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Gary 3.0

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by GleefulGary, Apr 1, 2020.

  1. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Hopefully this will be my last mock. Barring any major changes to the roster, which I can't imagine unless there's a trade, this is how I feel we best fill our needs.



    1. Jaylon Johnson - CB - Utah - 6'0 193:
    Yup. A CB in round 1. Why? This is a passing league, we have a need at the position, and in this draft the top of the class is good, but it's a huge drop after that. Johnson is very good, ready to play. Prefers to play press man, can play zone, smart, technically very good. If he played on the east coast he'd have a better rep. Perfect fit for Pettine.

    So, why is this a need? Our current roster has Jaire, King, Sullivan, Jackson, and Holman. I assume Tramon comes back, but he doesn't change your draft focus. King has played 30 games in 3 season, and is up for a contract following this season. We have to pay Bakh and Clark. I don't think it's realistic he's back. We, quite simply, need a CB. And a good one, not a project.

    2. Brandon Aiyuk - WR - Arizona State - 6'0 205:
    Aiyuk is dynamic after the catch. I think he averaged something like over 10 yards AFTER the catch. Has very long arms, and is exactly what this offense needs. I'm a bit skeptical of him being here at 62, but i think if we traded back from 30, and then used a pick or so from that trade, we could trade up from 62 to get him. A little convoluted, but it could work.

    3. Bryan Edwards - WR - South Carolina - 6'3 212:
    This guy is the goods, but has been hurt. Plays with size, speed, and physicality. First play in the game against Bama he took a sweep and just trucked some DB. It was awe inspiring. A trio of him, Aiyuk, and Adams would really be something else.

    4. Alex Taylor - OT - South Carolina State - 6'8 308 36 1/4" arms:
    Taylor is loooong, athletic, and raw. He's a better run blocker than pass blocker right now, and will need some time to develop, which is why he's going this late. He's a phenomenal option in round 4 that I would honestly be just fine taking in round 3. Oh, and he has huge hands, which I love in an OL. Credit to @Dantes for getting me on Taylor.

    5. Jonathan Garvin - Edge - Miami - 6'4 263:
    He fits into what Pettine seems to like for an edge. Garvin should be better than what he is, just needs some development and tough coaching. Worth a shot. I've watched him for his whole career, and I thought he could've been a round 1/2 talent. As a freshman he toasted Mike McGlinchey a couple times, so clearly the talent is there.

    6. Justin Strnad - ILB - Wake Forest - 6'3 238:
    Coverage backer who tested a little slower than expected. I truly don't know a lot about him, but he was available, and I suppose we do need a backer. Would've taken one sooner, but its pretty obvious GB doesn't value the position highly, and I'm not that high on the class past the top 5 or 6.

    6. DeeJay Dallas - RB - Miami - 5'10 217:
    I think he's a little undervalued due to a poor OL and offensive scheme. He's not a starter, but a reliable rotation back. Has return value as well.

    6. Joe Reed - WR - Virginia - 6'0 224:
    He's just an okay WR with good hands, but doesn't get great separation. Tested well athletically, but doesn't seem to play to it. Dynamic returner. Worth a shot because of his ST's value.

    7. Rob Windsor - iDL - Penn State 6'4 290:
    Meh. This really isn't a good iDL class at all. Plus there just aren't many players that fit GB's scheme. It's a need, but I'd rather pick up a run blocking FA.

    7. Nick Ralston - FB - Louisiana - 6'0 240:
    Can catch, and block. Seems like a LaFleur fit.




    Tried to make this as realistic as possible. Always hard, but I feel like I did a decent job. Of all the mocks I've done, I feel like this one gives GB this best immediate and future help.

    Lemme know what y'all think.
     
  2. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    I think I would be happy with the top 1/2 of the draft. Well, I would be fine with a CB in the first, just not that particular one. The 2nd half are a bunch of players I have other players in mind. But in reality, at those rounds there are dozens of players just as good.

    I think a CB is a definite need and the "we already drafted a bunch of DBs highly" is no reason not to. I doubt Jaylon Johnson is BPA at #30, but I do think he will have a career in the NFL. He has a very slight build and he will have a tough time covering physical WRs. I think he is more an option in the 2nd round. He will need to bulk up for a year or two before he really is effective.
     
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  3. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I am not one to discount a DB in the 1st at all, I think it's as likely as OT or WR depending on how they're graded and who's left.

