Bucks v. Pacers

Heyjoe4

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Like I said. If they didn't break it down now the following things would happen.l

1. They'd have to pay a luxury tax of anywhere from $65 million up to $75 or $80 million in luxury tax for keeping the team together.
2. They're going to lose Crowder, Beasley, and Beverley for openers. None of the three will be affordable, consider cap restraints.
3. They will only be able to bring in minimum salary players. Nobody who has any relative value can be added to the team, despite losses.
4. Next year is Lillard's last year under contract. He walks away, a free agent, and the Bucks would get nothing.
5. Age. Take a look at the age of all the players the Bucks would rely on during the upcoming season. It's an old age team for the NBA.
6. Giannis only has 2 years left that he has to stay in Milwaukee. He can opt out in two-years, and the Bucks would get squat.

Not one thing points towards this team making a run at a championship next year. Making matters worse, with no draft picks for years, the only hope the Bucks have of even fielding a team that's not competitive is to regain draft picks by trading the best players on the team to get at least something in return. If they don't, it's going to be a 20-30 win team for the next decade.


Like I said. If they didn't break it down now the following things would happen.l

1. They'd have to pay a luxury tax of anywhere from $65 million up to $75 or $80 million in luxury tax for keeping the team together.
2. They're going to lose Crowder, Beasley, and Beverley for openers. None of the three will be affordable, consider cap restraints.
3. They will only be able to bring in minimum salary players. Nobody who has any relative value can be added to the team, despite losses.
4. Next year is Lillard's last year under contract. He walks away, a free agent, and the Bucks would get nothing.
5. Age. Take a look at the age of all the players the Bucks would rely on during the upcoming season. It's an old age team for the NBA.
6. Giannis only has 2 years left that he has to stay in Milwaukee. He can opt out in two-years, and the Bucks would get squat.

Not one thing points towards this team making a run at a championship next year. Making matters worse, with no draft picks for years, the only hope the Bucks have of even fielding a team that's not competitive is to regain draft picks by trading the best players on the team to get at least something in return. If they don't, it's going to be a 20-30 win team for the next decade.

The Bucks will bring back the starters from this team, along with Rivers, give them a full offseason to prepare, and make another run at a title, or past the first round of the playoffs..... Rebuilding the team now makes no sense. And while a title is a long shot, the entire fan base would go away if they overreacted and tore this team down.

They do need to find better bench players, and good luck with that. The team certainly is old, even Giannis is turning 30. They get another chance to make things right. I'm a fan, and I wish them the best.
 

Sanguine camper

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As I said a year ago, the Bucks are hopelessly old with no draft picks. The Giannis era is as good as done. They won't get much for the old guys like Middleton but trading Lillard can hopefully still net them a 1rst round pick given his contract situation. It's also time to trade Giannis for at least two first rounders and a good young player. I'd keep whatever young talent the Bucks have under 27 years old and add the 3 draft picks and a good young player in the Giannis trade.

The Bucks need to start the rebuilding process now. Will they? Nope. They'll settle for mediocrity and early exits from the playoffs rather than bite the bullet. Trading away Lillard and Giannis is the only avenue to becoming competitive team again years down the road.

It's only going to get worse if they continue on the present course of trotting out a geriatric roster that can't cover the perimeter. Let's face it, the Bucks are finished.
 

Voyageur

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As I said a year ago, the Bucks are hopelessly old with no draft picks. The Giannis era is as good as done. They won't get much for the old guys like Middleton but trading Lillard can hopefully still net them a 1rst round pick given his contract situation. It's also time to trade Giannis for at least two first rounders and a good young player. I'd keep whatever young talent the Bucks have under 27 years old and add the 3 draft picks and a good young player in the Giannis trade.

The Bucks need to start the rebuilding process now. Will they? Nope. They'll settle for mediocrity and early exits from the playoffs rather than bite the bullet. Trading away Lillard and Giannis is the only avenue to becoming competitive team again years down the road.

It's only going to get worse if they continue on the present course of trotting out a geriatric roster that can't cover the perimeter. Let's face it, the Bucks are finished.
Yup! Over the last two years, they traded themselves out of contention, and the owners are paying the 3rd highest luxury tax in the league. No way they should want to keep going in this direction. If they do, they could play their games in a phone booth, for all the attendance they'll have if they end up a bottom feeder without picks.
 

Heyjoe4

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Yup! Over the last two years, they traded themselves out of contention, and the owners are paying the 3rd highest luxury tax in the league. No way they should want to keep going in this direction. If they do, they could play their games in a phone booth, for all the attendance they'll have if they end up a bottom feeder without picks.
Good article in the JS about Kris M. He very quietly does a lot for the Bucks. It gets overshadowed by Giannis, and now Lillard, and his own injury history which is detailed in the article. Amazing guy and we're fortunate he's a Buck.

