Eliot Wolf / John Dorsey GM threads?/ Browns - Steelers fight

[Sky King]

After the dust has settled, I actually like Max Kellerman's take on what happened, but agree with Stephan A on a 6 game suspension for Garrett.

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Nothing happened during that entire incident that hasn't occurred before, except for one thing. Garrett's action is the only outlier and the only action that now requires the establishment of a new punishment baseline.

My neighbor played several seasons as a DE in the NFL. I asked him if he had ever witnessed a similar incident in all of his seasons of playing, from HS, college, and through the NFL, or had he ever heard of such an incident. He stated that he was unaware of any others quite like it. He also stated that obscenities shouted amongst players, goading, shoving, punching, slapping, biting, spitting, kicking, etc. occur with some regularity. Garrett’s reaction is singular as far as he knows.

He also told me a lot of what can happen when a player is at the bottom of a pile, particularly when recovering a fumble, and that it can get downright nasty. But despite that he’s never seen anybody else attempt to clock somebody’s unprotected head by swinging a helmet. That’s a new one.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Have you ever read about the early days of football? I mean back in the college club days, a generation or two before the NFL. Congress made a threat to ban football like sports due to the violence ON the field.
Personally I don't think a helmet held by three fingers in the face mask has enough heft and stability to crack a skull except for a "we'll never be able to duplicate that" freak accident. Especially on a professional athlete whose body and bone structure has been tuned to play the sport for 15 years during his development phase. The helmet pivots around the fingers, reducing the force. The mass is not concentrated. A plastic shell deflects more than a wooden device such as a bat or club. All this crush a skull nonsense is hyperbole. Draw blood, concussion, break a nose? yes.

And from what field of expertise did you draw this nugget of nonsense? There is no logical reason to conclude that the skull of an NFL qb is any stronger than any other man of similar stature. Regardless, if it got the temple, that area is far thinner than the top of the skull. And the force required to cause a brain hemorrhage is WAY less than that anyway. It boggles the mind that you think this is no big deal.

 

[OldSchool101]

I can't wait for someone on espn or pft to make it a race issue. It's coming.

You sorta called it.. it’s official.. Garrett is claiming racism.

Garrett will claim self defense.

Worse. He’s now claiming his violent manner was brought on by a racist slur, not self defense.

https://clutchpoints.com/browns-news-myles-garrett-claims-mason-rudolph-called-him-a-racial-slur/

 

[Dantés]

You sorta called it.. it’s official.. Garrett is claiming racism.



Worse. He’s now claiming his violent manner was brought on by a racist slur, not self defense.

https://clutchpoints.com/browns-news-myles-garrett-claims-mason-rudolph-called-him-a-racial-slur/

And who can say, but the two of them? It's going to be "he said; he said" unless Rudolph did actually call him something and is inclined to admit it.

 

[Mondio]

it's about the only defense he could present to possibly get a suspension reduced. Good lawyering. See if it works. Myself, I don't care. Could have said stuff about his momma too. Kids learn how to react better than that. I hope he made fun of his roid shriveled ********* too. Then he can claim some gender discrimination too. Roll it all into one big lawsuit.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And who can say, but the two of them? It's going to be "he said; he said" unless Rudolph did actually call him something and is inclined to admit it.

So much for "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me".

I don't really care what either player said, I care more about their actions. Rudolph was by no means an innocent bystander in this. I'm not condoning Garret's actions whatsoever, but this was a situation where it took 2 to start and keep the fight going and both were guilty of that.

 

[Dantés]

So much for "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me".

I don't really care what either player said, I care more about their actions. Rudolph was by no means an innocent bystander in this. I'm not condoning Garret's actions whatsoever, but this was a situation where it took 2 to start and keep the fight going and both were guilty of that.

If Rudolph called him a racial epithet, like the N word or something of that order, then the reaction makes more sense to me than it would otherwise. It still doesn't justify anything. However, we have no idea if that even happened and no way of finding out other than Rudolph admitting it or another player testifying that they heard it.

