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Fire Capers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by azrsx05, Sep 9, 2012.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Woodson was often the one slightly out of place, or taking the wrong angle. Sadly.

    Yes I'd like to trade Capers for whoever the Rams DC is because they slowed down Kaepernick and the 49ers offense TWICE this year, with less talent on defense.

    Our guys had no clue, look like they prepared for Dan Marino for the whole week.

    But I also saw a few plays where Capers dialed up a perfect blitz, and the idiots just whiffed on Kaepernick.
    One time was Casey Hayward who came in untouched from the left side, and he just missed him. It should have been a kill shot, or at least just get the damn large thin target. But nope, he whiffed and CK then ran for 20 yards.

    That play is not on Capers.

    But here's the thing in the first half: why were they even blitzing this guy? You don't want to flush the guy. He's a great great runner, not a great passer. He wants to run, and by blitzing 2 or 3 guys, he'll find the crease outta the pocket for huge yards.

    Stupid defense by Capers, but when was the last time you saw one of our DL get pressure on a QB?
    Raji? Pickett? CJ Wilson? Neal?
    None of them do.
     
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  2. net

    net Cheesehead

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    I've chastised people many times for the "fire everybody" thinking when the Packers lose.
    But clearly Thompson and McCarthy have to say, "we can't win the Super Bowl with this defense". This is the second season in a row this defense has let the Packers down in the playoffs.
    Before anyone says injury as an excuse, all teams have injuries, especially late in the year.
    Capers has put together a defense that has worked, at times. But the loss of Cullen Jenkins a couple of seasons ago started a downward trend. After he left they never had a pass rush that was comparable. Raji is good and Pickett can play, but gets worn down by larger o-lines. Because the opposite linebacker never performed to the same level, teams many times could take out Clay Matthews with double teams. Hawk has proven to be an adequate inside linebacker, but as was shown Saturday, can be overpowered by a larger man. The loss of Desmond Bishop hurt. Compare Hawk and the rest of the Packers linebackers to Patrick Willis. The secondary has an aging Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams has not played to his Super Bowl level, and some rookies, a couple show promise.
    But I think the overall speed at linebacker isn't there.
    But Colin K. and RGIII represent the new breed of NFL QB: (it's actually a throwback to the 1940's)...a QB that is at least a double threat: run or pass. The Packers defensive scheme has been proven to be wholly inadequate to handle the 49'ers. They lost to them twice this year. So until the Packers can face the reality that they will continue down this road with the same scheme and personnel, they will continue to lose to the 49'ers.
    As in college, you need a wide-split defensive end to begin to contain a wide-running offense. A wide-split DE means a 4-3 defense. The first time around with the 3-4 defense in the 70's and 80's the demise of that scheme was that teams could exploit the edges of the defense. Teams went back to the 4-3. So lets face reality: it's time for a change. Remember the adage that doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the mark of insanity. It will take the Packers a year or two to adjust. Given the fairly large turnover in personnel expected this year, next year could be down year. But it will be worth it to build a defense that doesn't routinely give up record-setting amounts of yardage. If the Packers didn't have an offense that is as good as it is, this team would be 4-12.
    Some old truths about football still hold true:
    1)If they can't score, they can't beat you.
    2)It all begins with the offensive line(look at the 49'ers offensive line.)
    3)Fundamental blocking and tackling wins.
    4)Running the ball successfully.
    The 49'ers are ahead of the Packers and probably the rest of the NFC. The first step to remedy that is to find a new defensive coordinator with another approach and build the league's best defense. With a potential Hall of Fame QB at offense, good things will return.
     
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  3. Vltrophy

    Vltrophy Cheesehead

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    Everyone has a bad game & I've sided w/Capers BUT in 2 games against MN & the 49ers in post season our D gave up close to 1000 yards. That's an avg of over 300 yrds per game
     
  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    OUR THIRD DOWN DEFENSE IS PAINFULLY HORRIBLE.
    We kept doing a nice job on 1st & 2nd downs last night, first half, but they'd pick up 3rd & 8's, 3rd & 11's, 3rd & 3s, etc. time after time, and this isn't the only game.

    Ponder did that to us in week 17 as well.

    Clay Matthews can't do everything, but it seems he has to.