He gets a full offseason for the first time in a long time, and the Bucks will get a chance to have a full camp with Rivers and the players. The NBA has gotten very competitive and very young. These Bucks may not have another title in them, but they'll go down swinging.

 

Voyageur

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Good article in the JS about Kris M. He very quietly does a lot for the Bucks. It gets overshadowed by Giannis, and now Lillard, and his own injury history which is detailed in the article. Amazing guy and we're fortunate he's a Buck.

He gets a full offseason for the first time in a long time, and the Bucks will get a chance to have a full camp with Rivers and the players. The NBA has gotten very competitive and very young. These Bucks may not have another title in them, but they'll go down swinging.

What gets me is how many people think Middleton needs to be traded to make the team better. You can't get a lot for him because of age, but what he can give the Bucks is a tremendous game. He's always been a team player, and never demanded the spotlight be on him.

Way too often, people don't recognize the value of a player, because they don't see the nuances of the game. It's why I've been saying from the start, he's an important part of any equation the Bucks have, for moving forward next year. Trading him, as if he didn't matter, is purely stupid!

This is why way too many fans don't really understand the game. They see what they see on individual plays, but they don't see everything that goes into making the team successful. If anyone needs to go, it's Lillard. He does not bring any defense to the table. Also, Giannis needs to have his game controlled, so he doesn't think he needs to be a one-man attack force that scores all the points. They need to have more movement, and share the rock better.
 

Heyjoe4

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What gets me is how many people think Middleton needs to be traded to make the team better. You can't get a lot for him because of age, but what he can give the Bucks is a tremendous game. He's always been a team player, and never demanded the spotlight be on him.

Way too often, people don't recognize the value of a player, because they don't see the nuances of the game. It's why I've been saying from the start, he's an important part of any equation the Bucks have, for moving forward next year. Trading him, as if he didn't matter, is purely stupid!

This is why way too many fans don't really understand the game. They see what they see on individual plays, but they don't see everything that goes into making the team successful. If anyone needs to go, it's Lillard. He does not bring any defense to the table. Also, Giannis needs to have his game controlled, so he doesn't think he needs to be a one-man attack force that scores all the points. They need to have more movement, and share the rock better.
All good points V, especially about Kris M. I know I take his play for granted. And part of the problem with an old team is that few of these guys have much trade value, with the exception of Giannis.
'
It's important to remember that Horst got the Bucks the talent they needed for their first title in 50 years. In pro sports, it's incredibly difficult to win a championship. And ironically, the difference was the trade Horst made for Holiday. No Holiday, no title IMO.

That makes the trade for Lillard a puzzle. I do think Coach Bud had to go after the Miami debacle, but the other changes, specifically trading for Lillard, just didn't make sense.

It is what it is. Almost everything that could go wrong this past season went wrong. Right or wrong, Horst and the fans need to give these starters (I'm sure the bench will be changed) and Rivers a chance at a full offseason. Rivers needs to make it his team, and that means finding a way to get these starters to play complementary BB.

I don't much care for this version of the Bucks as far as title contenders, and for all the reasons stated on this thread. Even so, gotta play these cards and at least have a deep playoff run. The talent is certainly there. One more season, and then it seems likely there will be some lean years ahead. That's the price of going all in on a championship, and then breaking that team up too soon.
 

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As long as Lillard is there, we can forget about any run next season. He needs to go. He doesn't play defense at all, and he doesn't like to give up the ball. Holiday was a real breath of fresh air. A guy who led them on defense, and got movement from everyone, because he helped them get shots.

People are mistaken about how brought Giannis to the Bucks. It was John Hammond who did it, not Horst. In fact, Horst left the Bucks for a year and ended up in Detroit, and was offered the Bucks GM job after Hammond. From what I've heard, the Pistons were more than happy to let him go. And, by the way, the same week that the Bucks signed Giannis, he negotiated the trade sending Jennings to the Pistons and got Middleton in return, along with two other players who didn't matter. Even that was Hammond, not Horst. People don't seem to understand that.

Here's a listing of the Horst draft picks. Not exactly a shining example of success.

