calvin johnson to aaron rodgers what randy moss could have been to brett favre

[Deleted member 6794]

Solid number two receivers don't put up 997 yards and 12 TDs in a season like Adams did in just his third year.

He's already played better than the ceiling you just put him at.

There´s no denying Adams was the Packers #2 receiver last season and has yet to prove to be capable of excelling while being on top of the depth chart at the position though.

 

[Carl]

There´s no denying Adams was the Packers #2 receiver last season and has yet to prove to be capable of excelling while being on top of the depth chart at the position though.

Yet to prove it, but there is no reason to believe he has peaked like Patriot believes.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Solid number two receivers don't put up 997 yards and 12 TDs in a season like Adams did in just his third year.

He's already played better than the ceiling you just put him at.

With Aaron Rodgers as a QB and a very good #1, they do.

Rishard Matthews in TN was very close to those numbers, and what do you consider him?

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Im not knocking Johnson in any way... But I am now convinced that if you were a GM you would be ready to offer Walter Payton a 100M contract to come back and play for the Packers despite the fact that he is no longer with us.

Good one...

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Are you working out with CJ? How do you know how fast he is, now - seeing he hasn't played in over a year?

If TT looked at only the current season the Packers would be a 500 level team. Thankfully, every decision be makes is for the long term good of the team.

I totally agree with this. I have agreed with your first statement since I read it... And I agree fully that we don't need johnson.

But I hold a few names higher than others. Favre,Barry, Peterson, moss, Calvin, Rodgers. That's the level I see Calvin Johnson in.
And Calvin hasn't had any major injuries. Just nagging small injuries lately... what better than to take a year off to fully heal the body and the soul. Come back fresh with better perspective.

I put it like this. Would I rather have Calvin Johnson at 31, or Randall Cobb?

My conclusion was that dropping Cobb would Basicly pay for 1 year of Calvin Johnson. And with the hoard of young talented wrs we have. I would feel comfortable moving on from Cobb and Calvin after the one year.

And give a real run at a Superbowl.

That's not a Ted Thompson move though.

 

[Sky King]

That's not a Ted Thompson move though.

There's your dagger.

 

[Carl]

With Aaron Rodgers as a QB and a very good #1, they do.

Rishard Matthews in TN was very close to those numbers, and what do you consider him?

Don't know enough about Matthews to have an opinion.

What is it about Adams that makes you think he has peaked?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yet to prove it, but there is no reason to believe he has peaked like Patriot believes.

It´s true that Adams is still an ascending player but I´m not convinced he will ever turn into an elite #1 receiver in the NFL.

I put it like this. Would I rather have Calvin Johnson at 31, or Randall Cobb?

My conclusion was that dropping Cobb would Basicly pay for 1 year of Calvin Johnson.

I highly doubt Johnson would agree to play for $6.5 million this season.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

There´s no denying Adams was the Packers #2 receiver last season and has yet to prove to be capable of excelling while being on top of the depth chart at the position though.

I remember when people said the exact same thing about Nelson, in respects to if he could succeed without Jennings taking the attentions of the #1 corners.

 

[Mondio]

anyone who couldn't see the difference between year 1 Adams and year 2 Adams, and then year 2 Adams to year 3 Adams is not qualified to hold a valid opinion What we saw in year 3 looked like the growth of a talented but raw receiver we saw in year 1. I think there is more in his tank. Year 2 we saw a guy that couldn't break, cut, stop, start like we did in years 1 and 3. year 2 people were saying nobody could beat man coverage. Year 3 in one step he has DB's turned in circles at times. The ability is there people. I wasn't sold after year 1. Year 3 showed me this kid has it. he's not done getting better either. The only thing he needs now is no more lapses in focus while catching the ball. He has room to grow and it has very little to do with Jordy Nelson. Adams turned around enough good DB's last year to know he can beat whoever is covering him.

 

[Sky King]

Adams won me over last year with his performance and I was one of his harshest critics during season 2. His footwork was outstanding. Like Mondio, I believe we may see even more upside from him.

 

[AmishMafia]

anyone who couldn't see the difference between year 1 Adams and year 2 Adams, and then year 2 Adams to year 3 Adams is not qualified to hold a valid opinion What we saw in year 3 looked like the growth of a talented but raw receiver we saw in year 1. I think there is more in his tank. Year 2 we saw a guy that couldn't break, cut, stop, start like we did in years 1 and 3. year 2 people were saying nobody could beat man coverage. Year 3 in one step he has DB's turned in circles at times. The ability is there people. I wasn't sold after year 1. Year 3 showed me this kid has it. he's not done getting better either. The only thing he needs now is no more lapses in focus while catching the ball. He has room to grow and it has very little to do with Jordy Nelson. Adams turned around enough good DB's last year to know he can beat whoever is covering him.

Jordy and James Jones both started their careers slowly. No need to think Adams cant get better. At this point of his career he is better than Jordy and Jones. Although Wimm pessimistically pointed out he has yet to prove he can be a strong #1 option, I don't see any reason to think he can't get there. Strong good hands, athletic, great routes, understands the game, works hard and has steadily gotten better. No player is guarranteed to be great, you have to take risks as a GM. Seems to me Adams is a fairly good bet.

