Courtland Sutton

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There are other positions that need reinforcement more.

I agree but the Packers should definitely improve the depth at wide receiver this offseason and in the longer term develop a starting caliber player capable of replacing Nelson.
 

Dantés

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It's really weird to me that Edmunds, who is fast on tape, is considered slow because NFLDS projects him to run a 4.8, but Sutton, who is slow on tape, is considered fast because... wait... NFLDS projects him to run a 4.58. Now I'm just confused. Why is this guy supposed to run a 4.4? Why is he being comped to Julio Jones?
 
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What happens in FA will obviously determine much of this. I'm really hoping we go out and get a few vacancies filled with veterans. We have a ton of needs but the one's most needing a Veteran presence is CB and TE, then the direct position of dire need is OLB/Edge. I'm praying we can get at least 2 of these 3 locked down with some substantial talent before the draft. That would enable us to go after a Wideout at least early second day (I'm not opposed to trading our 2nd rounder and a couple late round picks to move early into the second round if a top tier WR slips)
 
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ThePerfectBeard

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Trade back? The guy is a top ten talent. 6'4 225 with 4.4 speed. He is an elite talent for that matter. I can only imagine what Rodgers could do with a talent like Sutton. Might be game over for opposing defenses.

https://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings

https://www.drafttek.com/m/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2018.asp

Come on man, I'm all for people having "their" guys and being excited about players, but he's not a 4.4 guy. He's a Kelvin Benjamin/Devin Funchess type player. Espn has him at a 4.7 40 yard. That's slow, and we don't need slower receivers. We need speed if anything. Let's wait for the combine before we start throwing numbers out there.

Here's the link: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/177073/courtland-sutton
 
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brandon2348

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Come on man, I'm all for people having "their" guys and being excited about players, but he's not a 4.4 guy. He's a Kelvin Benjamin/Devin Funchess type player. Espn has him at a 4.7 40 yard. That's slow, and we don't need slower receivers. We need speed if anything. Let's wait for the combine before we start throwing numbers out there.

Here's the link: http://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/177073/courtland-sutton

Walter Football has him at 4.51. Here is that link: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018WR.php

We're just gonna have to wait and see. I'd be shocked if he ran 4.75 and that would obviously temper expectations.
 

ThePerfectBeard

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Walter Football has him at 4.51. Here is that link: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018WR.php

We're just gonna have to wait and see. I'd be shocked if he ran 4.75 and that would obviously temper expectations.

I'm betting it's going to be somewhere in between those two numbers. If he runs anything close to a 4.5, I'll be right there with you on the bandwagon, but currently I can't help seeing a Kelvin Benjamin type player and he does have some problems with separation. This draft has tons of mid-round talent with similar Kelvin Benjamin/Funchess type wide receivers that wouldn't require the risk of a #14 pick. There's Jaleel Scott, Ateman, and Lazard. There's also some tall, quick guys like Wims, Chark, and St. Brown who could climb with a good combine.

Right now, I'd rather see us draft a smaller wide receiver with elite quickness and then grab a play making tight end like Goedert.
 
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brandon2348

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I'm betting it's going to be somewhere in between those two numbers. If he runs anything close to a 4.5, I'll be right there with you on the bandwagon, but currently I can't help seeing a Kelvin Benjamin type player and he does have some problems with separation. This draft has tons of mid-round talent with similar Kelvin Benjamin/Funchess type wide receivers that wouldn't require the risk of a #14 pick. There's Jaleel Scott, Ateman, and Lazard. There's also some tall, quick guys like Wims, Chark, and St. Brown who could climb with a good combine.

Right now, I'd rather see us draft a smaller wide receiver with elite quickness and then grab a play making tight end like Goedert.

I think he is more quick twitch then Benjamin and Funchess but we'll see at combine. I don't want a Funchess/Benjamin type receiver either and will conversely be off the bandwagon myself if he tests that poorly. However I expect him to tear the combine up. I could be wrong.

Smaller receiver I like is Gallup. At 6'1 200 He is the smallest I would go considering Lambeau field is frozen half the time and playoffs.

I like Andrews, Fumagalli at TE. Goedert good prospect too. I'd be happy with any of the 3. I think Fumagalli will run faster then expected at Combine.
 

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Walter Football has him at 4.51. Here is that link: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018WR.php

We're just gonna have to wait and see. I'd be shocked if he ran 4.75 and that would obviously temper expectations.

I'd be shocked if he runs under 4.55 and either way even if he does his game speed doesn't translate he's not what the Packers are lacking at reviever he's what they already have in nelson, Allison, and Clark.
 

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I think he is more quick twitch then Benjamin and Funchess but we'll see at combine. I don't want a Funchess/Benjamin type receiver either and will conversely be off the bandwagon myself if he tests that poorly. However I expect him to tear the combine up. I could be wrong.

Smaller receiver I like is Gallup. At 6'1 200 He is the smallest I would go considering Lambeau field is frozen half the time and playoffs.