  • D.J. Wilson, 21 years old, at 17th overall in 2017
  • Sterling Brown, 22 years old, at 48th overall in 2017 (Acquired from the Philadelphia 76ers)
  • Donte DiVincenzo, 21 years old, at 17th overall in 2018
  • Jordan Nwora, 22 years old, at 45th overall in 2020 (Acquired from the Orlando Magic)
  • Sam Merrill, 25 years old, at 60th overall in 2020 (Acquired as part of the four-team trade that helped the Bucks land Holiday)
  • Sandro Mamukelashvili, 22 years old, at 54th overall in 2021
  • Georgios Kalaitzakis, 22 years old, at 60th overall in 2021 (Acquired from the Indiana Pacers)

Since then, Beauchamp & Livingston.


It's a horrible run. The only one of real value was DiVincenzo, and he traded him away.

Nope! Nothing Horst has done tells me he belongs in his job.
 

Heyjoe4

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And with that I will bring a full stop to commenting on last season.

As long as Lillard is there, we can forget about any run next season. He needs to go. He doesn't play defense at all, and he doesn't like to give up the ball. Holiday was a real breath of fresh air. A guy who led them on defense, and got movement from everyone, because he helped them get shots.

People are mistaken about how brought Giannis to the Bucks. It was John Hammond who did it, not Horst. In fact, Horst left the Bucks for a year and ended up in Detroit, and was offered the Bucks GM job after Hammond. From what I've heard, the Pistons were more than happy to let him go. And, by the way, the same week that the Bucks signed Giannis, he negotiated the trade sending Jennings to the Pistons and got Middleton in return, along with two other players who didn't matter. Even that was Hammond, not Horst. People don't seem to understand that.

Here's a listing of the Horst draft picks. Not exactly a shining example of success.

  • . Wilson, 21 years old, at 17th overall in 2017
  • Sterling Brown, 22 years old, at 48th overall in 2017 (Acquired from the Philadelphia 76ers)
  • Donte DiVincenzo, 21 years old, at 17th overall in 2018
  • Jordan Nwora, 22 years old, at 45th overall in 2020 (Acquired from the Orlando Magic)
  • Sam Merrill, 25 years old, at 60th overall in 2020 (Acquired as part of the four-team trade that helped the Bucks land Holiday)
  • Sandro Mamukelashvili, 22 years old, at 54th overall in 2021
  • Georgios Kalaitzakis, 22 years old, at 60th overall in 2021 (Acquired from the Indiana Pacers)

Since then, Beauchamp & Livingston.


It's a horrible run. The only one of real value was DiVincenzo, and he traded him away.

Nope! Nothing Horst has
As long as Lillard is there, we can forget about any run next season. He needs to go. He doesn't play defense at all, and he doesn't like to give up the ball. Holiday was a real breath of fresh air. A guy who led them on defense, and got movement from everyone, because he helped them get shots.

People are mistaken about how brought Giannis to the Bucks. It was John Hammond who did it, not Horst. In fact, Horst left the Bucks for a year and ended up in Detroit, and was offered the Bucks GM job after Hammond. From what I've heard, the Pistons were more than happy to let him go. And, by the way, the same week that the Bucks signed Giannis, he negotiated the trade sending Jennings to the Pistons and got Middleton in return, along with two other players who didn't matter. Even that was Hammond, not Horst. People don't seem to understand that.

Here's a listing of the Horst draft picks. Not exactly a shining example of success.

  • D.J. Wilson, 21 years old, at 17th overall in 2017
  • Sterling Brown, 22 years old, at 48th overall in 2017 (Acquired from the Philadelphia 76ers)
  • Donte DiVincenzo, 21 years old, at 17th overall in 2018
  • Jordan Nwora, 22 years old, at 45th overall in 2020 (Acquired from the Orlando Magic)
  • Sam Merrill, 25 years old, at 60th overall in 2020 (Acquired as part of the four-team trade that helped the Bucks land Holiday)
  • Sandro Mamukelashvili, 22 years old, at 54th overall in 2021
  • Georgios Kalaitzakis, 22 years old, at 60th overall in 2021 (Acquired from the Indiana Pacers)

Since then, Beauchamp & Livingston.


It's a horrible run. The only one of real value was DiVincenzo, and he traded him away.

Nope! Nothing Horst has done tells me he belongs in his job.
Gotta disagree here V. No Horst, no Holiday, no championship. How soon we forget. I get that last year was disappointing, as was the year before, but emotions shouldn't get in the way of common sense. Lillard isn't going anywhere, and this team still has a lot of talent. It has to be organized and pointed in the right direction. But all these long explanations of why Horst is now the worst thing to ever happen to the Bucks come across as sour grapes. The Bucks will be better next season and will get past the first round of the playoffs. Doesn't sound like much but it is. I still feel the satisfaction of bringing a championship back to Milwaukee. That's it for me and what I have to say about the Bucks until October. On to the Packers!
 

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