 

[thequick12]

I totally agree with this. I have agreed with your first statement since I read it... And I agree fully that we don't need johnson.

But I hold a few names higher than others. Favre,Barry, Peterson, moss, Calvin, Rodgers. That's the level I see Calvin Johnson in.
And Calvin hasn't had any major injuries. Just nagging small injuries lately... what better than to take a year off to fully heal the body and the soul. Come back fresh with better perspective.

I put it like this. Would I rather have Calvin Johnson at 31, or Randall Cobb?

My conclusion was that dropping Cobb would Basicly pay for 1 year of Calvin Johnson. And with the hoard of young talented wrs we have. I would feel comfortable moving on from Cobb and Calvin after the one year.

And give a real run at a Superbowl.

That's not a Ted Thompson move though.

I think if you're TT and you take a shot on Calvin Johnson you add him and keep Cobb in 2017. You roll will Johnson as your one Nelson as your 2 Adams/Cobb as the 3/4. If Adams is the 3 Nelson moves into slot. If Cobb is on the field as the 3 he's the slot. If you're in a 4 wr set you got Johnson and Adams outside with Cobb and Nelson in the slots. It would be unstoppable. As things stand right now I think the packers offense is gonna be historic this season anyways but with Johnson it'd wouldn't even be fair

 

[AmishMafia]

I think if you're TT and you take a shot on Calvin Johnson you add him and keep Cobb in 2017. You roll will Johnson as your one Nelson as your 2 Adams/Cobb as the 3/4. If Adams is the 3 Nelson moves into slot. If Cobb is on the field as the 3 he's the slot. If you're in a 4 wr set you got Johnson and Adams outside with Cobb and Nelson in the slots. It would be unstoppable. As things stand right now I think the packers offense is gonna be historic this season anyways but with Johnson it'd wouldn't even be fair

There is a reason CJ retired. And it was not because he was dominating too much.

 

[PackAttack12]

I think if you're TT and you take a shot on Calvin Johnson you add him and keep Cobb in 2017. You roll will Johnson as your one Nelson as your 2 Adams/Cobb as the 3/4. If Adams is the 3 Nelson moves into slot. If Cobb is on the field as the 3 he's the slot. If you're in a 4 wr set you got Johnson and Adams outside with Cobb and Nelson in the slots. It would be unstoppable. As things stand right now I think the packers offense is gonna be historic this season anyways but with Johnson it'd wouldn't even be fair

Given that you feel the offense will be historic this season, spending additional resources on Calvin Johnson is utterly senseless, given the glaring deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I remember when people said the exact same thing about Nelson, in respects to if he could succeed without Jennings taking the attentions of the #1 corners.

While it´s true the same thing was said about Nelson a lot of solid #2 receivers weren´t able to excel while being on top of the depth chart.

Although Wimm pessimistically pointed out he has yet to prove he can be a strong #1 option, I don't see any reason to think he can't get there.

I have no idea why you felt it was necessary to single out my comment as I clearly stated that Adams is an ascending player and have been supportive of him even while he struggled in 2015. There´s no denying he has yet to prove of being capable to turn into a #1 receiver though.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

While it´s true the same thing was said about Nelson a lot of solid #2 receivers weren´t able to excel while being on top of the depth chart [...] I clearly stated that Adams is an ascending player and have been supportive of him even while he struggled in 2015. There´s no denying he has yet to prove of being capable to turn into a #1 receiver though.

Do you feel he has shown the skills and attributes required of a #1, and just needs to perform in the actual situation, or are there facets of his performance which lead you to question whether he can perform thus?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I missed this thread when it started, but had fun reading it.

If Johnson does decide to come out of retirement, he gets released immediately by the Lions. The Lions have about $8M in cap space and his $16M cap hit would kick in, giving them no choice but to release him. Johnson wouldn't come back to play for the Lions and I doubt he gives them a chance to decide where he goes, so basically he forces their hand to cut him by sending a letter to the NFL to be reinstated. Also, I doubt there are many, if any, teams willing to trade for a guy that has been out of the league for a year AND pick up his $16M contract.

Second. Why would the Packers even consider signing Johnson? As many pointed out, they are more than set at WR and the last thing they need is the distraction of trying to fit Megatron into their offense and getting his timing down with AR.

Third, the Packers have the money, but why spend it on a position of no need? If they were going to spend some money, beside on the obvious, extending current players contracts, the smart move would be on defense and trying to swing a deal for a quality CB or OLB.

If Megatron comes back, he won't be in GB and I am guessing he will be playing for less than the $16M the Lions would have had to pay him.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

I missed this thread when it started, but had fun reading it.

If Johnson does decide to come out of retirement, he gets released immediately by the Lions. The Lions have about $8M in cap space and his $16M cap hit would kick in, giving them no choice but to release him. Johnson wouldn't come back to play for the Lions and I doubt he gives them a chance to decide where he goes, so basically he forces their hand to cut him by sending a letter to the NFL to be reinstated. Also, I doubt there are many, if any, teams willing to trade for a guy that has been out of the league for a year AND pick up his $16M contract.