    I would like to see an ILB a bit higher. I'm not sure they go back to back WR in 2nd and 3rd unless they're just unbelievable prospects. I definitely see 1 in the first 3 rounds, but with Funchess and Lazard coming on and St. Brown yet, I see 1 in 1-3 and then one later

    I don't know prospects at all, I get most of my "knowledge" of the draft from you guys :)
     
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  4. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Is 6'0 193 a very slight build? I don't see that at all with him, tbh. He's a pretty physical CB, and hasn't had issues with his size yet.

    Average CB size is 5'11 193 as far as I can find, and based off of memory, that's around where most of the top CB's are. Jaire Alexander is 5'10 195, and he hasn't had much issue.

    Anyways, we definitely differ on Johnson. I mean, again, very physical CB. Very good in press. Hasn't struggled with physical WR's to this point. I don't see where he needs to bulk up, but that's just me.
     
  5. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    He has a very wide range of opinions on him read the draft network. The 4 opinions contradict each other.

    He has had 3 shoulder surgeries, yet he has only missed 1 college game. His skills are intriguing, but I'm not going for him in the first. There are a bunch of CBs in his range: Arnette, Dantzler, Diggs, Terrel, Igby, Gladney, Fulton, . . . Some of those will be there mid to late 2nd.

    Then there is Robinson and Pride who I think will do better than most. A step behind that group and could be steals later.
     
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  6. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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  7. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    For those unfamiliar Strnad would probably be up in the Wilson from Wyoming and Phillips from LSU range of LBs had he not blew his bicep and missed some time. The dude has range and is a downhill attacker once he commits. Not fearful and his motor is high, which is a great thing. I don't see him going higher than the 5th and is a real solid post 4th round option to supplement Kirksey.
     
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  8. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I really like AJ Terrell, Gladney, and Fulton. Think I prefer Johnson to all, but I wouldn't count on Fulton being available at 30. We'll see.

    Dantzler has an awful athletic threshold. Only one CB that tested similar has done well in the NFL (Josh Norman), so I'm out on him. I don't like Diggs that much. Igby is fine, but he's raw...really raw. Could be good, but I'd rather take the prospect that I think has a much higher floor.

    As far as TDN, when it comes to CB's, Jonah Tuls does the best job. I remember he was one of the ones who was high on Jaire Alexander early, before almost everybody else. Crabbs does a pretty decent job. Marino sucks. Solak is fine. They lost their best overall one with Jon Ledyard.
     
  9. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I think you're spending too much time looking at a dudes lower body.

    ;)
     
  10. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Regarding going back to back with WR, I think Aiyuk is the style of WR that GB does not have, but needs. So I took him over Michael Pittman, who I really like. Edwards is a prospect that I think in a normal draft, if he was healthy for the combine, is an easy early 2nd rounder. He's very good, was held back by poor QB play and some injuries. So I think he falls a little bc of injuries. But man, if those two hit like I think they would, the WR group is elite.
     
  11. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    The issue is Aiyuk isn't there at that pick, but you did give yourself an out saying we traded some and made it happen. I concur I like Edwards but if Van Jefferson were there in the 3rd, I'm picking him over both Pittman, DPJ, Edwards, Hill, Hamler or whomever else has a small chance of being there still in the 3rd.
     
  12. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I like Jefferson, but I don't agree at all.

    He's 24 in July, he doesn't have much for deep speed, he's not a vertical player. He's a fantastic route runner, a real technician. Good hands. He's probably ready to contribute immediately.

    So here's my issue with him. Where does he get better? Technically, he's not far from maxed out. Again, he's not going to challenge players vertically. He's not a jump ball player. He's not a real physical player. Will he catch the ball under heavy pressure? That's something we don't really know. And he's 24 in July! He was playing against guys 2-5 years younger than him. That's a major factor.

    So I like him, but am I taking guys who can play on the outside in the NFL over an older, slot only WR with limited athleticism? Not a chance.
     
  13. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I'd disagree he cannot improve in aspects, I mean imagine if his moves get even better?!?! Scary.

    However, what you're outlining is why I wouldn't want to make Van my ONLY WR added. In the case you outlined though with Aiyuk already added, man give me a route running BEAST who has one of the highest floors (or at minimum the fewest unknowns) in the draft that i know will still contribute and long term is a guy routinely contributing albeit possibly as the 3rd WR on a roster, and 4th for his first few years.
     
  14. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I really think there's a limit to how good a route runner he can become. He's already very advanced. Given his lack of speed, it limits the confusion he can add to his routes against NFL guys. They're all going to sit on his routes. I can get a player similar to that in James Proche later. What's his ceiling? Adam Humphries? Pittman and Edwards are much, much, better.

