Corey Linsley is a Stud

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They're not going to know much more than they already know with camp-lite and no preseason.

They will have more information available as well as don't risk that they don't have a starting center on the roster if Patrick is injured in camp.

I was not aware of those rule changes. Thanks for the info. I suspect Linsley stays until at least close to trading deadline as Patrick is probably a better guard backup option than any of the 3 drafted rookies at this time if Turner has to move out to tackle and Lane Taylor gets plugged in behind.

The Packers would save significantly less cap space by trading Linsley at the deadline though. In addition they wouldn't save any at that point by releasing him.
 
H

HardRightEdge

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They will have more information available as well as don't risk that they don't have a starting center on the roster if Patrick is injured in camp.
I don't think you can look at it that way. A player is more likely to be injured in week 1 than in this truncated camp at which point you would not have a backup you know much about under that scenario. It's a risk/reward proposition. It's not that much different from not signing or drafting a WR or a CB when the depth is less than impressive, let alone some of those starting positions. Of course if they made the decision now they can get Taylor some work at OC to determine if he could back up there.

If you're going to do it, get on with it and give the whoever more work. I think they should but I seriously doubt they will.
 
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I don't think you can look at it that way. A player is more likely to be injured in week 1 than in this truncated camp at which point you would not have a backup you know much about under that scenario. It's a risk/reward proposition.

If you're going to do it, get on with it and give the whoever more work. I think they should but I seriously doubt they will.

You're correct that the risk of a player getting injured in preseason is smaller this year but it has happened in practice a lot of times as well.

You haven't been able to come up with any suggestion on why it would be smarter to move on from Linsley before September 5 though. Even if the front office gains only minimal information from seeing Patrick practice it's better than naming him the starter at this point.
 
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HardRightEdge

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You haven't been able to come up with any suggestion on why it would be smarter to move on from Linsley before September 5 though. Even if the front office gains only minimal information from seeing Patrick practice it's better than naming him the starter at this point.
I just gave a reason. Move on give more work to the backup, work that is in short supply this year. It does not look like that's happening, now or at cutdowns.
 

GB psyco

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I'm not excited about Wagner starting at right tackle either but don't expect any of the draft picks on the offensive line to move past him on the depth chart.

Our Plumber could win the starting spot over Wagner, I have I great feeling about Runyan winning that spot
 
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HardRightEdge

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Our Plumber could win the starting spot over Wagner, I have I great feeling about Runyan winning that spot
I think we'd see Taylor in that spot before Runyan assuming they don't push Turner out there. Even when you have a guy show up in preseason like Jenkins last year the inclination is toward risk aversion and the proven commodity, ergo Taylor got the Week 1 start. Taylor played respectably at LT in the past; Runyan has little opportunity to show up. Some shuffling of the depth chart by Week 1 in past seasons might not materialize until Week 5 this year. Injuries are of course a different matter.
 
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Our Plumber could win the starting spot over Wagner, I have I great feeling about Runyan winning that spot

The Packers didn't sign Wagner to a two-year, $11 million contract to have him immediately replaced by a sixth round pick.
 

PikeBadger

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Heavy competition on the right side of the o-line.
On D it looks like Gary gets a shot to make the 2-4-5 the base defense if he shows well early. Partially explains why they didn’t draft a big DE.
Don’t see any bonafide replacements behind the Smiths and Gary so I’m assuming that the 2-4-5 gets morphed 3-3-5 or 3-4 on majority of downs.
 
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On D it looks like Gary gets a shot to make the 2-4-5 the base defense if he shows well early. Partially explains why they didn’t draft a big DE.
Don’t see any bonafide replacements behind the Smiths and Gary so I’m assuming that the 2-4-5 gets morphed 3-3-5 or 3-4 on majority of downs.

I fully expect the Packers to use only two down linemen as well as two edge rushers for the majority of the snaps on defense this season. Pettine still might have the Smiths and Gary on the field at the same time lining up in that formation.

It will be more interesting to see if the team increases the snap count of their inside linebackers or continue to line up in a dime formation for more than half of the snaps.
 
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HardRightEdge

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It will be more interesting to see if the team increases the snap count of their inside linebackers or continue to line up in a dime formation for more than half of the snaps.
This is another dead horse I'll beat today.

Burnett played ILB in the Capers defense for awhile, installed there to call the signals after Capers and/or McCarthy lost confidence in Martinez handling that job. After that we've seen several safeties playing ILB, Campbell and Greene and other guys whose names I've forgotten.