I like Andrews, Fumagalli at TE. Goedert good prospect too. I'd be happy with any of the 3. I think Fumagalli will run faster then expected at Combine.

I haven't watched a lot of tape on Gallup, but he sure impressed me at the Senior Bowl. He just climbed the ladder in the middle of the field on one of the plays and it blew my mind. I like Hamilton and Miller a lot so far. Still getting around to watching the big guys.
 

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Walter Football has him at 4.51. Here is that link: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018WR.php

We're just gonna have to wait and see. I'd be shocked if he ran 4.75 and that would obviously temper expectations.

For clarification, that is what he ran coming out of HS. It's at a Nike event, it's laser timed, and it's quite accurate. I'm sure he's gotten faster as he's gotten stronger and older, but I'd certainly trust that more than Walterfootball. They're pulling that 4.5 out of thin air.

Regardless, you can see on tape that he doesn't separate well. He might have long strider speed, but he doesn't play fast.

Also very interesting to see that Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb, and Antonio Brown are all too small to thrive in the frigid weather of Green Bay.
 

thequick12

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I'm betting it's going to be somewhere in between those two numbers. If he runs anything close to a 4.5, I'll be right there with you on the bandwagon, but currently I can't help seeing a Kelvin Benjamin type player and he does have some problems with separation. This draft has tons of mid-round talent with similar Kelvin Benjamin/Funchess type wide receivers that wouldn't require the risk of a #14 pick. There's Jaleel Scott, Ateman, and Lazard. There's also some tall, quick guys like Wims, Chark, and St. Brown who could climb with a good combine.

Right now, I'd rather see us draft a smaller wide receiver with elite quickness and then grab a play making tight end like Goedert.

It'd be great to get wr Christian Kirk in the 2nd round but even if you had to take him in the first I think it's gonna be well worth it. He's a 4.3 guy good route runner
 
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brandon2348

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I'd be shocked if he runs under 4.55 and either way even if he does his game speed doesn't translate he's not what the Packers are lacking at reviever he's what they already have in nelson, Allison, and Clark.

Talk to me after combine.
 
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brandon2348

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For clarification, that is what he ran coming out of HS. It's at a Nike event, it's laser timed, and it's quite accurate. I'm sure he's gotten faster as he's gotten stronger and older, but I'd certainly trust that more than Walterfootball. They're pulling that 4.5 out of thin air.

Regardless, you can see on tape that he doesn't separate well. He might have long strider speed, but he doesn't play fast.

Also very interesting to see that Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb, and Antonio Brown are all too small to thrive in the frigid weather of Green Bay.

Now we're using high school 40 times? Good Greif.

What was his 8th grade vert?
 
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brandon2348

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Also very interesting to see that Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb, and Antonio Brown are all too small to thrive in the frigid weather of Green Bay.

Brown is a one in a million type player. Jennings was prototype at 200lbs which should be the target. Cobb is a little light but tough as nails.

I don't see Ridley in any of these guys.
 

GleefulGary

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Now we're using high school 40 times? Good Greif.

What was his 8th grade vert?

Yeah. It's a laser timed 40 from 3-4 years ago. Crazy that somebody would want to use that.

So obviously a players 40 time should improve from there being in a college strength system, getting stronger, getting older, etc. By and large, it will improve by a tenth, rare occasions two tenths. Very rarely more than that. Look it up, it's a great resource.

Taking those numbers, seeing that Sutton is 3-4 years older than he was, and has gained ~30 pounds, I would be SHOCKED if he increased his speed by 3 tenths of a second and ran a 4.4. So that, and the tape where we can see he struggles to gain separation on college CB's, makes it pretty clear that Sutton isn't a burner. He's a big bodied possession WR.
 

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Brown is a one in a million type player. Jennings was prototype at 200lbs which should be the target. Cobb is a little light but tough as nails.

I don't see Ridley in any of these guys.

Ridley went 84-1050-7 as a true freshman at the premier football university in the nation. If he doesn't fit your mold, your mold is wrong.
 
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brandon2348

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Yeah. It's a laser timed 40 from 3-4 years ago. Crazy that somebody would want to use that.

So obviously a players 40 time should improve from there being in a college strength system, getting stronger, getting older, etc. By and large, it will improve by a tenth, rare occasions two tenths. Very rarely more than that. Look it up, it's a great resource.

Taking those numbers, seeing that Sutton is 3-4 years older than he was, and has gained ~30 pounds, I would be SHOCKED if he increased his speed by 3 tenths of a second and ran a 4.4. So that, and the tape where we can see he struggles to gain separation on college CB's, makes it pretty clear that Sutton isn't a burner. He's a big bodied possession WR.

That timing is skewed. Timing a 17 year old 6'4 kid who hasn't even grown into his body yet makes it null and void as far as I'm concerned. Sutton is explosive too and I expect him to jump out of gym at combine as well. My prediction is he will run 4.45-4.55 at combine which makes him a top 10 talent. Not sure why anyone wouldn't want a top 10 talent that happens to play WR when you have Aaron Rodgers at QB but go figure.
 