    I feel the game has passed Capers by, although I am still mad at Hayward as he had a perfect blitz package, unblocked, free shot into Kaepernick where he could have CRUSHED HIM, but he not only didn't put a lick on him, he totally missed him and let him run past him for 20 yards.
    UNACCEPTABLE.
     
  5. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    You sure about that?
     
  6. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    So is Hayward our goat this week?
     
  7. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Who?
     
  8. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Fair point
     
  9. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    We'd basically be looking to trade CM3 for either a couple high draft picks or a pass-rushing 4-3 end. He's an ideal 3-4 guy, but in a 4-3 he's kind of a square peg no matter where you put him. Remember when Kampman changed over?
     
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  10. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Harris averaged 4.8/carry. What more would you expect from Grant?
     
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  11. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I give up !!! :rolleyes:
     
  12. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    The Steelers, Patriots, and Ravens have seemed to do just fine with the 3/4 for years. To scrap it now would take years to retool. Don't forget folks, we've been to the playoffs 3 years in a row, and have a deep, talented team. We got it handed to us last night by a team that may get it handed to them in the next round. We led the league (again) in Passer Rating Differential--a key indicator of success in the NFL. So we're doing a lot right. We need another outside linebacker to complement Matthews, and a couple of tall, SPEEDY inside backers. It's imperative we develop an offensive line and a defensive front that control the line of scrimmage, and ensure we've got the coaches to get the most out of the players. It's my own personal opinion Campen is not one of them. But it would be a huge mistake to abandon the core principles that have gotten us to this point, imo. There's a lot right about this team, and with our youth, the future is bright.
     
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  13. LZ13

    LZ13 Cheesehead

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    Kaepernick was incredible, but also incredible were the play-action run fakes that left me and even Clay Matthews wondering where the heck the ball was. Tough game. I believe we played well and would have beaten any other NFC team last night. But not 49ers - they were better.
     
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  14. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    THIS...
     
  15. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

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    I still wouldn't worry about our offensive line. Rodgers got sacked once and Harris averaged 4.8 per carry. They did their job today.

    So I'm going to say something that I don't think we said yet--turnovers. What's the stat about winning the turnover battle and winning playoff games? We had two, 49ers had one. Give us back the muffed punt and the game is different. Not saying a 14 point swing or anything so foolish, but worst case, we trade punts.

    Similarly, the long pick thrown by Rodgers. It was a good decision to throw, Jordy was open, but the placement was bad. Or it just got away from him. If we could have just tackled right away, it would have been no worse than a good punt on the next down, but no, he returned it back to midfield.

    Change those two plays and maybe it turns out different.
     
  16. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Capers history as a DC is that he has initial success followed by things turning to crap. We're officially in the crap stage. :(
     
  17. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    You're right, mradke66; but the fact remains our defensive front 7 was outmanned by the 9ers o-line; a time of possession difference of 16 minutes is amazing. And our offensive line was overmatched. How many times was Rogers flushed from the pocket? How many times was he hit? Not much different from the entire season--or for the last several years. I guess if you had to make a choice it was the failure of our front 7 more than the offense, in this game. But we have to get better in both areas, imo.
     
  18. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think to be fair pitiful is a repeatedly losing season. We were beaten by a better team who many of us wrote of before it started. I agree things need to change in the off season but I think pitiful is a bit strong IMHO. We are still the best team in the NFC, and with a few tweeks could be serious contenders again.
     
  19. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    And the 49ers had two one armed players out there. Smith on the DL and Staley on the OL.
     
  20. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I expect this argument to be intensely revisited over the course of the offseason in light of last night's loss. First let me say I am a huge fan of Capers as a defensive coordinator. I'm also not a big fan of 2nd guessing the coach but I will say this about last night's game. If I were to offer one criticism of Capers, it would be to question why he played man to man coverage against a running QB once it became obvious the QB could run. I would of liked to see him switch to zone much quicker. I think that cost us but that is not what cost us the game. It was merely a part of the overall.

    I don't think Capers should be fired. I think he works well with this defense. Look at what we did defensively this year. Look how far we have come since last year. Capers is a great coach. I think firing him would be a mistake. Also if you are even going to consider entering into a discussion on firing Capers you had best be prepared to offer up a possible replacement.
     