These guys were playing snaps at the ILB position in nickel and dime and were thereby ILBs, albeit small ones. That's a nickel defense when 5 other guys are playing the DB positions. Using that silly term "dime linebacker" is an oxymoron and confuses the matter.

If a guy is playing an ILB position 5-10 yards deep in the middle of the field and there are 6 other guys playing the DB positions, what you might see in long yardage or prevent, then that ILB is a "dime linebacker". That's the way the term "dime linebacker" has been used for as long as I can remember until the recent corruption.

One example I can think of off the top of my head is Joe Thomas playing that position in long yardage with 6 DBs on the field, something which he pretty much sucked at as receivers crossed his face for the first down. Need 10? They'd get 12. Need 12? They'd get 15. But I digress. I believe this distortion of the term is a media concoction and has confused a lot of people. That said, actual dime defense, typically 4 rush, an ILB in middle drop, and 6 DBs, is not very common. 10% is figure thrown around a lot. Some games it might be rarely seen.

That said, and to your point, the Packers have been on the hunt for a 3-down ILB with ILB dimensions, or close to it, to pair with Martinez and now Kirksey. They resorted to safeties at the position because they were not getting what they wanted from the designated ILB guys. I say this because they have drafted the following guys to play ILB with the following size/speed combinations:

Josh Jones, 6' 1", 220 lbs., 4.41 (a little light but close, bigger than a typical safety)
Burks, 6' 3", 233 lbs., 4.59
Summers, 6'1, 240 lbs., 4.51
Martin, 6'3", 240 - 245 lbs., ? (no runs at the Combine or Pro Day; 4.6?; lower?)

All these guys are/were fast enough to cover TEs and RBs with the size to take on runners. There's probably a 70% snap count, maybe more, for Burks to lose. That's not to say he won't lose them, that neither Martin nor Summers are up to the task, and they default back to Greene for those 75% nickel and dime snaps, assuming he's healthy. Then they will have to figure out which guy fits best for base defense. I don't know if anybody else is a viable candidate for base or 3-down.

But make no mistake. Greene was playing ILB on opening day last year before going to IR and he could be there again if the other guys don't step it up.
 
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H

HardRightEdge

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Greene looks like he has really bulked up.
He's only 5'11", not the kind of size you'd prefer to cover a TE, giving away a lot of catch radius. Burks and Martin at 6'3" have more of the length they are looking for.

But if Greene is the guy who shows the best read-and-react, transitioning from a pass look to run defense and vice versa, something I've seen Burks struggle with since day 1, and he can make up for some of that length deficit by limiting separation better than the other guys, then Greene will get the job for those 75 - 80% nickel/dime snaps. In that case Burks might be the base guy with less to think about and less opportunity to misread.

Martin's an unknown. I liked his tape, but as with all of the rookies in this short offseason there's a big mental hill to climb. If somehow he beats out the other guys for a chunk of snaps week 1, then we've probably got a good, smart player, even if he has to take his rookie lumps along the way.
 
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thequick12

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I think we'd see Taylor in that spot before Runyan assuming they don't push Turner out there. Even when you have a guy show up in preseason like Jenkins last year the inclination is toward risk aversion and the proven commodity, ergo Taylor got the Week 1 start. Taylor played respectably at LT in the past; Runyan has little opportunity to show up. Some shuffling of the depth chart by Week 1 in past seasons might not materialize until Week 5 this year. Injuries are of course a different matter.

I feel like lane Taylor played tackle as a back up due to injury, started a few games I'm pretty sure. And I feel like he did really well. Think it was left tackle but could be mis remembering
 

gopkrs

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I was just talking about his guns. He looks really strong to me. I hope it is true because he played pretty well before he got hurt. No predictions here but that would be good if he can step up. Even better if he is good and someone beats him out. Greene that is.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I feel like lane Taylor played tackle as a back up due to injury, started a few games I'm pretty sure. And I feel like he did really well. Think it was left tackle but could be mis remembering
Sure. He got two starts at LT in 2017. Bakhtiari was injured and then his backup Kyle Murphy went down. I'm not sure he did really well objectively speaking. Respectable might be a better word. We could say he did really well if we qualify it with "under the circumstances".

