik a great coach or a lousy coach? I would have to lean toward lousy. He is thought of around the league as a defensive genius. The problem was, he wasn't coaching defensive geniuses. He isn't a great communicator, and did nothing to fire up his players. I have no doubt he has a great mind, he simply failed to get that across to anyone. It is a little like hiring Shakespeare to teach kids English. Slowik had them working on sonnets when many of them didn't know the alphabet. Geniuses often focus on the esoteric and neglect the fundamentals.

    Now it is completely possible to be a great coach and a lousy coach at the same time. Most of you guys are old enough to remember Billy Martin the old Yankees and Oakland A's manager that died a few years ago. Billy was both a great coach and a lousy coach (which is why he got fired several times and won manager of the year a couple of times). Billy over managed (or what some people refer to as micromanaged). He would tell players what to do every second of every game. That worked great when he had very young players that didn't understand some of the nuances of the game, but would grate on (and demotivate) the veterans he managed at other times. Billy never changed his style to adapt to the players so he was a great manager for a young club and a lousy manager with a veteran club.

    Our DB coach last year (Shottenheimer) was the exact opposite. He was a very laisez-fire (leave them alone) kind of coach. He would have been a very good coach with a very veteran secondary (which is what the Packers thought they had when they hired him). With the Slowik system last year, even the veterans we did have didn't quite understand it and really needed some guidance, but that is not Shottenheimer's style. Does that make him a bad coach? I don't think so, it just made him a bad coach for the situation he was in. Now the problem is that we have some very talented yound DBs that didn't really develop last year. That is why Ahmad still looks very much like a rookie.

    If you remember the talk last year about this time, Slowik's whole defensive scheme was designed around Darren Sharper. Darren was supposed to be THE GUY. Everything about the defense was supposed to be geared toward letting Sharper make plays. Because Sharper was clearly the highest paid defensive player last year and was due for a big raise this year, it was really the only way that the Pack could justify Darren's salary. It really put Sharper in a make or break situation and he crumbled. Sharper went from a pretty slow start, to being injured so the scheme really never had a chance. While I believe that Slowik is likely a defensive genius, I would argue that any defense that was designed around any one player is ill conceived. I think Sherman the General Manager had a much bigger hand in this than Sherman the Head Coach. If it had worked, the Packers would have been able to keep Sharper this year, salary and all.

    So, did we have bad coaches last year? Jethro Franklin was bad, but the others were just bad for the situation. In spite of all the talk about the Packers getting old, they really are a pretty young team. No where is that truer than on defense. We have a defense where the players need to develop and need to focus on fundamentals. We need a scheme that is easy enough to let the players focus on their fundamentals. So, not only is Bates a great coach, he is the right coach for this team at this time. But he isn't the only change this year. It also looks like we made a major up grade on almost every assistant coach on the defense.

    ==================================

    Jerry - tell us how ya really feel....!

    IPBprez comment: Anyone who knows me can tell you that I do NOT like Marty Schottenheimer - call it a personal problem, I don't care - the SD playoff game last year alone is a perfect definition of how bad a Coach that guy is.... totally!

    Glad to know the Packers NEVER tried to bring him to Lambeau!
    It ws bad enuf, as he points out.... to have a relative of his on the Team. When I think of Marty.. I think of Tom Rossley - mirror images, completely! Both lean towards PREVENT Football... which always demonstrates you would rather lose! NO GUTS ! ! !

    Good write-up from PackerChatters.com!
     
  2. NCPackerfan

    NCPackerfan Cheesehead

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    I guess Al Harris understands sonnets because he swore the defensive shortcomings last year were the players fault and not Slowiks.

    No matter how much better Bates will be at communicating to his players, I still feel we are going to need a player or two to step up and be the coach on the field. A lot of adjustments are made on the field just before the snap of the ball. Bates can't be out there making calls on the field. As Jerry in Connecticut pointed out, Sharper was supposed to be the GUY last year, but he failed miserably. Who on the current roster is a likely candidate to be the GUY this year? Barnett's a likely candidate, but he's still very young and may not be playing the same position as he did last year. Harris is a high energy player and a veteran, but he doesn't seem interested in assuming a leadership role. Roman? Naaah, lets just see if he can tackle somebody. Maybe one of the new safeties, Freeman/Little will show something in training camp. I don't know enough about either one of them.
     
  3. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    I think you will see Barnett make a huge jump from his second year as a pro. He will still be playing middle from what I'm hearing and he can and will be a leader on this defense (hopefully this year)!
     
  4. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

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    A leader is something the defense has needed for a number of years. Sharper was no leader IMO. He liked to hear himself talk more then anything. Freeman and Barnett are possibilities.
     
  5. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Agreed. Sharper was quick patting himself on the back and talking smack in the press with nothing on the field to back it up! I always tried to justify Sharper to people that would say these things about him but hindsight is 20-20. Looking back on the last couple years, he flat out didn't produce for the Packers. Can't wait to see him locked up with one of our receivers in the slot and see his slow #SS try to cover any of them! :lol:
     
  6. ArizonaPackerFan

    ArizonaPackerFan Cheesehead

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    I agree with his take on Slowik. To me Slowik was kind of like a bookworm who knows the book cover to cover, but doesn't know how to get his hands dirty to get the job done. That's why I like Bates. He's in there with the players mixing it up.
     
  7. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    Steinbrenner hired and fired Billy Martin 4 times. Billy was successful with the Twins, A's and Yankees. Some coaches are adaptable and some are not.

    I think Fritz Shurmur was one of the best ever at adapting a defense to the players you have and making it successful. There was a time with the Rams due to injuries he developed a defense with 2 linemen. He got the guys on the field with the best chance of success.

    I do not see anyone out there to hire as Serman's replacement.

    I like what Pittsburgh has done with Cowher through ups and downs. They realize that some things ARE beyond a coach's control.

    Who would want to work for Daniel Snyder? If there is one guy who doesn't understand that you have to shut down equipment for maintenence once in awhile it is he.

    Almost 25% of this years cap is dead money or spent on Brett Favre. This year's crop of new guys came from the draft. If there is a downturn this year blame Sherman the GM and not Sherman the coach.
     

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