  21. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    I still like the 3-4.

    Greg Roman simply out coached Dom Capers twice this year. They have a history with each other and as of late Greg has controlled the match up.

    Since joining the Packers Capers has had 1 great year, 1 average year. (This one), 1 below average year and 1 bad year. Not a great track record. While we did hold up well with all the young guys on our Defense, and it improved much more than I thought it would some problems still persisted. (Next paragraph)

    Last year our defense had 2 main issues. Missed tackles and blown assignments. This year for the most part our tackling woes had been fixed (Except whenever we played AP) and most of the blown assignments had been corrected. This year I was concerned about a lot of the blown assignments continuing because a lot of these young guys would still be learning Capers playbook. This turned out to be mostly unfounded. These guys caught on quick, just like they all did when Capers first arrived in Green Bay.

    I'm still not sure how to classify last night's defensive performance and where the blame belongs. Not a huge number of missed tackles, but enough. Not a huge number of blown assignments, but enough. Capers didn't want to switch the gameplan, but just execute the one he already had in place, which I'm lukewarm about. But THESE things did stand out to me:

    • Tramon Williams looked utterly awful.

    • The sure-fire way to beat Aaron Rodgers is to keep him off the field.

    • Erik Walden is not the answer at LOLB.

    • Our inside linebackers can not play pass coverage. I don't want to see A.J Hawk be that deep on the field ever again.
    • For whatever reason our defense likes to collapse in playoff games under Capers. Par 2011.
    • Greg Jennings is the best WR on this football team when healthy. (He will likely be gone)
     
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  22. azrsx05

    azrsx05 Cheesehead

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    I don't get why people keep asking who to replace him with. Can his sorry ***. I'm sure we can't get any worse at defense. 3rd and longs are almost gimmes, it's embarrassing. I'm sure Lovie or any qualified DC could work with a 3-4 as they transition to a 4-3 defensive and not dropping all and going straight into rebuild and letting everyone go at once. This defense needs a fire light up under their ***. Besides CM3 and Woodsoon I don't see anyone play with any heart in that defense. I do have a problem with Capers sitting up in the booth. There's no direct communication with the players. He has to wait for them to get off the field to call them.
     
  23. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Good call on Walden, but that is why Ted Thompson invested his 1st round pick in OLB Nick Perry. I believe he was prepared to select Bruce Irvin had Seattle not "reached" for Irvin earlier, surprising everyone. I like Perry.

    Our ILB play sucks, but remember we were missing the best one Bishop, and his adequate backup DJ Smith. Still, you need better backups than Brad Jones because he's not instinctive at all, is really an edge pass rusher, who failed there too.
    And Hawk? Well, I've tried to support him for a long time, because he's at least durable unlike the rest of the defense. And that is worth a lot.
    But not enough for a guy picked #5 overall with Vernon Davis and Haloti Ngata available at that pick. Dang.

    Capers, I agree, needs to be held accountable. Too many huge failures from him. He's wasted 3 MVP-like years off of the Rodgers dynasty possibility.
    Is Capers too old?
    No intensity from the cerebral book worm.
    I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I'd rather have the bravado and intensity of Rob Ryan than Capers, and keep the 3-4.

    Jennings is very good WR and is our best at the moment.

    BJ Raji... any DL, did any of them even SMELL Kaepernick last night? Why can't we ever get sacks from the DL like the Texans and Niners do?
     
  24. Alex

    Alex Cheesehead

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    I agree. He said why not put Grant in and I don't think Grant would have done anything.
     
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  25. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    Were Bishop and Smith playing that well before their injuries?

    You might be on to something with this Capers too old theory. He doesn't seem ready or prepared for this "new age" of running, dual threat, option style quarterbacking.

    I would prefer not to have anyone with the last name of Ryan on our team.

    And here's what I posted on another thread I'll copy over:

    Oh, and finally when it comes to pressure up the middle. I saw Raji just standing there in the middle of the play on more than one occasion last night. Kaepernick is dropped back and Raji just stands not even attempting to rush after his initial move was blocked. I know it's tough for these big guys who play a lot of snaps. But when does it come to a point where we have to say "fu*k it" This guy is just lazy....?
     

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