But I would argue that it took one to *start* the fight... Garrett and his dirty late tackle in a game that was over. It did, however, take two to escalate the fight.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Rudolph called him a racial epithet, like the N word or something of that order, then the reaction makes more sense to me than it would otherwise. It still doesn't justify anything. However, we have no idea if that even happened and no way of finding out other than Rudolph admitting it or another player testifying that they heard it.

But I would argue that it took one to *start* the fight... Garrett and his dirty late tackle in a game that was over. It did, however, take two to escalate the fight.

I guess we differ on a few things. I really don't see Garrett's tackle as a late one, nor did the ref watching it, no flag was thrown for it. Rudolph and the Steelers seemed to think that the game wasn't over, they were passing the ball, instead of taking a knee. Again, not making excuses for either player, just calling it as I see it. Even if Garrett's tackle was something Rudolph took offense too, I have never seen a QB try to rip a players helmet off. I think that was done in frustration over the night that Rudolph had, Garrett's tackle was the nudge that popped his cork. All the players involved had a part in what happened. I didn't see any innocent bystanders.

Finally, I don't care what Rudolph said or didn't say to Garrett, Garrett never mentioned any of that prior to his appeal and now it sounds like its just an excuse to try and justify what he did.

I still think Rudolph deserves a fine and a 1 game suspension. I also would like to see Garrett's suspension bleed over to at least 1 game next season, just as a refresher and reminder to start the season as to what happens to players that do what he did.

 

[Dantés]

I guess we differ on a few things. I really don't see Garrett's tackle as a late one, nor did the ref watching it, no flag was thrown for it. Rudolph and the Steelers seemed to think that the game wasn't over, they were passing the ball, instead of taking a knee. Again, not making excuses for either player, just calling it as I see it. Even if Garrett's tackle was something Rudolph took offense too, I have never seen a QB try to rip a players helmet off. I think that was done in frustration over the night that Rudolph had, Garrett's tackle was the nudge that popped his cork. All the players involved had a part in what happened. I didn't see any innocent bystanders.

Finally, I don't care what Rudolph said or didn't say to Garrett, Garrett never mentioned any of that prior to his appeal and now it sounds like its just an excuse to try and justify what he did.

I still think Rudolph deserves a fine and a 1 game suspension. I also would like to see Garrett's suspension bleed over to at least 1 game next season, just as a refresher and reminder to start the season as to what happens to players that do what he did.

The refs miss stuff all the time. For instance, they missed one of the head hunting play that knocked a Steeler receiver out earlier in the game. Easy call, but no flag.

Garrett made contact with Rudolph as the ball came out. That was fine. But with the ball out, he kept him wrapped, twisted him, and dragged him down all after the fact. It wasn't like momentum carried him into a tackle or caused him to land on Rudolph. He clearly, to my mind, exerted additional effort with the ball out to get Rudolph on the ground. It was absolutely dirty in my book, especially considering that the game was over. It was one step away from hitting a QB on a victory formation snap. I can't make anyone agree with me, but a lot of people who cover the sport have agreed with that take.

 

[Mondio]

I'd have to see it again to call it late or not, with the initial contact, but there was little doubt Garrett was taking some liberties to give him just a little extra on the way down. he should have been happy he didn't get a flag, was able to take his extra pound from the QB and walk away with the win.

 

[Dantés]

The league has said they've found no evidence of a racial slur. No one was mic'd though.

No one is in a position to say for certain what happened in that regard. But if he's making this up, we can add "lying coward" to "dirtbag psychopath."

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well if you believe this article, the NFL handed down the largest direct fine to.....Mason Rudolph. Obviously, Myles Garrett takes the biggest total financial hit with his suspension.

https://fox4kc.com/2019/11/23/steel...-disciplines-33-players-in-brawl-source-says/

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not a big shocker really. John Dorsey is out in Cleveland!

Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
1m

Update: John Dorsey is officially OUT as #Browns

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GM. They couldn't come to an agreement on the restructured front office.

 

[swhitset]

Been watching this on ESPN... I’m sure that they are few people in here that feel vindicated... Dorsey definitely built a roster full of me first type guys...

 

[Sky King]

Not a big shocker really. John Dorsey is out in Cleveland!

Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
1m

Update: John Dorsey is officially OUT as #Browns

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GM. They couldn't come to an agreement on the restructured front office.

I'm surprised the best fans in football would let him go.

 

[Dantés]

Dorsey deserved to go even more than Kitchens. He packed his locker room full of divas, thugs, and idiots. That whole situation was doomed. All the media could see was the talent.

I have to laugh now thinking back to how many people cried hysteria when Wolf and Highsmith joined Dorsey over there, as though GB was losing all the best talent. Not quite.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Clevelands "biggest fan" Quantrell less than a year ago: "Dorsey is a God, Kitchens is great, Baker Mayfield is a FHOF, this team is set to win Superbowls for years to come"

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Quantrell the other day:

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[Curly Calhoun]

Not a big shocker really. John Dorsey is out in Cleveland!

Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
1m

Update: John Dorsey is officially OUT as #Browns

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GM. They couldn't come to an agreement on the restructured front office.

I wonder what that means for Eliot Wolf....I believe he followed Dorsey to Cleveland.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Maybe Gute has room for Wolf as a scout/advisor/etc? Say what you want about the FA acquisitions but the Browns have still drafted exceptionally well.

 

[Dantés]

Maybe Gute has room for Wolf as a scout/advisor/etc? Say what you want about the FA acquisitions but the Browns have still drafted exceptionally well.

I highly doubt that Wolf would come back. He seemed to leave out of frustration. The sense seemed to be that he felt he was passed over for the GM gig in Green Bay.

It's quite hard to make any judgement about him or the Browns' staff regarding the draft. Wolf joined the Browns in January of 2018, when the scouting process is already basically complete. So he's essentially been there for 1.25 draft cycles (that we actually have data on).

I would challenge the notion they drafted exceptionally well. Mayfield and Ward are really good players... Cleveland also had the #1 and #4 picks so they could take two blue chip prospects. That's largely because of the draft capital accrual of Sashi Brown who preceded Dorsey & Co.

Outside of those two picks, in the top 5, the results have been mixed at best. However, it's very early to try and judge the 2018 and 2019 classes.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I agree he did leave out of frustration, but Wolf's notoriety was built here. Granted Dorsey was fired and not Wolf, his job security just went to mush. If he does lose his job too, I could see him reaching out if he doesn't garner any interest elsewhere across the league.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Have to admit. Kinda surprised about the Dorsey firing. He wasn't there for very long. I agree that there are too many divas, but I thought I better coach might have been better able to handle it. I wonder if Wolf will be seeking the GM position.

Not surprised by Kitchens firing. Never thought he could handle that responsibility. Being an interim HC is one thing but long term...very different.

 

[XPack]

I agree he did leave out of frustration, but Wolf's notoriety was built here. Granted Dorsey was fired and not Wolf, his job security just went to mush. If he does lose his job too, I could see him reaching out if he doesn't garner any interest elsewhere across the league.

Don't you guys see Wolf taking over as GM?

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

It's a possibility, but if he doesn't, I could see Gute throwing him a bone. I'm sure Wolf himself is hoping for a promotion, but if not what happens then? He bolts for the nearest gig that's not in Green Bay or Cleveland? What if there's none to be had? That's when Gute picks up the phone.

 

[Dantés]

Don't you guys see Wolf taking over as GM?

Very possible. But Dorsey is reportedly leaving because he wouldn't agree to a restructuring of the front office. And Highsmith has interviewed for other positions. So maybe Wolf wants out too?