    Now, I don't think he's a good pairing with Aiyuk. Aiyuk can play outside, but he fits best as a slot. Jefferson is a slot only. It's just not a good fit together.
     
  15. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Globally, my only disappointment in a haul like this would just be not adding a linebacker earlier. I don't think they need one in the top 2 rounds at all costs (though it should be in play at #62), but in the 6th round there's a real chance that the player doesn't even make the roster. So you'd really just be relying on what's in house and maybe what's added via roster cuts.

    Specifically, your taste in prospects is obviously immaculate.

    To the point about needing a corner, the current depth charter at cornerback and wide receiver is really not all that different.

    You have great players at the top in Alexander and Adams respectively.

    After that, you could say that cornerback is in a little bit better shape as King is more of an established starter than either Lazard or Funchess. However, he's still a pretty average starter, and he's not reliable in terms of availability, so I don't think there's a huge gap there.

    And after that it's just a lot of unproven guys: Sullivan, Jackson, Hollman on the one hand and Valdes-Scantling, St. Brown, and Kumerow on the other.

    And then you have to consider that there is a cluster of good, talented, man skilled corners with size that will be in play at #30 or via a trade down, but the pool dries up thereafter. I'm talking about Jaylon Johnson, A.J. Terrell, Kristian Fulton, Jeff Gladney, Trevon Diggs, and Damon Arnette. It's possible that one of them could make it to #62, but unlikely, in my opinion.

    After them, there are a lot of really good slot corner prospects, and some good zone corner prospects, and some interesting projects, but the good man prospects are fewer and farther between (Noah Igbinoghene and Troy Pride, and ?).

    Receive, on the other hand, is going to carry value to #62 pretty reliably.
     
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  16. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    "Too slight of build" is a weird critique for a 6' 193 lb corner who happens to be one of the most physically imposing press coverage players in the class. Linking to a perfectly normal photo of said corner is a pretty weird piece of evidence to support that weird take.
     
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  17. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Could we get pictures of CB's at a similar size that don't have a small build? Just for reference.

    Thanks!
     
  18. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Yes, where are those 195 corners wearing them apple bottom jeans?
     
  19. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    what's next? give that big booty a smack?
     
  20. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Well here is identically sized Arnette (even though ht/weight is irrelevant. Johnson is top heavy.)

    https://images.app.goo.gl/H7xUafac3L5RJ2Sj9

    I dont know if you are just trying to be funny or somehow feel the need to sound like a condescending prick lately but it is getting old.

    If you dont see the difference in builds between the two, than so be it. Arnette is the only one I pulled up and it clearly illustrates my point. I really dont give a sh1t if you or anyone disagree or not. I actually consider other thoughts and ideas and can change my mind.

    You used to be a good poster, but man you are closed minded lately.
     
  21. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Hyper-analyzing still photos of virtually identically sized corners is just a really bad take, Amish. That's my opinion, condescending or otherwise.

    You can keep the "good poster, bad poster" routine. You're as condescending as anyone when you feel strongly about something.
     
  22. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    You skipped a part.
     
  23. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Yes, Denzel Mims or Justin Jefferson would be better options than Van Jefferson, that's why you would be drafting Van Jefferson in the third. He doesn't have the ceiling but he has a MUCH higher floor than the upside guys you are talking about. Van Jefferson has already shown he has NFL worthy hands, route running, and the ability to fight press coverage; those are massively important skills. I'm not sure what you mean by "not a real physical player", no, he's not Michael Pittman (who I would LOVE for the Packers to draft) or Tee Higgins but he's by no means a "weak" player. Yes, he's older but that's actually probably helpful for a team that needs more immediate help since there's a very real chance that rookies won't get much practice before the season this year.

    Van Jefferson in the third would be a GREAT pick for the Packers. He's not the kind of WR that would be good for QBs like Cam Newton or Josh Allen (inaccurate, big arm) but he's basically the perfect kind of receiver for Rodgers. He gains separation running his routes and gets open for accurate passes.

    The primary downside might be that he's not the elite speed guy the Packers currently lack, but third round WRs don't usually check every box.
     
  24. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I never said he wouldn't be a good pick.

    I just prefer Bryan Edwards.
     
  25. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    It seems like everyone agrees that Van Jefferson is good and would fit well in Green Bay. It's just a matter of who you would/wouldn't take over him.

    For instance, I would take Edwards or Pittman over Jefferson pretty easily. But not everyone agrees with that.
     
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