Second. Why would the Packers even consider signing Johnson? As many pointed out, they are more than set at WR and the last thing they need is the distraction of trying to fit Megatron into their offense and getting his timing down with AR.

Third, the Packers have the money, but why spend it on a position of no need? If they were going to spend some money, beside on the obvious, extending current players contracts, the smart move would be on defense and trying to swing a deal for a quality CB or OLB.

If Megatron comes back, he won't be in GB and I am guessing he will be playing for less than the $16M the Lions would have had to pay him.

What?! No opinion on the great Mars vs Venus debate of 2017? (debate possibly neither great nor a debate, results may vary, consult your local oncologist for advice)

 

[thequick12]

anyone who couldn't see the difference between year 1 Adams and year 2 Adams, and then year 2 Adams to year 3 Adams is not qualified to hold a valid opinion What we saw in year 3 looked like the growth of a talented but raw receiver we saw in year 1. I think there is more in his tank. Year 2 we saw a guy that couldn't break, cut, stop, start like we did in years 1 and 3. year 2 people were saying nobody could beat man coverage. Year 3 in one step he has DB's turned in circles at times. The ability is there people. I wasn't sold after year 1. Year 3 showed me this kid has it. he's not done getting better either. The only thing he needs now is no more lapses in focus while catching the ball. He has room to grow and it has very little to do with Jordy Nelson. Adams turned around enough good DB's last year to know he can beat whoever is covering him.

I don't know if it was otas or training camp but it was shortly after Adams was drafted. A clip was posted of him running a route on Casey Hayward and Adams was so incredibly smooth and fluid he turned Hayward in a complete circle on like a 10 yard route. That's when I thought ok this dude is Greg Jennings replacement as the super smooth expert route runner in this offense. Prior to that I had thought he was more in the James Jones mold, I was wrong

 

[thequick12]

There is a reason CJ retired. And it was not because he was dominating too much.

Are you for real dude? The guy is a hall of famer and he played for the lions. So despite playing for the lions he put up 88 catches for 1214 yards 13.8 and 9 touchdowns with Stafford as his quarterback, and no other legitimate receiving or rushing threat. Also he was being covered by a corner and a safety over the top generally. The year prior he had 71 for 1077 15.2 and 8 in 13 games. Year prior to that 84 for 1492 17.8 and 12 in 14 games. So I'm not sure what your definition of dominating is ?

 

[AmishMafia]

Are you for real dude? The guy is a hall of famer and he played for the lions. So despite playing for the lions he put up 88 catches for 1214 yards 13.8 and 9 touchdowns with Stafford as his quarterback, and no other legitimate receiving or rushing threat. Also he was being covered by a corner and a safety over the top generally. The year prior he had 71 for 1077 15.2 and 8 in 13 games. Year prior to that 84 for 1492 17.8 and 12 in 14 games. So I'm not sure what your definition of dominating is ?

He retired because of pain. He had a difficult time recovering after each game. He said early in his career he was fine 2 days after a game, but the final 2 years he could barely walk for 2 days let alone have the pain subside before the next game. He is tall and carries 230 lbs - the guy's knees took a beating.

Not sure why you think Stafford sucks. He has a hell of an arm.

I have never argued that CJ was not great at one time. I even agree he would help the team. But the improvement he would provide is negligible. Maybe this will help you. In 85% of plays, with jordy, Adams, Bennett, Cobb, and Montgommery someone will be open. Now substitute CJ for Cobb and that may increase to 85.5%. That just isn't worth $15m. Besides, im not sure there is any improvenent. Cobb is a different type of receiver whose skills can attack a defense that all those others I listed cannot do. The other 3 are better receivers right now than CJ.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you feel he has shown the skills and attributes required of a #1, and just needs to perform in the actual situation, or are there facets of his performance which lead you to question whether he can perform thus?

I believe that Adams definitely possesses the skills necessary to develop into a decent #1 receiver but there have been talented WRs before that weren´t able to excel while being on the top of the depth chart at the position. Therefore I´m bit cautious about it.

 

[AmishMafia]

I believe that Adams definitely possesses the skills necessary to develop into a decent #1 receiver but there have been talented WRs before that weren´t able to excel while being on the top of the depth chart at the position. Therefore I´m bit cautious about it.

I'm wondering if Adams surpasses Nelson this season. Other things to note:
Improvement: He appears to have taken another step.
Work: Looks like he worked hard over the off-season, hes in great shape
Leadership: love to see him talking with King and hearing he helps young DBs in film study
Demeanor: he always looks serious he considers himself a professional

Physical tools and skills he has nothing holding him back and as you point out, many similar players don't evolve into great WRs. The reason is lack of work and focus. These are two areas I see Adams excelling in for the reasons cited above. I think it is likely at this point that Adams becomes an even bigger part of this offense.

 

[thequick12]

Given that you feel the offense will be historic this season, spending additional resources on Calvin Johnson is utterly senseless, given the glaring deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball.

Here's the thing historic might not be good enough it wasn't in 2011. So if you have the chance you sign a Calvin Johnson and try to make your offense so good it can make up for those defensive deficiencies.