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Of course we want a top 10 talent.

I just don't think Sutton is it.

His testing, to this point, hasn't shown he's fast. If you want to ignore HS testing even though it has proven to be reliable, go for it. There will of course always be exceptions, but it is accurate.

His tape, to this point, hasn't shown that he can separate well against defenders.

I don't see how that adds up to a top 10 talent, and even you're starting to hedge going from "he's a 4.4 guy" to "4.45-4.55" meaning you think he has a 66% chance of running a 4.5+.

Myself, if we're gonna take a WR, I'm gonna take the guy who has proven it on the field at a high level.
 
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brandon2348

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Of course we want a top 10 talent.

I just don't think Sutton is it.

His testing, to this point, hasn't shown he's fast. If you want to ignore HS testing even though it has proven to be reliable, go for it. There will of course always be exceptions, but it is accurate.

His tape, to this point, hasn't shown that he can separate well against defenders.

I don't see how that adds up to a top 10 talent, and even you're starting to hedge going from "he's a 4.4 guy" to "4.45-4.55" meaning you think he has a 66% chance of running a 4.5+.

Myself, if we're gonna take a WR, I'm gonna take the guy who has proven it on the field at a high level.

He shows enough on tape along with projected measurables to be a 1st round pick. Somewhere along the way you have lost sight of that trying to reinforce high school testing etc etc. Were actually gonna need him to run 4.5 plus to even have a shot at him. He needs to be coached up a little but IMO this guy is an immediate upgrade over a 33 year old Nelson just on pure talent to make plays. He is a "Playmaker" and has a very high ceiling. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps 38 inches.
 
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brandon2348

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Of course we want a top 10 talent.

I just don't think Sutton is it.

His testing, to this point, hasn't shown he's fast. If you want to ignore HS testing even though it has proven to be reliable, go for it. There will of course always be exceptions, but it is accurate.

His tape, to this point, hasn't shown that he can separate well against defenders.

I don't see how that adds up to a top 10 talent, and even you're starting to hedge going from "he's a 4.4 guy" to "4.45-4.55" meaning you think he has a 66% chance of running a 4.5+.

Myself, if we're gonna take a WR, I'm gonna take the guy who has proven it on the field at a high level.


My updated 3 round mock

1st Courtland Sutton WR SMU

2nd Mark Andrews TE Oklahoma

3rd Michael Gallup WR Colorado State

3rd Frank Ragnow C/G Arkansas

Time for offense!
 
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Now we're using high school 40 times? Good Greif.

What was his 8th grade vert?
lol. The comment above reminded me of my HS days. We had an indoor track meet when I was a Junior in HS (first year in Track) we had a rain event, and because our gym was relatively small, we had about 5 heats at 40 yards. I was normally a long distance runner (Cross Country) and ran the 800/880 on my Track team, but for some reason I was put in that 40 event that meet. I ran a 4.55 and was beat by 2 runners (4.53 and a 4.39). Granted we had stop watch timing in those days but I was pretty proud that only 2 runners from from several area schools beat me at an event I had never officially ran before (and one was basically a wash). I did have a bit of an edge, at the time I weighed #145lbs and had essentially zero body fat.
What amazed me is the kid who ran the 4.39 was 6'2-6'3" and 210-220lbs range (he was also a 19yr old Senior and that had my Coach pissed off) I lost track of him a short while later, but I always wondered if he went on to compete in professional sports in any capacity.
I do not remember my 8th grade splits though? :whistling:
 
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brandon2348

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This is a terrible idea IMO.

Why not? Release Nelson and Bulaga. Extend Cobb and your at almost 35 mill in spendable cap space. Go out and get Demario Davis who could be a real leader on this D and put him next to Martinez. Then get a couple of corners. Could probably get both Kyle Fuller and Mo Claiborne. Bring in Dee Ford from the Chiefs and play ball.

Plus we still have 7 more later round draft picks to take on fliers.
 

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He shows enough on tape along with projected measurables to be a 1st round pick. Somewhere along the way you have lost sight of that trying to reinforce high school testing etc etc. Were actually gonna need him to run 4.5 plus to even have a shot at him. He needs to be coached up a little but IMO this guy is an immediate upgrade over a 33 year old Nelson just on pure talent to make plays. He is a "Playmaker" and has a very high ceiling. I wouldn't be surprised if he jumps 38 inches.

You kill me.

I never said he wasn't a 1st round pick. I'm saying he's not a top 10 pick. I don't think he's a top 15 pick...at the end of the 1st, sure, depending on the team. But not top 10 like you're saying.
 

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Why not? Release Nelson and Bulaga. Extend Cobb and your at almost 35 mill in spendable cap space. Go out and get Demario Davis who could be a real leader on this D and put him next to Martinez. Then get a couple of corners. Could probably get both Kyle Fuller and Mo Claiborne. Bring in Dee Ford from the Chiefs and play ball.

Plus we still have 7 more later round draft picks to take on fliers.

Dee Ford is not a free agent...
 

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