It was certainly all you could ask from a backup at such a critical and difficult position on short notice with little practice work at the position since entering the pros. He may not have had any work at OT since coming to Green Bay. It was Taylor's first year as a starter taking over at LG for Sitton after his last minute release. Then he had to flip to LT on short notice. I remember the interviews with teammates after that game. They were amazed at how well he did. 2018 was a bit of a down year, 2019 a lost year.

I admit to having a soft spot for Taylor based on those preformances in a pinch. I don't think it is realistic, however, to believe he'll steal a job. I just think he's at the top of the list as an OT backup unless they move Turner out there.

He's a Thomson guy, not a Gutekunst guy. If you thing that doesn't matter you'd be kidding yourself. Gutekunst spent a good draft pick on his future replacement last year then forced him to take a pay cut this year. That tells you something. If Taylor had not accepted the cut he'd surely be gone. He might get cut anyway if those Day 3 guys or a PS guy shows enough. I think that would be difficult in that there is so little experience on this bench and this camp is so short. However, I would not underestimate Gutekunst's evident value placed on this player.

Out of curiosity I looked up what happened to Murphy after the Packers cut him at the end of 2018 after being on IR that season. He's still out there, bouncing from the Rams camp to the Texans' PS in 2019 and to the Texans' camp roster right now as far as I can tell. Dunno if he has any chance of making the roster.
 
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D

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This is another dead horse I'll beat today.

These guys were playing snaps at the ILB position in nickel and dime and were thereby ILBs, albeit small ones. That's a nickel defense when 5 other guys are playing the DB positions. Using that silly term "dime linebacker" is an oxymoron and confuses the matter.

I understand that and probably should have phrased my post better. The fact remains that the Packers hardly used another designated inside linebacker aside of Martinez last year.
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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Not bad for a 2014 5th round pick! The Packers used 10 different offensive linemen this past season but only one center. They fielded six different starting line combinations, but all of them included Corey Linsley in the middle. The fifth-year pro played every offensive snap for the second consecutive season. Dating to the middle of the 2016 season, he has been on the field for 2,484 straight plays. That includes the last 363 snaps of 2016 (including playoffs), all 1,047 snaps of 2017 and all 1,074 snaps of 2018.

I remember when some wanted to call him "injury prone". :rolleyes:


I was horse laughed (may be under a screen name I lost the password for and had to change handles) in training camp 2014 when I posted that Linsley would be the starter coming out of camp. Everyone wanted the converted TE from the Ivy League School who got cut by Cleveland recently...
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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I was horse laughed (may be under a screen name I lost the password for and had to change handles) in training camp 2014 when I posted that Linsley would be the starter coming out of camp. Everyone wanted the converted TE from the Ivy League School who got cut by Cleveland recently...

Are you talking about JC Tretter? He was often injured as a Packer, but he is still with the Browns, although injured right now. He has had a really solid career in the NFL, so not sure what/who you are talking about? Heck, just last November, the Browns signed him to a 3 year, $32.5 million contract extension
 
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Are you talking about JC Tretter? He was often injured as a Packer, but he is still with the Browns, although injured right now. He has had a really solid career in the NFL, so not sure what/who you are talking about? Heck, just last November, the Browns signed him to a 3 year, $32.5 million contract extension
Yeah, he must be talking about Tretter. He came out of Cornell. He's been a good player for Cleveland.

Another fun fact: Tretter is the president of the players association. Remember the rule change whereby if at least 8 OLs are carried on the game day roster the team can carry two extra guys on game day? Something tells me Tretter might have had something to do with pushing that. ;)
 

Mondio

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All things being equal, I would have kept Tretter no questions. Given the scenario the money and the timing favored Linsley, I still think Tretter is the better player
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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Are you talking about JC Tretter? He was often injured as a Packer, but he is still with the Browns, although injured right now. He has had a really solid career in the NFL, so not sure what/who you are talking about? Heck, just last November, the Browns signed him to a 3 year, $32.5 million contract extension


But when he and Linsley were rookies I said Linsley would start and everyone gave me sh**
 
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HardRightEdge

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I was horse laughed (may be under a screen name I lost the password for and had to change handles) in training camp 2014 when I posted that Linsley would be the starter coming out of camp. Everyone wanted the converted TE from the Ivy League School who got cut by Cleveland recently...
I can tell that was emblazoned in you memory since you couldn't remember Tretter's name. ;) Many of us liked Tretter.

Besides being a money move--Tretter signed with Cleveland for 3 years/16.7 mil while Linsley had a year left on his rookie deal--Tretter was coming off IR and knee surgery. Going with Linsley was the right move.
 

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